3.24/172 reapplying

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wacomph
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3.24/172 reapplying

Postby wacomph » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:47 pm

Applied early last cycle with 3.08/172, did fairly well. Taking the next 1-2 years off to work for a very well-known company, in a finance/marketing role.

After finishing my senior year, my GPA went up to a 3.24. Haven't retaken LSAT but considering it. Curious regarding my chances at T14 schools. I did surprisingly well last time around, one T14 acceptance, one offer of deferral from a top 10, one half scholly at a T20, along with a few other non-noteworthy acceptances before I withdrew the rest of my applications.

Upward grade trend, GPA addendum that I've been told is "highly effective". Let me know!

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: 3.24/172 reapplying

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:55 pm

I wouldn't say that an upward GPA trend is "highly effective" considering that the final GPA is what a school is reporting for ranking purposes, but I wouldn't discount it entirely. And IMHO only, any positive effect of a GPA addendum is negligible at best.

As for the matter of re-taking the LSAT, was the 172 on the low end of your PT spectrum, on the upper end or about right? If you were PTing at 176-180, I would say retake. If 172 was about right or a welcome surprise, I wouldn't retake.

TheZoid
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Re: 3.24/172 reapplying

Postby TheZoid » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:03 pm

I think he was saying that the addendum was highly effective not the GPA trend. True, it doesn't mean all that much, it's still a low GPA relatively speaking, but I would still submit it if you have some good reasons.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: 3.24/172 reapplying

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:19 pm

TheZoid wrote:I think he was saying that the addendum was highly effective not the GPA trend. True, it doesn't mean all that much, it's still a low GPA relatively speaking, but I would still submit it if you have some good reasons.

I rarely see addenda that contain a "good" reason for a low GPA/low LSAT. Elaborate excuses, however, are quite plentiful.

wacomph
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Re: 3.24/172 reapplying

Postby wacomph » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:21 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:
TheZoid wrote:I think he was saying that the addendum was highly effective not the GPA trend. True, it doesn't mean all that much, it's still a low GPA relatively speaking, but I would still submit it if you have some good reasons.

I rarely see addenda that contain a "good" reason for a low GPA/low LSAT. Elaborate excuses, however, are quite plentiful.


I never said it was a "good reason". All I said was that I've been told that it's "highly effective". Take that as you may.

I'm mostly more interested in people estimating my chances at T14 schools, given this is the "What are my chances?" board...

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: 3.24/172 reapplying

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:29 pm

wacomph wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:
TheZoid wrote:I think he was saying that the addendum was highly effective not the GPA trend. True, it doesn't mean all that much, it's still a low GPA relatively speaking, but I would still submit it if you have some good reasons.

I rarely see addenda that contain a "good" reason for a low GPA/low LSAT. Elaborate excuses, however, are quite plentiful.


I never said it was a "good reason". All I said was that I've been told that it's "highly effective". Take that as you may.

I'm mostly more interested in people estimating my chances at T14 schools, given this is the "What are my chances?" board...

Right, but splitters are inherently tough to estimate, which could be a reason why you don't have much activity ITT. Some in the T14 have GPA floors, while others are more splitter-friendly. For splitters, it's quite the crapshoot.

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Samara
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Re: 3.24/172 reapplying

Postby Samara » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:29 pm

Not to be glib, but why don't you think this cycle will see the same results? A 3.24 and a 3.08 are essentially the same since they are both below the GPA floors of any T14.

Also, why didn't you take the deferral?

wacomph
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Re: 3.24/172 reapplying

Postby wacomph » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:40 pm

Samara wrote:Not to be glib, but why don't you think this cycle will see the same results? A 3.24 and a 3.08 are essentially the same since they are both below the GPA floors of any T14.

Also, why didn't you take the deferral?


I'm thinking that quality work experience will help. And, forgive me, but I think that 3.24 and 3.08 are most definitely not the same. That's a .16 difference, which seems more than enough to have it matter. Also, a 3.24 is closer to a B+ than a B average, which you cannot say for a 3.08. It's not a huge difference, but I think it's significant.

