2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

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Acumen
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2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Acumen » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:46 pm

Alright, I took the LSAT in June for the 1st time and scored a 148. I am obviously going to retest in October to aim for a much higher score. However, based on the following information what do you think my chances are:
- 2.75 UGPA from Political Science major and English minor
- AA male
- LORs from undergrad University President and Dean of English Professor
- Personal statement; referencing my travel to El Salvador, starting a Black Student Union chapter on my campus, being the first male in my family to graduate from college, etc.
- Arrest record: hazing which was dismissed from court (a bunch of baloney if you asked me, but no one asked)
- Currently, taking a year off working w/ a CPA PC Firm to get my undergrad debt to ZERO.

I am currently applying to Texas Southern, North Carolina Central Univ., Michigan State Univ., Thomas M. Cooley, and Ohio Northern. Do you intellectually minded, legal pursuant, geniuses think I have a shot at getting into these schools? Also, what do you think my chances are with a T2 school? Give it to me strait, I'm a fan of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

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Glock
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Glock » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:56 pm

There is always a T4 that will take someone paying full bill. I really do not know about chances at those schools.

Being an AA male you could retake in the 160+ range and get into some T1 schools, even with a sub 3.0 GPA. If you studied properly there really is no limit to what you can score on the LSAT. Get high enough and T20 or T14 is totally in the realm of possibility. That path would be a significantly better investment.

Did you take an LSAT class? Are you willing to take one to get into the T1?

am060459
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby am060459 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:59 pm

Glock wrote:There is always a T4 that will take someone paying full bill. I really do not know about chances at those schools.

Being an AA male you could retake in the 160+ range and get into some T1 schools, even with a sub 3.0 GPA. If you studied properly there really is no limit to what you can score on the LSAT. Get high enough and T20 or T14 is totally in the realm of possibility. That path would be a significantly better investment.

Did you take an LSAT class? Are you willing to take one to get into the T1?


agree. dont take the LSAT in October. if your taking a year off to work no need to rush the LSAT. score 160+ and apply to better schools. plenty of resources on this website on preparation for the LSAT if you dont want to take class. good luck!

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BuckinghamB
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby BuckinghamB » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:02 pm

I know you said you're going to retake....that is a good thing. As it stands now, you'll probably get into a couple of those schools, but that would be a dreadfully poor decision. Even if you somehow defeat all odds and secured ANY legal job upon graduation from any one of those schools, you wouldn't make nearly enough to carve a chunk out of the massive $150K ish debt you will almost certainly accrue. Then, taking this year off to pay off your undergrad debt will have been for naught. I'll say what so many other TLSers have advised to those in similar situations. Retake or don't go period. It's that simple.

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ndirish2010
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:03 am

Once you say you're actually applying to Cooley, you have to fight not to lose all credibility.

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dr123
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby dr123 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:15 am

I'd keep working as a CPA if I were you.

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MTal
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby MTal » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:18 am

To answer the question, I hope for your sake and for societie's, nowhere.

firemed
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby firemed » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:22 am

dr123 wrote:I'd keep working as a CPA if I were you.



I don't know. AA male who is a CPA willing to go into tax... if he gets 160+ he is probably in GREAT shape.

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dr123
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby dr123 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:26 am

firemed wrote:
dr123 wrote:I'd keep working as a CPA if I were you.



I don't know. AA male who is a CPA willing to go into tax... if he gets 160+ he is probably in GREAT shape.


3-5 years as a CPA, then B-school (which isn't as numbers focused). Sounds way more legit.

firemed
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby firemed » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:28 am

dr123 wrote:
firemed wrote:
dr123 wrote:I'd keep working as a CPA if I were you.



I don't know. AA male who is a CPA willing to go into tax... if he gets 160+ he is probably in GREAT shape.


3-5 years as a CPA, then B-school (which isn't as numbers focused). Sounds way more legit.


That is a decent option.... though with a 165 there is a chance for T-14 and then biglaw. I don't know, I guess it would be up to OP. Like, how much does he want to be a lawyer?

admisionquestion
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby admisionquestion » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:34 am

Absolutely nowhere. You will hurt yourself. Go to B school or find a way to get a respectable LSAT. Seriously, why would someone with such terrible stats think it makes sense to got LS when it that is brutal for over 85%


Seriously your LSAT is in the 33 percentile and not everyone who takes LSAT applies to ls. You will likely have among the bottom 10% numbers of any applicants in the cycle. Why do you think you will get in the top 3 people of Cooley?

