3.73 167 Cornell, Michigan, Penn Forum

[Lady in Red]

I really love these three schools. The law school calculator gave me a 70% chance for Cornell. I'm between the 25th percentile and the median for LSAT, and I'm just above the median GPA. I would think that would mean I have a good shot, but the posts I've been reading on this forum suggest otherwise. I know the calculator generates overly optimistic results, so at this point, I don't know what to think.

I'm one point below Michigan's 25th percentile LSAT and two points below the median LSAT score. But the Michigan website points out that there is very little statistical difference between my 167 and their median 169. Am I kidding myself when I cross my fingers and hope that they'll love me as much as I love them? I'm a non-URM female with 8 years of experience teaching English.

Penn is my least likely shot, according to the calculator and their medians.

If I'm kidding myself by looking at these schools, please be honest. I'm scared to retake the LSAT because Sarah Zearfoss wrote that anyone with a 165 or higher is statistically likely to score lower on later attempts. By the way, she's amazing. She's one of the many reasons I love Michigan.

I'd also love to attend Berkeley, but even though I'm at the median LSAT and above the 25th percentile GPA, the calculator didn't think I have much of a shot. <sigh>

The admissions officers always say "It's not just about the numbers." I keep telling myself that...

[$1.99]

retaking a 167 is indeed risky, but it is going to be tough with your grades and scores to feel good about your chances. i do not see penn/boalt/michigan happening. i would not retake unless you are absolutely confident you will do better. instead, i would spend time crafting a superb application in general and apply early. maybe ED to michigan.

[descartesb4thehorse]

SZ is amazing, but you can score higher. You just have to commit to studying. Take advantage of TLS: it will help you a lot. You can improve your score, but you just have to commit to it. It may be too late now for October, so you may want to consider applying in a different cycle.

I'm going to PM you about this further, but being below both medians does not look good for you. Definitely try at a retake and you'll be in a much better position.

[Tiago Splitter]

I'd re-take. Unless you have done every question released since 1991, no reason not to re-take.

[Rock-N-Roll]

I really love these three schools. The law school calculator gave me a 70% chance for Cornell. I'm between the 25th percentile and the median for LSAT, and I'm just above the median GPA. I would think that would mean I have a good shot, but the posts I've been reading on this forum suggest otherwise. I know the calculator generates overly optimistic results, so at this point, I don't know what to think.

I'm one point below Michigan's 25th percentile LSAT and two points below the median LSAT score. But the Michigan website points out that there is very little statistical difference between my 167 and their median 169. Am I kidding myself when I cross my fingers and hope that they'll love me as much as I love them? I'm a non-URM female with 8 years of experience teaching English.

Penn is my least likely shot, according to the calculator and their medians.

If I'm kidding myself by looking at these schools, please be honest. I'm scared to retake the LSAT because Sarah Zearfoss wrote that anyone with a 165 or higher is statistically likely to score lower on later attempts. By the way, she's amazing. She's one of the many reasons I love Michigan.

I'd also love to attend Berkeley, but even though I'm at the median LSAT and above the 25th percentile GPA, the calculator didn't think I have much of a shot. <sigh>

The admissions officers always say "It's not just about the numbers." I keep telling myself that...

My subjective opinion is that unlike what people may have told you, application to law school is all about the numbers. BUT - In your case your numbers are good and I personally think you have a good shot at C as well as both M and P. Keep in mind though that for both M and P you'll have to help yourself with a really good PS and letters to make you stand out amongst others with numbers similar to yours.

And how come you are so down on your chances at B? From what I can tell, B definitely likes applicants who went out and did something interesting in the world after college, and it sounds like 8 years of teaching English might be something that falls into that category. Best of luck!

[confusedlaw]

very similar numbers

Was the 8 years teaching a full time job?
For Berkeley you really have to write an awesome PS and maybe even a DS because the Dean really stressed the importance of these two parts of your application, i too wondered the same thing when i saw people with amazing numbers get dinged from there and that was the response i got from other TLS members

[Bildungsroman]

But the Michigan website points out that there is very little statistical difference between my 167 and their median 169.

That's true, but don't let them fool you into thinking they actually evaluate them as equals. A 169 is much more likely to get admitted than a 167.

I'm scared to retake the LSAT because Sarah Zearfoss wrote that anyone with a 165 or higher is statistically likely to score lower on later attempts.

I don't know if she said that, but it's definitely not true. If you look at the data LSAC reports for test repeaters, people in the 165-174 category, on average, improve their score, with the average score for someone retaking a 167 coming out a little over 169. Of course that's not a random sampling of 167ers; it's predominantly made up of people who thought they could do better on the retake. Still, the data support retaking if you think you can do better (what did your LSAT prep look like and how did your test-day score compare to practice scores?) and I'd feel a hell of a lot more comfortable applying with a 168+/3.7 versus a 167/3.7

[kanha]

http://www.spam.com

[minnbills]

Am I missing something what the fuck is that I don't even

EDIT: I'm referring to the louisiana thing.

