Chances for T-14?

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elgrancombo
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Chances for T-14?

Postby elgrancombo » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:38 pm

I took the LSAT back in February and scored a 168. My UGPA from a school ranked slightly below HYP was 4.1 (LSDAS-adjusted). From browsing other posts I can gather that I'll be seeing a lot of "Retake" advice... here's the thing, my practice average was a 168 and I spent a solid 3-4 months preparing. I don't really see how I could improve on that. Even without a retake, I was wondering what my chances would be in the T-14 and below.

My softs are pretty meh, nothing special. I'm really not even interested in CCN or HYS anymore because I know my chances of admission would be slim to none.

Would like to know my chances at

Michigan
UVa
Duke
GULC
Cornell
UCLA
GWU
Vanderbilt
William & Mary
WUSTL
Notre Dame

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Glock
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby Glock » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:19 pm

Assuming reasonable softs, LOR, and essays:

elgrancombo wrote:
Would like to know my chances at

Michigan- IN, or WL/IN
UVa- In with ED, or WL/In
Duke- IN
GULC- IN
Cornell- IN
UCLA- IN
GWU- IN
Vanderbilt- IN $
William & Mary- IN $$$
WUSTL- IN $$$
Notre Dame0- IN$$$



Aim higher. Your GPA is money and you have a better chance than you think at YHSCCN. It is at least worth the apps. You have an outside chance at YH, decent chance at S, fair/good chance at CCN, IN at Boalt. Just blanket the T14.

I'd probably target Stanford. You are above their 75th percentile in GPA and above their 25th percentile in LSAT. That enters the good shot zone.

elgrancombo
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby elgrancombo » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:31 pm

Glock wrote:Assuming reasonable softs, LOR, and essays:

elgrancombo wrote:
Would like to know my chances at

Michigan- IN, or WL/IN
UVa- In with ED, or WL/In
Duke- IN
GULC- IN
Cornell- IN
UCLA- IN
GWU- IN
Vanderbilt- IN $
William & Mary- IN $$$
WUSTL- IN $$$
Notre Dame0- IN$$$



Aim higher. Your GPA is money and you have a better chance than you think at YHSCCN. It is at least worth the apps. You have an outside chance at YH, decent chance at S, fair/good chance at CCN, IN at Boalt. Just blanket the T14.

I'd probably target Stanford. You are above their 75th percentile in GPA and above their 25th percentile in LSAT. That enters the good shot zone.


My list looks like this because my softs are really weak. Just studied my tail off during UG, didn't do ECs, and worked at a low prestige job this past year since graduating (social science grads have it rough in this economy). Would this kill me for admissions to some of the tougher places on the list I originally put up? I know I'm not Stanford/Boalt material, but any of Michigan, UVa, and to a lesser extent, Cornell would make me a very happy man.

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Glock
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby Glock » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:52 pm

elgrancombo wrote:My list looks like this because my softs are really weak. Just studied my tail off during UG, didn't do ECs, and worked at a low prestige job this past year since graduating (social science grads have it rough in this economy). Would this kill me for admissions to some of the tougher places on the list I originally put up? I know I'm not Stanford/Boalt material, but any of Michigan, UVa, and to a lesser extent, Cornell would make me a very happy man.



Better softs are nice and everything, but they are not the end all. Pad yourself with some EC's that you might have accidentally walked through one time. Your GPA is MONEY. Just kill the personal statements, etc.

You are absolutely Stanford and Boalt material. You have a legitimate chance at both of those places. You are above 25th in LSAT and above 75th on GPA (meaning you have the possibility of moving their numbers up). At boalt you are way above 50/50. You will not regret blanketing the T14.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby Gecko of Doom » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:55 pm

elgrancombo wrote:My list looks like this because my softs are really weak. Just studied my tail off during UG, didn't do ECs, and worked at a low prestige job this past year since graduating (social science grads have it rough in this economy). Would this kill me for admissions to some of the tougher places on the list I originally put up? I know I'm not Stanford/Boalt material, but any of Michigan, UVa, and to a lesser extent, Cornell would make me a very happy man.