There is almost zero chance of T14 with a 2.75 Even with AA. Stop getting his hopes up :)
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Redurgam as an example but there is not enough data on LSN. I assume people with numbers that bad don't bother to think about there app cycles enough to use LSN.

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dr123
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby dr123 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:34 am

firemed wrote:
dr123 wrote:
firemed wrote:
dr123 wrote:I'd keep working as a CPA if I were you.



I don't know. AA male who is a CPA willing to go into tax... if he gets 160+ he is probably in GREAT shape.


3-5 years as a CPA, then B-school (which isn't as numbers focused). Sounds way more legit.


That is a decent option.... though with a 165 there is a chance for T-14 and then biglaw. I don't know, I guess it would be up to OP. Like, how much does he want to be a lawyer?


going from a 148 to a 165 isn't that common, thats a huuggge jump

firemed
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby firemed » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:38 am

dr123 wrote:
going from a 148 to a 165 isn't that common, thats a huuggge jump



True enough... but since he is retaking anyway there isn't any point in discouraging him yet. Let him retake and find out is what I say. If he gets below a 160 then B-school is probably the way to go.

And I have heard of people with scores in the 140s bumping up into the 160s with proper studying.

firemed
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby firemed » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:41 am

admisionquestion wrote:
There is almost zero chance of T14 with a 2.75 Even with AA. Stop getting his hopes up :)
\


Just FYI:

I personally know a URM with a similar GPA who got a very good LSAT score and got into a school in the lower T14.

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dr123
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby dr123 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:44 am

firemed wrote:
admisionquestion wrote:
There is almost zero chance of T14 with a 2.75 Even with AA. Stop getting his hopes up :)
\


Just FYI:

I personally know a URM with a similar GPA who got a very good LSAT score and got into a school in the lower T14.


Even so, there is still pretty much zero chance. Unless OP rock the LSAT and scores in the 170s

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Glock
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Glock » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:07 pm

admisionquestion wrote:
There is almost zero chance of T14 with a 2.75 Even with AA. Stop getting his hopes up :)




Non-URM work experience splitters get into the T14 all the time. He gets the AA male bonus AA male cycles are hugely unpredictable. If he gets a good LSAT he has a legitimate chance. Even if he doesn't get into the T14 he is still looking at a T1 school, which beats the shit out of Cooley.

AffordablePrep
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby AffordablePrep » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:30 pm

People just assume it's easy to jump 12 points on the LSAT, because they did it.

Jumping 12 points on the LSAT requires a lot of work, and determination.

Likewise it takes a lot of work, and determination to be a successful attorney, and takes just as much to remain a successful attorney.

However, part of the problem with the legal economy is the tendency for people to invent a life plan that includes becoming a A.) lawyer, and C.) profit without really sitting down and thinking how A leads to C.

Law is not medicine, not all lawyers have true opportunity. People point to Jose Baez as a successful TTTT attorney, and the fact is that in the field of criminal defense there are many Ben Brofman's of the world who are extraordinarily successful as TTTT graduates. However, Mr. Baez struggled deeply financially at first, got lucky to get such a high profile case and after putting in two years of work for roughly little pay only caught a big break through his own great work as well as the fortune of a weak case presented by the prosecution. In Mr. Brofman's case, the legal field was very different back then, and he made law review at his TTTT, finishing in the top 10%. But being in the top 10% was not enough - he had to be in the top 10% and actually be better at his job than people from top 14's who had much more leeway for mediocrity.

Numbers are not always an accurate prediction of success as a lawyer much like how being a first round vs. a seventh round pick in the NFL is not always an accurate prediction of success in the NFL, but for every Tom Trump Supporter Brady, there are dozens of 6th round quarterbacks out of the league in a year or two.

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Glock
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Glock » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:54 pm

AffordablePrep wrote:
Numbers are not always an accurate prediction of success as a lawyer much like how being a first round vs. a seventh round pick in the NFL is not always an accurate prediction of success in the NFL, but for every Tom Trump Supporter Brady, there are dozens of 6th round quarterbacks out of the league in a year or two.



Nobody is really arguing quality, everybody is talking about job prospects. The problem with your analogy is that it is impossible to get a job on the Eagles, Patriots, Colts, etc unless you go in the first 3 rounds.

