2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

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AffordablePrep
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby AffordablePrep » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:02 pm

Samara wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:You should be admitted to at least 3 of the 4 law schools, although you may get admitted to all four. If admitted to all 4, then MSU is the best choice, in my opinion, but NC Central is quite affordable for NC residents.

Since you are taking a year off, consider retaking the LSAT. A score in the mid-150s should enable you to gain admission to a few tier one law schools as well as earn scholarship offers from some tier two & lower ranked law schools.

Phew, actually constructive advice, though OP already said he is retaking. Without knowing how much prep OP did for June, it's hard to speculate how much the score can increase. Getting from 148 to the mid-150s or low-160s is doable, even if you did some prep to get to 148. A lot of these predictions seem reeeeeally optimistic, but you never know I guess.

For T2, I think your best bet may be IU-Indy. Applying out of state may make it a little tougher, but they have some of the lowest numbers in the T2. If you can get your LSAT score at or above their median (156), I think you have a really good shot there. Plus, Indianapolis is a decent market that is served pretty heavily by IU-Indy, so I would think your job prospects would be better than at somewhere like Northeastern or Chapman where you're competing with a lot of higher-ranked schools.

This is decent advise. Indianapolis is one of the 12 largest cities in the US. Indiana is seen as all corn fields and farmers, but this is not accurate. A big mistake people make is going to major cities with a lot of competition. There was a NY times article about recently barred attorneys relative to new attorney jobs available, and I would take a look at that chart if you plan on dipping out of the top 25 and have some portability. I am a firm believer that we are fortunate to be in a country where you can live a decent quality of life in any of the fifty states if you are smart about it. Every town has housing, a place to get decent food and recreational facilities. Between that and creating a great loving family, what else can a (wo)man want without being greedy?

admisionquestion
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby admisionquestion » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:14 pm

AffordablePrep wrote:
Samara wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:You should be admitted to at least 3 of the 4 law schools, although you may get admitted to all four. If admitted to all 4, then MSU is the best choice, in my opinion, but NC Central is quite affordable for NC residents.

Since you are taking a year off, consider retaking the LSAT. A score in the mid-150s should enable you to gain admission to a few tier one law schools as well as earn scholarship offers from some tier two & lower ranked law schools.

Phew, actually constructive advice, though OP already said he is retaking. Without knowing how much prep OP did for June, it's hard to speculate how much the score can increase. Getting from 148 to the mid-150s or low-160s is doable, even if you did some prep to get to 148. A lot of these predictions seem reeeeeally optimistic, but you never know I guess.

For T2, I think your best bet may be IU-Indy. Applying out of state may make it a little tougher, but they have some of the lowest numbers in the T2. If you can get your LSAT score at or above their median (156), I think you have a really good shot there. Plus, Indianapolis is a decent market that is served pretty heavily by IU-Indy, so I would think your job prospects would be better than at somewhere like Northeastern or Chapman where you're competing with a lot of higher-ranked schools.

This is decent advise. Indianapolis is one of the 12 largest cities in the US. Indiana is seen as all corn fields and farmers, but this is not accurate. A big mistake people make is going to major cities with a lot of competition. There was a NY times article about recently barred attorneys relative to new attorney jobs available, and I would take a look at that chart if you plan on dipping out of the top 25 and have some portability. I am a firm believer that we are fortunate to be in a country where you can live a decent quality of life in any of the fifty states if you are smart about it. Every town has housing, a place to get decent food and recreational facilities. Between that and creating a great loving family, what else can a (wo)man want without being greedy?


This is still a bad idea unless you can graduate with very little debt. You can enjoy that same nice life as a CPA. What is he getting by going to school for three years other than forgoing 100,000 dollars of pay and collecting a ton of debt?

I a no expert on CPA's but this shitty Ehow site http://www.ehow.com/about_5208216_avera ... y-cpa.html says that with 5-10 years of experience CPA's score between 50,000 and 70,00 average of that is 60,000 BAM... he can be making the same pay by skipping LS as going. But he can avoid the debt and lost salary.

AffordablePrep
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby AffordablePrep » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:24 pm

Great question.

If under a microscope, I would respond to it by making two points.