I didn't take the deferral because I just wasn't ready to go to law school. The economy was (and still is) freaking me out a bit, so I figured that if I could get in once, a couple of years of post-grad work experience would allow me to at least get back to what I got before.

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Samara
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Re: 3.24/172 reapplying

Postby Samara » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:01 pm

wacomph wrote:
Samara wrote:Not to be glib, but why don't you think this cycle will see the same results? A 3.24 and a 3.08 are essentially the same since they are both below the GPA floors of any T14.

Also, why didn't you take the deferral?


I'm thinking that quality work experience will help. And, forgive me, but I think that 3.24 and 3.08 are most definitely not the same. That's a .16 difference, which seems more than enough to have it matter. Also, a 3.24 is closer to a B+ than a B average, which you cannot say for a 3.08. It's not a huge difference, but I think it's significant.

I didn't take the deferral because I just wasn't ready to go to law school. The economy was (and still is) freaking me out a bit, so I figured that if I could get in once, a couple of years of post-grad work experience would allow me to at least get back to what I got before.

Oops, didn't read the OP closely enough, turning down the deferral makes sense. Yeah, gaining a year or two of solid WE should only improve your results in this cycle or next and would open up NU as a virtual lock.

Also, sorry, the difference between 3.24 and 3.08 for the T14 is almost non-existent. Check out LSN if you don't believe me. It's far overshadowed by softs, LSAT scores and such. If they are dipping below their GPA floor, they aren't admitting you because they like your academic performance. They're admitting you because of some other reason. So, why would the difference in GPA matter? By admitting you, they're basically saying "We're going to ignore your GPA because we like these other things in your application."

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: 3.24/172 reapplying

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:15 pm

Samara is the splitter king, but I'm gonna disagree here just a bit. T6 is still out, but that gpa bump could have an impact at Penn and Michigan. Fewer apps will also help.

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Samara
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Re: 3.24/172 reapplying

Postby Samara » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:19 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:Samara is the splitter king, but I'm gonna disagree here just a bit. T6 is still out, but that gpa bump could have an impact at Penn and Michigan. Fewer apps will also help.

Ehh, I don't know. If you look at the last two cycles for Michigan, once you're below 3.35, it's a crapshoot. Oddly enough, it actually seems a little more favorable towards applicants in the 3.0-3.15 range than the 3.15-3.35 range. Previous cycles showed a slightly more "normal" distribution, but this cycle should mimic the last two (without knowing what Michigan did/will do with class sizes).

Penn is the same way. There's a black hole of waitlist in the 172-175/3.2-3.4 range. But hey, get on a bunch of waitlists, have an extra LOR or something to send with a LOCI, and you should get a couple T14s to bite.

Who knows how much of that waitlist black hole is self-selection. There could be something common among splitters in that range that makes them less attractive. I think the WE will have a larger impact than the GPA increase.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: 3.24/172 reapplying

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:14 pm

Samara wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Samara is the splitter king, but I'm gonna disagree here just a bit. T6 is still out, but that gpa bump could have an impact at Penn and Michigan. Fewer apps will also help.

Ehh, I don't know. If you look at the last two cycles for Michigan, once you're below 3.35, it's a crapshoot. Oddly enough, it actually seems a little more favorable towards applicants in the 3.0-3.15 range than the 3.15-3.35 range. Previous cycles showed a slightly more "normal" distribution, but this cycle should mimic the last two (without knowing what Michigan did/will do with class sizes).

Penn is the same way. There's a black hole of waitlist in the 172-175/3.2-3.4 range. But hey, get on a bunch of waitlists, have an extra LOR or something to send with a LOCI, and you should get a couple T14s to bite.

Who knows how much of that waitlist black hole is self-selection. There could be something common among splitters in that range that makes them less attractive. I think the WE will have a larger impact than the GPA increase.


I agree with all of this. Still well outside of the safe range, but a bit further into the acceptable range. I'd think Northwestern is a pretty safe bet, but I'd say ED Penn or Michigan if you like one of them the most.

Edit: Further review of LSN suggest the bump really only has an impact at Penn. With an ED I almost like the odds.




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