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rinkrat19
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:57 pm

firemed wrote:
admisionquestion wrote:
There is almost zero chance of T14 with a 2.75 Even with AA. Stop getting his hopes up :)
\


Just FYI:

I personally know a URM with a similar GPA who got a very good LSAT score and got into a school in the lower T14.

And I personally know a non-URM with a slightly lower GPA who got an extremely good LSAT score and got into a school in the lower T14.

The key, obviously, is to absolutely kill the LSAT.

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MrBlonde
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby MrBlonde » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:15 pm

Glock wrote:
AffordablePrep wrote:
Numbers are not always an accurate prediction of success as a lawyer much like how being a first round vs. a seventh round pick in the NFL is not always an accurate prediction of success in the NFL, but for every Tom Trump Supporter Brady, there are dozens of 6th round quarterbacks out of the league in a year or two.



Nobody is really arguing quality, everybody is talking about job prospects. The problem with your analogy is that it is impossible to get a job on the Eagles, Patriots, Colts, etc unless you go in the first 3 rounds get drafted.


It's impossible to get a job if nobody will look at you.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:19 pm

You should be admitted to at least 3 of the 4 law schools, although you may get admitted to all four. If admitted to all 4, then MSU is the best choice, in my opinion, but NC Central is quite affordable for NC residents.

Since you are taking a year off, consider retaking the LSAT. A score in the mid-150s should enable you to gain admission to a few tier one law schools as well as earn scholarship offers from some tier two & lower ranked law schools.

admisionquestion
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby admisionquestion » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:53 pm

THIS needs to stop.

You are all going to A. Waste this kids time studying. B. Ruin his life by convincing himself to drown in debt.

You asked for constructive feedback. Here it goes:

Anyone ANYONE who is even considering applying to Cooley needs to really really reflect on if they have the critical thinking skills it would take to be a lawyer.

Anyone who could not manage to get over a 3.0 in college should really really really consider why they think they will suddenly be a better student than the 80 percent of his class that beat them in UG. If this kid does manage to get into a Cornell, he will still need to absolutely kill his UGPA/percentile to be employable. But only this time in a school full of people that care a lot more and are likely considerably smarter. Come on bro you couldn't break 3.0 in two of the easiest majors known to man--- why are you all of the sudden the best student in your class.

The LSAT is learnable. Taking it nearly cold is also a reasonable intelligence measurement. (Mensa uses it as an aside) A 148 puts you in the bottom 20 percent of law school applicants. Your clearly not a natural genius at this stuff. You might be absolutely brilliant in some ways, but the LSAT is designed to test the kind of mental skill that is good for law school. It is not perfect and likely not even very good. But really, your not a genius at this stuff.

So why on earth, do you think that you did terrible in UG and are not naturally gifted at this stuff but will somehow outperform your class. You have a good paying job. There are plenty of other good paying jobs. B school will open up some of those opportunities if you really want more education. But your own sake don't go to law school. I don't mean to crush your dreams--no--i mean to crush your dreams. I don't mean to be rude or mean---I am just telling it as I see it.

firemed
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby firemed » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:07 pm

admisionquestion wrote:The LSAT is learnable. Taking it nearly cold is also a reasonable intelligence measurement.


No, not really.

Also, you need to chill. Go take a deep breath or something. You are getting way to excited about this.

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Samara
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby Samara » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:37 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:You should be admitted to at least 3 of the 4 law schools, although you may get admitted to all four. If admitted to all 4, then MSU is the best choice, in my opinion, but NC Central is quite affordable for NC residents.

Since you are taking a year off, consider retaking the LSAT. A score in the mid-150s should enable you to gain admission to a few tier one law schools as well as earn scholarship offers from some tier two & lower ranked law schools.

Phew, actually constructive advice, though OP already said he is retaking. Without knowing how much prep OP did for June, it's hard to speculate how much the score can increase. Getting from 148 to the mid-150s or low-160s is doable, even if you did some prep to get to 148. A lot of these predictions seem reeeeeally optimistic, but you never know I guess.

For T2, I think your best bet may be IU-Indy. Applying out of state may make it a little tougher, but they have some of the lowest numbers in the T2. If you can get your LSAT score at or above their median (156), I think you have a really good shot there. Plus, Indianapolis is a decent market that is served pretty heavily by IU-Indy, so I would think your job prospects would be better than at somewhere like Northeastern or Chapman where you're competing with a lot of higher-ranked schools.

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mattviphky
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Re: 2.75 UGPA & 148 LSAT... Where shall I go?!

Postby mattviphky » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:30 pm

study




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