1.) There is an obsession on this forum about creating the best financial situation for each and every person. This is very responsible, and perhaps representative of a subgroup of the population that is more intelligent and mature than the norm, and made very worried by the economic situation that their parents' poor choices bestowed upon them, and society at large.

However, being a CPA is by no means a field exempt from economic hardship. They struggle too, and you would imagine as a field they are in as bad shape as are attorneys - if people have less money, there is less of a need for accountants by nature. Obviously corporate law is influenced greatly by the economy, but people still get divorced, assaulted, injured, inventive, etc. every day. There are needs for some accountants, and some lawyers. Also, the skill sets between attorneys and accountants are somewhat similar - if OP struggles in law, why do you think he'd be a great accountant?

Even if OP had a job lined up paying 50k, which he's given no indication that he does, say over the long run taking into consideration the cost of law school, he wound up making 10k less per year for the rest of his life. Liking what you do does have tremendous value. If OP hates his job in his early 20s, what indication is there he'll work hard enough to keep it into his 30s? Sometimes creating the best economic situation is not only about the on paper salary, but many other factors as well.

If, however, OP is doing it for $ I agree it's a bad move as OP is already behind the 8-ball before the get go.

2.) I am speaking to OP under the assumption he'll go to law school one way or the other. If he goes, I think my advise is prudent. A lot of people go into the process blindly, forego the advise their peers give them and then complain about how America stinks, and is unfair. I think that all of us, you and myself included, are giving OP valuable advise that he can choose to listen to or ignore. A lot of people on this forum say things that they would likely not say in real life, but are not logging onto this forum to take out their stress on others. When people say retake, they can also say - you probably will not be a successful lawyer, and should quit now. However, with the assumption lawyering is what they need to be happy, they are only giving the best advise possible.

admisionquestion
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby admisionquestion » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:32 pm

AffordablePrep wrote:Great question.

If under a microscope, I would respond to it by making two points.

1.) There is an obsession on this forum about creating the best financial situation for each and every person. This is very responsible, and perhaps representative of a subgroup of the population that is more intelligent and mature than the norm, and made very worried by the economic situation that their parents' poor choices bestowed upon them, and society at large.

However, being a CPA is by no means a field exempt from economic hardship. They struggle too, and you would imagine as a field they are in as bad shape as are attorneys - if people have less money, there is less of a need for accountants by nature. Obviously corporate law is influenced greatly by the economy, but people still get divorced, assaulted, injured, inventive, etc. every day. There are needs for some accountants, and some lawyers. Also, the skill sets between attorneys and accountants are somewhat similar - if OP struggles in law, why do you think he'd be a great accountant?

Even if OP had a job lined up paying 50k, which he's given no indication that he does, say over the long run taking into consideration the cost of law school, he wound up making 10k less per year for the rest of his life. Liking what you do does have tremendous value. If OP hates his job in his early 20s, what indication is there he'll work hard enough to keep it into his 30s? Sometimes creating the best economic situation is not only about the on paper salary, but many other factors as well.

If, however, OP is doing it for $ I agree it's a bad move as OP is already behind the 8-ball before the get go.

2.) I am speaking to OP under the assumption he'll go to law school one way or the other. If he goes, I think my advise is prudent. A lot of people go into the process blindly, forego the advise their peers give them and then complain about how America stinks, and is unfair. I think that all of us, you and myself included, are giving OP valuable advise that he can choose to listen to or ignore. A lot of people on this forum say things that they would likely not say in real life, but are not logging onto this forum to take out their stress on others. When people say retake, they can also say - you probably will not be a successful lawyer, and should quit now. However, with the assumption lawyering is what they need to be happy, they are only giving the best advise possible.


Wow. That was surprisingly thoughtful. Your officially banned from the internet. That is not allowed on my webz. GET HIM.

AffordablePrep
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby AffordablePrep » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:42 pm

I figure if I am going to use TLS to hire tutors, I might as well use my knowledge to provide some kind of use to the wider community.

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Samara
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Samara » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:55 pm

admisionquestion wrote:This is still a bad idea unless you can graduate with very little debt. You can enjoy that same nice life as a CPA. What is he getting by going to school for three years other than forgoing 100,000 dollars of pay and collecting a ton of debt?