[j12]

I retook a 167, did minimal additional prep (like one or two PTs) and scored higher. I improved all the way to 168.


I realized that I really needed to step it up. Did something like 12 additional PTs and started reviewed tests more thoroughly. Came away with a 174. If you want to retake you can do better, but you need to put yourself in a position to do better. As is I say you have a chance at Cornell, but who wants to pay sticker there anyways?

[Lady in Red]

Was the 8 years teaching a full time job?

Yes, full time.

[Lady in Red]

I don't know if she said that, but it's definitely not true. If you look at the data LSAC reports for test repeaters, people in the 165-174 category, on average, improve their score, with the average score for someone retaking a 167 coming out a little over 169. Of course that's not a random sampling of 167ers; it's predominantly made up of people who thought they could do better on the retake. Still, the data support retaking if you think you can do better (what did your LSAT prep look like and how did your test-day score compare to practice scores?) and I'd feel a hell of a lot more comfortable applying with a 168+/3.7 versus a 167/3.7

THANK YOU for the link! I don't know how I didn't find it myself, but I'm glad you sent it. Very helpful data!

[daydreamer]

Hey ladyinred, I applied last cycle (mid-November) with a 3.72 and 167 and was waitlisted at Cornell and Michigan and rejected at Berkeley.

In full, my last cycle (2010-2011) went like this:

Michigan - Waitlisted
Berkeley - Rejected
Virginia _ Rejected
Cornell - Waitlisted
Georgetown - Waitlisted
UCLA - Waitlisted
USC - Accepted w/ 60k
Illinois - Rejected

I am a little different in that I applied during undergrad but I really do think that it's really all about the numbers. I ended up retaking and got a 171 and I am reapplying this cycle. Michigan was/is far and away my top choice school (and yes SZ is awesome!) so I was willing to put off a year to get another shot.

Hope this helps, best of luck to you! Maybe we'll end up at UMich together next Fall!

[Lady in Red]

I ended up retaking and got a 171 and I am reapplying this cycle. Michigan was/is far and away my top choice school (and yes SZ is awesome!) so I was willing to put off a year to get another shot.

Hope this helps, best of luck to you! Maybe we'll end up at UMich together next Fall!

Wow, congrats on the 171! That's fantastic! I think I'd better retest if I want to meet you in Ann Arbor next fall...

The leaves will be so beautiful.

[sandwiches5000]

SZ is amazing, but you can score higher. You just have to commit to studying. Take advantage of TLS: it will help you a lot. You can improve your score, but you just have to commit to it. It may be too late now for October, so you may want to consider applying in a different cycle.

I'm going to PM you about this further, but being below both medians does not look good for you. Definitely try at a retake and you'll be in a much better position.

Yesssssss. I'm in the same boat as you. (sort of... I have a 3.76.) It is definitely not too late for October. You just have to mentally commit. Were your PTs higher? My PTs were in the mid-170s before the exam and then I got the 167 so I'm re-doing the shiz.

HOWEVER, you obviously have a good grasp on the exam if you were able to get a 167. You know all of the basics. Just practice real PTs and hone in on weak points. You can do it!

[Lady in Red]

I just wanted to post an update for those who might be curious about how well they can do with similar numbers.

I applied to Michigan (Early Decision), Berkeley, Cornell, UCLA, USC, Boston U, University of Colorado, and University of Arizona.

Based on what people on TLS said, I didn't have high hopes of making it into the T14. I decided that I would choose a regional school in an area where I could make a life for myself. I figured I would go to the University of Colorado -- a gorgeous school with the best reputation in the region -- and I was getting very excited about the thought of living in Boulder.

Then an envelope came in the mail. Michigan. When I saw the word "Congratulations," I burst into tears.

Moral of the story: APPLY to your dream schools. You never know. I got into Michigan with an LSAT score under the 25th percentile.

Ironically, I was sitting for the December LSAT at the very moment when the Michigan acceptance was delivered. I got a 180. Now Columbia is emailing me fee waivers...but I couldn't be happier that my cycle is over and I'm going to Michigan. For various reasons, I think it will be the perfect fit for me.

I hope that you all end up somewhere wonderful -- best of luck!

[sandwiches5000]

I just wanted to post an update for those who might be curious about how well they can do with similar numbers.

I applied to Michigan (Early Decision), Berkeley, Cornell, UCLA, USC, Boston U, University of Colorado, and University of Arizona.

Based on what people on TLS said, I didn't have high hopes of making it into the T14. I decided that I would choose a regional school in an area where I could make a life for myself. I figured I would go to the University of Colorado -- a gorgeous school with the best reputation in the region -- and I was getting very excited about the thought of living in Boulder.

Then an envelope came in the mail. Michigan. When I saw the word "Congratulations," I burst into tears.

Moral of the story: APPLY to your dream schools. You never know. I got into Michigan with an LSAT score under the 25th percentile.