I have what I would consider mediocre/average softs and made it into Virginia off the waitlist with a 165 and 4.0 from a no-name undergrad. In your position, I would definitely blanket all the non-HYS T14's, with a few low targets/safeties thrown in. You might be surprised what you make, especially if you apply early.

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Corwin
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby Corwin » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:52 pm

No advice, but nice job killing undergrad!

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Glock
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby Glock » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:02 pm

Gecko of Doom wrote:
elgrancombo wrote:My list looks like this because my softs are really weak. Just studied my tail off during UG, didn't do ECs, and worked at a low prestige job this past year since graduating (social science grads have it rough in this economy). Would this kill me for admissions to some of the tougher places on the list I originally put up? I know I'm not Stanford/Boalt material, but any of Michigan, UVa, and to a lesser extent, Cornell would make me a very happy man.

I have what I would consider mediocre/average softs and made it into Virginia off the waitlist with a 165 and 4.0 from a no-name undergrad. In your position, I would definitely blanket all the non-HYS T14's, with a few low targets/safeties thrown in. You might be surprised what you make, especially if you apply early.



Why would you leave out Stanford? Good God! He has a more than decent chance there!

elgrancombo
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby elgrancombo » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:08 pm

I literally did nothing even worth mentioning outside of the classroom during UG (sure, a couple internships here and there) and have been working a low-level ad agency type of job since college ended. I look at LSN and see people with my numbers being rejected or WLed at schools like UCLA... I can imagine that it's because of their weak softs. That's my only concern, turning into one of those people who set their sights too high.

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bk1
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:16 pm

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com

Agreed that retaking probably won't benefit you if you studied properly (because your chances of doing better are probably low) but on the flipside you have nothing to lose except time/money by retaking (since a lower score or a cancel won't hurt you) and a lot to gain on the even small chance that you do better.

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law4vus
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby law4vus » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:22 pm

elgrancombo wrote:I literally did nothing even worth mentioning outside of the classroom during UG (sure, a couple internships here and there) and have been working a low-level ad agency type of job since college ended. I look at LSN and see people with my numbers being rejected or WLed at schools like UCLA... I can imagine that it's because of their weak softs. That's my only concern, turning into one of those people who set their sights too high.


Don't have this attitude. Your GPA is going to get you somewhere great no matter what, but shoot for the moon. All it's going to cost is a little more effort and some money in app fees.

Having a good essay and a well put together app is going to help you overcome your lack of softs. Absolutely shoot for Stanford, even if you think you won't get in because you don't want to spend the rest of your career wondering "what if". If you have the money to do it and the time to spend on the app, you'd be a fool not to try!

Good luck!

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby Gecko of Doom » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:41 pm

Glock wrote:
Gecko of Doom wrote:
elgrancombo wrote:My list looks like this because my softs are really weak. Just studied my tail off during UG, didn't do ECs, and worked at a low prestige job this past year since graduating (social science grads have it rough in this economy). Would this kill me for admissions to some of the tougher places on the list I originally put up? I know I'm not Stanford/Boalt material, but any of Michigan, UVa, and to a lesser extent, Cornell would make me a very happy man.

I have what I would consider mediocre/average softs and made it into Virginia off the waitlist with a 165 and 4.0 from a no-name undergrad. In your position, I would definitely blanket all the non-HYS T14's, with a few low targets/safeties thrown in. You might be surprised what you make, especially if you apply early.



Why would you leave out Stanford? Good God! He has a more than decent chance there!