I a no expert on CPA's but this shitty Ehow site http://www.ehow.com/about_5208216_avera ... y-cpa.html says that with 5-10 years of experience CPA's score between 50,000 and 70,00 average of that is 60,000 BAM... he can be making the same pay by skipping LS as going. But he can avoid the debt and lost salary.

The argument about whether or not to go is a separate issue, though I think IU-Indy still is a decent choice with decent job prospects. (And as a former resident, Indy is actually not a bad place to live.) I did want to point out, however, that I don't think we know that OP is a CPA. He just mentioned that he is working for a CPA PC firm. Some clarification is needed to better address that issue.

Acumen
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Acumen » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:02 pm

I am really appreciating the positive feedback. For those negative comments I say this; had I lived my most recent 5 years by stopping at what you call "realistic" I would would only be settling for mediocrity like you. My challenges are not yours so I would never expect for you to understand but I would like for you to respect them.

On another note, I was really flabbergasted (oh, gosh the black guy has an extended vocabulary) by my June LSAT score. Prior to the actual test I was scoring in the mid 160s. I will continue studying and retake the test in October as planned. I have a passion to attend law school even if I have to go to Cooley. It is my ultimate desire to start my own firm and have a heavy emphasis on contract, real property, and intellectual property law.

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Glock
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Glock » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:05 pm

If you were PT'ing in the mid-160s you should be able to study your way to 170+. Take some time and make it count. Since you are going to law school anyway you might as well make it a decent school rather than a complete toilet.

admisionquestion
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby admisionquestion » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:11 pm

Acumen wrote:I am really appreciating the positive feedback. For those negative comments I say this; had I lived my most recent 5 years by stopping at what you call "realistic" I would would only be settling for mediocrity like you. My challenges are not yours so I would never expect for you to understand but I would like for you to respect them.

On another note, I was really flabbergasted (oh, gosh the black guy has an extended vocabulary) by my June LSAT score. Prior to the actual test I was scoring in the mid 160s. I will continue studying and retake the test in October as planned. I have a passion to attend law school even if I have to go to Cooley. It is my ultimate desire to start my own firm and have a heavy emphasis on contract, real property, and intellectual property law.


Whats your email address? I want to keep it on file so that in four years I can call and laugh hysterically at your misery. Enjoy Cooley.

I suppose your not 100% insane if you really do have "a passion to attend law school" so long as your passion is really for attending law school and not working as a lawyer. Because if you attend Cooley that is almost certainly not going to happen.

Of course your decision is your own. But if you post on a board asking "where shall I go?" You should expect honest answers. One damn good honest answer is not to law school...

AffordablePrep
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby AffordablePrep » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:13 pm

Acumen wrote:I am really appreciating the positive feedback. For those negative comments I say this; had I lived my most recent 5 years by stopping at what you call "realistic" I would would only be settling for mediocrity like you. My challenges are not yours so I would never expect for you to understand but I would like for you to respect them.

On another note, I was really flabbergasted (oh, gosh the black guy has an extended vocabulary) by my June LSAT score. Prior to the actual test I was scoring in the mid 160s. I will continue studying and retake the test in October as planned. I have a passion to attend law school even if I have to go to Cooley. It is my ultimate desire to start my own firm and have a heavy emphasis on contract, real property, and intellectual property law.

Please do not involve race in this - nobody is being racist in saying you should not be a lawyer. They are saying your numbers are the issue, not your race. Mentioning your race in this context as opposed to an admissions context is unprofessional and "unlawyer like".

In saying realistic, this is not like a teenager saying I want to be a great pop star - I have the talent, but it's so competitive, and maybe not such a realistic way to expect to pay rent.

This is you taking a test directly there to measure your ability to learn to think like a lawyer, and scoring worse than 70% of the general population, and about 90% of people entering a trade school where only 50% of them will get jobs.

If we are going by analogies, this is like you expecting to be a pop star when during your first audition you perform well below average quite like William Hung: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RrLQUN8UJg. The only difference is nobody pays like a lawyer to be a joke. You need to reinvent yourself, and then reapply.