Ironically, I was sitting for the December LSAT at the very moment when the Michigan acceptance was delivered. I got a 180. Now Columbia is emailing me fee waivers...but I couldn't be happier that my cycle is over and I'm going to Michigan. For various reasons, I think it will be the perfect fit for me.

I hope that you all end up somewhere wonderful -- best of luck!

I couldn't agree more. Similar situation here, minus that 180 of course. Excellent work! You should be looking at some serious money from Michigan now. See you at ASW!

[Lady in Red]

I couldn't agree more. Similar situation here, minus that 180 of course. Excellent work! You should be looking at some serious money from Michigan now. See you at ASW!

Yay! See you there!

[desiballa21]

I just wanted to post an update for those who might be curious about how well they can do with similar numbers.

I applied to Michigan (Early Decision), Berkeley, Cornell, UCLA, USC, Boston U, University of Colorado, and University of Arizona.

Based on what people on TLS said, I didn't have high hopes of making it into the T14. I decided that I would choose a regional school in an area where I could make a life for myself. I figured I would go to the University of Colorado -- a gorgeous school with the best reputation in the region -- and I was getting very excited about the thought of living in Boulder.

Then an envelope came in the mail. Michigan. When I saw the word "Congratulations," I burst into tears.

Moral of the story: APPLY to your dream schools. You never know. I got into Michigan with an LSAT score under the 25th percentile.

Ironically, I was sitting for the December LSAT at the very moment when the Michigan acceptance was delivered. I got a 180. Now Columbia is emailing me fee waivers...but I couldn't be happier that my cycle is over and I'm going to Michigan. For various reasons, I think it will be the perfect fit for me.

I hope that you all end up somewhere wonderful -- best of luck!

Amazing. Best of luck to you!

[UnamSanctam]

See you in AA. I am a little surprised you're not bowing out of the cycle and reapplying to HYSCCN next cycle.

[daydreamer]

I just wanted to post an update for those who might be curious about how well they can do with similar numbers.

I applied to Michigan (Early Decision), Berkeley, Cornell, UCLA, USC, Boston U, University of Colorado, and University of Arizona.

Based on what people on TLS said, I didn't have high hopes of making it into the T14. I decided that I would choose a regional school in an area where I could make a life for myself. I figured I would go to the University of Colorado -- a gorgeous school with the best reputation in the region -- and I was getting very excited about the thought of living in Boulder.

Then an envelope came in the mail. Michigan. When I saw the word "Congratulations," I burst into tears.

Moral of the story: APPLY to your dream schools. You never know. I got into Michigan with an LSAT score under the 25th percentile.

Ironically, I was sitting for the December LSAT at the very moment when the Michigan acceptance was delivered. I got a 180. Now Columbia is emailing me fee waivers...but I couldn't be happier that my cycle is over and I'm going to Michigan. For various reasons, I think it will be the perfect fit for me.

I hope that you all end up somewhere wonderful -- best of luck!

Wow, what a great story - congrats! I'll be in AA this Fall as well!

[AlanShore]

180?!

wow!! 167 to 180. that is amazing. congrats!

I just wanted to post an update for those who might be curious about how well they can do with similar numbers.

I applied to Michigan (Early Decision), Berkeley, Cornell, UCLA, USC, Boston U, University of Colorado, and University of Arizona.

Based on what people on TLS said, I didn't have high hopes of making it into the T14. I decided that I would choose a regional school in an area where I could make a life for myself. I figured I would go to the University of Colorado -- a gorgeous school with the best reputation in the region -- and I was getting very excited about the thought of living in Boulder.

Then an envelope came in the mail. Michigan. When I saw the word "Congratulations," I burst into tears.

Moral of the story: APPLY to your dream schools. You never know. I got into Michigan with an LSAT score under the 25th percentile.

Ironically, I was sitting for the December LSAT at the very moment when the Michigan acceptance was delivered. I got a 180. Now Columbia is emailing me fee waivers...but I couldn't be happier that my cycle is over and I'm going to Michigan. For various reasons, I think it will be the perfect fit for me.

I hope that you all end up somewhere wonderful -- best of luck!

[KMaine]

Congratulations! PLEASE don't go to Michigan without significant money.

[Lady in Red]

See you in AA. I am a little surprised you're not bowing out of the cycle and reapplying to HYSCCN next cycle.

I'm 32 years old...and not getting any younger.

But also, I'm so excited about starting law school and entering a new career field. I just can't wait! It's killing me just trying to wait until May!

And Michigan is such an awesome school, the highest ranked public school, great placement in academia, close-knit student body, beautiful campus...and most of all, it just feels right.

And I've already invested in maize and blue additions to my wardrobe. GO BLUE!!!

[sach1282]

Lady in Red, I remember you because you were the first person to give me odds in the "guess where the above poster is attending" thread. I can't believe you did so amazing on the December retake, huge congratulations. You told me NYU, but I might end up at Michigan too. With COL plus a scholarship offer from Michigan, NYU would put me $80,000 more in debt. Plus, I visited Michigan and loved it and NYC is not for me.