Because in order to be competitive for Stanford with those numbers, you need fantastic softs. If OP is worried about getting dinged from lower T14's because of a lack of softs, there's no way he/she has the softs for Stanford.

elgrancombo
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby elgrancombo » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:46 pm

Gecko of Doom wrote:
Glock wrote:
Gecko of Doom wrote:
elgrancombo wrote:My list looks like this because my softs are really weak. Just studied my tail off during UG, didn't do ECs, and worked at a low prestige job this past year since graduating (social science grads have it rough in this economy). Would this kill me for admissions to some of the tougher places on the list I originally put up? I know I'm not Stanford/Boalt material, but any of Michigan, UVa, and to a lesser extent, Cornell would make me a very happy man.

I have what I would consider mediocre/average softs and made it into Virginia off the waitlist with a 165 and 4.0 from a no-name undergrad. In your position, I would definitely blanket all the non-HYS T14's, with a few low targets/safeties thrown in. You might be surprised what you make, especially if you apply early.



Why would you leave out Stanford? Good God! He has a more than decent chance there!

Because in order to be competitive for Stanford with those numbers, you need fantastic softs. If OP is worried about getting dinged from lower T14's because of a lack of softs, there's no way he/she has the softs for Stanford.


I definitely don't have the softs... I'm not one of these reverse splitters who thinks Berkley is viable because I heard they like GPAs. I was just wondering if my numbers were competitive for Michigan, UVa, Cornell, Duke, etc. Would ED/EA make admissions more likely somewhere? I just really don't want to get closed out of T-14 or have to go below that with no $.

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Glock
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby Glock » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:46 pm

Gecko of Doom wrote:

Because in order to be competitive for Stanford with those numbers, you need fantastic softs. If OP is worried about getting dinged from lower T14's because of a lack of softs, there's no way he/she has the softs for Stanford.



Op's fear about lack of softs is irrational. I don't know if that is true that Stanford is out of reach without good softs. In any case it is worth the application. They are not making an exception with those numbers splitting above 25 and 75. More importantly, decent softs can be manufactured. Just talk about working through college in poverty or some shit, then right an essay about how much you have always wanted to go to stanford. It is just barely a reach. Plenty of people get in on LSN, and LSP has him over 50%.

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Glock
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby Glock » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:48 pm

elgrancombo wrote:
I definitely don't have the softs... I'm not one of these reverse splitters who thinks Berkley is viable because I heard they like GPAs. I was just wondering if my numbers were competitive for Michigan, UVa, Cornell, Duke, etc. Would ED/EA make admissions more likely somewhere? I just really don't want to get closed out of T-14 or have to go below that with no $.



God I hope this is a flame. BERKELY IS FUCKING IN DUDE. You are above median on both and above 75 on GPA. There are people with 162s getting in with your GPA. There is some randomness but you are a very good candidate.

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bk1
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:50 pm

Glock wrote:
elgrancombo wrote:
I definitely don't have the softs... I'm not one of these reverse splitters who thinks Berkley is viable because I heard they like GPAs. I was just wondering if my numbers were competitive for Michigan, UVa, Cornell, Duke, etc. Would ED/EA make admissions more likely somewhere? I just really don't want to get closed out of T-14 or have to go below that with no $.



God I hope this is a flame. BERKELY IS FUCKING IN DUDE. You are above median on both and above 75 on GPA. There are people with 162s getting in with your GPA. There is some randomness but you are a very good candidate.


You are being way overconfident in your predictions.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby Gecko of Doom » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:53 pm

Glock wrote:
Gecko of Doom wrote:

Because in order to be competitive for Stanford with those numbers, you need fantastic softs. If OP is worried about getting dinged from lower T14's because of a lack of softs, there's no way he/she has the softs for Stanford.



Op's fear about lack of softs is irrational. I don't know if that is true that Stanford is out of reach without good softs. In any case it is worth the application. They are not making an exception with those numbers splitting above 25 and 75. More importantly, decent softs can be manufactured. Just talk about working through college in poverty or some shit, then right an essay about how much you have always wanted to go to stanford. It is just barely a reach. Plenty of people get in on LSN, and LSP has him over 50%.