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Pocahontas
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Pocahontas » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:28 pm

admisionquestion wrote:Whats your email address? I want to keep it on file so that in four years I can call and laugh hysterically at your misery. Enjoy Cooley.

I suppose your not 100% insane if you really do have "a passion to attend law school" so long as your passion is really for attending law school and not working as a lawyer. Because if you attend Cooley that is almost certainly not going to happen.

Of course your decision is your own. But if you post on a board asking "where shall I go?" You should expect honest answers. One damn good honest answer is not to law school...


Is your problem with him applying to law school with his numbers and "wanting" to attend Cooley? Or is your problem with him going at all, even with a retake and results closer to his mid-160 PT score?

I certainly agree that OP will have an uphill battle with his UGPA, but I don't see what is so unrealistic about him retaking and applying with a higher score. Heck, WashU practically takes everyone with above a 168, regardless of gpa...(not saying OP will get there, but who am I to shit on the possibility)

andythefir
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby andythefir » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:29 pm

Admissionquestion: your and you're are different words that mean different things

admisionquestion
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby admisionquestion » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:32 pm

andythefir wrote:Admissionquestion: your and you're are different words that mean different things


:) your right. :) My bad.

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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby firemed » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:37 pm

admisionquestion wrote:
Whats your email address? I want to keep it on file so that in four years I can call and laugh hysterically at your misery. Enjoy Cooley.


Dude, stop being a jerk. You made your position quite clear, but so did others without being a jerk about it. OP gets it. Now leave him alone and move on. BTW, talking like this is more likely to make OP say "I'll prove you wrong" than say "admision is right." Honey and vinegar and all that. I really hope you aren't planning to go into litigation.

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Samara
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Samara » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:31 am

Acumen wrote:I am really appreciating the positive feedback. For those negative comments I say this; had I lived my most recent 5 years by stopping at what you call "realistic" I would would only be settling for mediocrity like you. My challenges are not yours so I would never expect for you to understand but I would like for you to respect them.

On another note, I was really flabbergasted (oh, gosh the black guy has an extended vocabulary) by my June LSAT score. Prior to the actual test I was scoring in the mid 160s. I will continue studying and retake the test in October as planned. I have a passion to attend law school even if I have to go to Cooley. It is my ultimate desire to start my own firm and have a heavy emphasis on contract, real property, and intellectual property law.

If you were PTing in the 160s, then you should be able to do well on the retake and get into a good school. You'd almost certainly be looking at T1, with a decent shot at somewhere as high as IU-Bloomington or UC-Davis. State schools are always going to be a little tougher because of in-state requirements, but I don't think they're out of reach. Nail the retake!

AffordablePrep
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby AffordablePrep » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:08 am

I think OP is 100% right, and you people are just jealous you don't have OP's intangible skills like faith in god, passion and going with your gut which are all much more important to actual lawyering than USNews rank or analytic thought.

Cooley is a fine school, second best in the nation, and you all are jealous.

Furthermore, if OP does not get 6 figures coming out of Cooley it will entirely be because the legal profession is racist, and you would all be responsible for OP's failure as it clearly cannot be their intellect or their hope.

admisionquestion
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby admisionquestion » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:47 am

AffordablePrep wrote:I think OP is 100% right, and you people are just jealous you don't have OP's intangible skills like faith in god, passion and going with your gut which are all much more important to actual lawyering than USNews rank or analytic thought.

Cooley is a fine school, second best in the nation, and you all are jealous.

Furthermore, if OP does not get 6 figures coming out of Cooley it will entirely be because the legal profession is racist, and you would all be responsible for OP's failure as it clearly cannot be their intellect or their hope.


Agreed. I revoke my advice.

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Ginj
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Ginj » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:52 am

Acumen wrote:I am really appreciating the positive feedback. For those negative comments I say this; had I lived my most recent 5 years by stopping at what you call "realistic" I would would only be settling for mediocrity like you. My challenges are not yours so I would never expect for you to understand but I would like for you to respect them.