There's always a slight possibility, but look at the people on LSN who got in with those numbers. They all have years of work experience or other great softs.

elgrancombo
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby elgrancombo » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:56 pm

Yeah, forget HYSBCCN, they weren't even on my radar. UVa/Michigan ED, Cornell EA--would that improve my case at those places?

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bk1
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:00 pm

elgrancombo wrote:Yeah, forget HYSBCCN, they weren't even on my radar. UVa/Michigan ED, Cornell EA--would that improve my case at those places?


You should still apply to Berkeley if you would go there and I'd say you should definitely still apply to CCN as well. Mich/UVA will be helped by ED (it is binding), Cornell won't be helped by EA (it is nonbinding).

Too lazy to check LSN to see if HYS are worth it (they probably aren't) but I'd say toss an app anyways considering you have an at least okay chance at CCN already.

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Glock
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby Glock » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:02 pm

bk1 wrote:
Glock wrote:
elgrancombo wrote:
I definitely don't have the softs... I'm not one of these reverse splitters who thinks Berkley is viable because I heard they like GPAs. I was just wondering if my numbers were competitive for Michigan, UVa, Cornell, Duke, etc. Would ED/EA make admissions more likely somewhere? I just really don't want to get closed out of T-14 or have to go below that with no $.



God I hope this is a flame. BERKELY IS FUCKING IN DUDE. You are above median on both and above 75 on GPA. There are people with 162s getting in with your GPA. There is some randomness but you are a very good candidate.


You are being way overconfident in your predictions.



Not really. On LSN 8/10 people got into Boalt with 167, 168 LSAT and a GPA higher than 4.1.

MumofCad
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby MumofCad » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:08 pm

I think you should apply ED to UVA when the application becomes ready. They apparently have a 15 day turnaround. Then you can apply Michigan or another T-14 ED as well, without decreasing your odds of admission. If you are happy with UVA - do it! I think you will have a good shot of getting in on your GPA.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby Gecko of Doom » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:09 pm

elgrancombo wrote:Yeah, forget HYSBCCN, they weren't even on my radar.

I would still apply for CCN and B. They're reaches for you, but you stand enough of a chance to make the app fees worth it.

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bk1
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:10 pm

Glock wrote:Not really. On LSN 8/10 people got into Boalt with 167, 168 LSAT and a GPA higher than 4.1.


Holy fuck did you really comb all the way back to the 03-04 cycle to come up with 10 people who have those numbers? Suffice it to say, on LSN Boalt rejected more 3.8+/168+ applicants (aka people above both medians) this cycle than they accepted which isn't even something that Yale did.

elgrancombo
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby elgrancombo » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:12 pm

Gecko of Doom wrote:
elgrancombo wrote:Yeah, forget HYSBCCN, they weren't even on my radar.

I would still apply for CCN and B. They're reaches for you, but you stand enough of a chance to make the app fees worth it.


Yeah, I saw some people get Chicago with my numbers. They seem less LSAT-oriented than Columbia/NYU.

Also, would UVa ED be a reach for me? I know ED increases undergrad admissions chances, but not sure about the law school admissions process

elgrancombo
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby elgrancombo » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:15 pm

Also, I want to practice PI law (hopefully at a high level). Getting the chance to do BigLaw doesn't matter at all to me. I would certainly look to take advantage of schools' LRAP programs after graduating. My interest in the T-14 is really just because I know that PI jobs are becoming increasingly rare in this current climate.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: Chances for T-14?

Postby Gecko of Doom » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:16 pm

elgrancombo wrote:
Gecko of Doom wrote:
elgrancombo wrote:Yeah, forget HYSBCCN, they weren't even on my radar.

I would still apply for CCN and B. They're reaches for you, but you stand enough of a chance to make the app fees worth it.


Yeah, I saw some people get Chicago with my numbers. They seem less LSAT-oriented than Columbia/NYU.

Also, would UVa ED be a reach for me? I know ED increases undergrad admissions chances, but not sure about the law school admissions process

Not at all. I think you have a great chance at UVA ED. If you're sure you're ok with UVA, it could be a good choice.




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