On another note, I was really flabbergasted (oh, gosh the black guy has an extended vocabulary) by my June LSAT score. Prior to the actual test I was scoring in the mid 160s. I will continue studying and retake the test in October as planned. I have a passion to attend law school even if I have to go to Cooley. It is my ultimate desire to start my own firm and have a heavy emphasis on contract, real property, and intellectual property law.


Really? I mean, really??

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JordynAsh
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby JordynAsh » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:01 pm

Ginj wrote:
Acumen wrote:I am really appreciating the positive feedback. For those negative comments I say this; had I lived my most recent 5 years by stopping at what you call "realistic" I would would only be settling for mediocrity like you. My challenges are not yours so I would never expect for you to understand but I would like for you to respect them.

On another note, I was really flabbergasted (oh, gosh the black guy has an extended vocabulary) by my June LSAT score. Prior to the actual test I was scoring in the mid 160s. I will continue studying and retake the test in October as planned. I have a passion to attend law school even if I have to go to Cooley. It is my ultimate desire to start my own firm and have a heavy emphasis on contract, real property, and intellectual property law.


Really? I mean, really??


Seriously. So much what the fuckery going on here.

admisionquestion
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby admisionquestion » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:39 pm

JordynAsh wrote:
Ginj wrote:
Acumen wrote:I am really appreciating the positive feedback. For those negative comments I say this; had I lived my most recent 5 years by stopping at what you call "realistic" I would would only be settling for mediocrity like you. My challenges are not yours so I would never expect for you to understand but I would like for you to respect them.



I missed this before. Seeing a future student of Cooley calling himself mediocre is incredibly hilarious. Mediocracy is somewhere around average...Cooley is somewhere around worst.

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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby sunynp » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:58 pm

AffordablePrep wrote:I think OP is 100% right, and you people are just jealous you don't have OP's intangible skills like faith in god, passion and going with your gut which are all much more important to actual lawyering than USNews rank or analytic thought.

Cooley is a fine school, second best in the nation, and you all are jealous.

Furthermore, if OP does not get 6 figures coming out of Cooley it will entirely be because the legal profession is racist, and you would all be responsible for OP's failure as it clearly cannot be their intellect or their hope.


Are you seriously looking for people to work for you? I guess a job is a job. You don't sound like anyone I would want to work with or for, ever.

To OP - Use the resources on this forum to help you study and retake to get the highest score you can. If you have more questions about the LSAT or applying, you should post them. Most people will try to give you helpful advice without attacking you.

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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Eco » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:47 pm

You should honestly consider not going to law school. It's not worth it. You won't get into a good one and you'll just be saddled with debt and no chances of a decent job for the rest of your life.

Acumen
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Acumen » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:33 pm

I find these negative comments to be hilarious, especially since the person on the other end of the keyboard is anonymous. I am not a CPA, I work with the Firm as a consultant. In addition, some of you are off topic. I said, "Where shall I go?!" I never asked for an opinion on whether I should go.

Thank you to all those that have provided useful information. I am studying hard for the retake!

AffordablePrep
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby AffordablePrep » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:28 pm

Acumen wrote:I find these negative comments to be hilarious, especially since the person on the other end of the keyboard is anonymous. I am not a CPA, I work with the Firm as a consultant. In addition, some of you are off topic. I said, "Where shall I go?!" I never asked for an opinion on whether I should go.

Thank you to all those that have provided useful information. I am studying hard for the retake!

People are telling you not to go to law school with your current numbers as no school that would accept you would be a great bet.

If you retook and had an improved score, I am sure many of the remarks would change.

I don't think it is an online thing any more than asking strangers for advise is an online thing. I am sure that in person the responses would be the same with some beating around the bush.

I wish you the best in your retake, but must admit that I was rubbed the wrong way by your not so subtle allusion to that people's suggestions not to go to law school were racially related when most people on this website would argue that in 2011 being of a unique race makes one more likely to succeed through this process. In this it appeared as though you were using your race as a defense mechanism, and not accepting how your current numbers look.

You have one of the best soft factors one could hope for, and it would be a shame if you wasted it. I truly hope you are taking the retake seriously. I'd forget about this or any website except for LSAT prep sections for now.

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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby lisjjen » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:32 pm

dr123 wrote:I'd keep working as a CPA if I were you.




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