Top Law Schools

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Get a real LSAT score. Engineering is a nice thing to have but not going to help in any large way, also softs are not going to be a factor.

Beat your SAT score, got less than a 170. Take the LSAT and come back. Don't predict. Your GPA won't keep you out of any schools, that much I can tell you.

OR enjoy lawschoolnumbers.com

Just get letters from whoever. I'm pretty convinced no one reads them.

Softs are okay.

Sigh. I am positive at least some people read LOR's. Might as well take them seriously.

Why career change? Avoid coming off as a forever in school...

admisionquestion wrote:Sigh. I am positive at least some people read LOR's. Might as well take them seriously.

Why career change? Avoid coming off as a forever in school...

Let's just put it this way. Unless they're shitty, no one cases.

rad law wrote:

admisionquestion wrote:Sigh. I am positive at least some people read LOR's. Might as well take them seriously.

Why career change? Avoid coming off as a forever in school...

Let's just put it this way. Unless they're shitty, no one cases.

Or very personal and from Obama.

Your softs are definitely above average, but I wouldn't say they're spectacular (especially for HYS). Your GPA is very good (especially for your major), but there's absolutely no way to call your cycle without a real LSAT score. 172+ and you'd definitely be a lock at CCN and $$ at many schools below. HYS are always a toss-up for everyone, but a 173+ will give you a fighting chance.

admisionquestion wrote:

rad law wrote:

admisionquestion wrote:Sigh. I am positive at least some people read LOR's. Might as well take them seriously.

Why career change? Avoid coming off as a forever in school...

Let's just put it this way. Unless they're shitty, no one cases.

Or very personal and from Obama.

I got mine from Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. Convinced it kept me out of all these "liberal" schools.

admisionquestion wrote: Or very personal and from Obama.

Charlie got one from Bartlet and the best he could do was Georgetown.

You are definitely in the running for some top schools. Nonetheless, you still need to take the LSAT. Your situation is unique and so the way in which you frame your story and application is critical. I would solicit some advice from a previous, strong law applicant or a good teacher. You only get one personal statement so make it count. You can go the "overcame adversity" route or leave that as a sidenote and emphasize your desire for IP and expertise. My recommendation: the latter as sometimes a Masters can show a lack of direction and you have no true work experience. Your LORs will suffer as they'll be purely academic. Top schools want leaders. I have a few ideas though that might close this gap - PM me if interested.

- Bill

I don't think having an engineering degree from an Ivy will hold you back that much.

...but bombing the LSAT might.

Take it, then ask your question.

BillW wrote:You are definitely in the running for some top schools. Nonetheless, you still need to take the LSAT. Your situation is unique and so the way in which you frame your story and application is critical. I would solicit some advice from a previous, strong law applicant or a good teacher. You only get one personal statement so make it count. You can go the "overcame adversity" route or leave that as a sidenote and emphasize your desire for IP and expertise. My recommendation: the latter as sometimes a Masters can show a lack of direction and you have no true work experience. Your LORs will suffer as they'll be purely academic. Top schools want leaders. I have a few ideas though that might close this gap - PM me if interested.

- Bill

How much do your ideas cost?

I love how this poster just assumes "also would consider a full ride at UT-Austin if offered."

A 3.88 (or even a 4.0) is not ANY guarantee you will have a shot at even a T1... let alone a T15.

Without an LSAT score all of these predictions are just wishful thinking. There have been numerous people on these forums with ~4.0 GPA's and then bombed the LSAT. They always talk along the lines "how did this happen? I'm SO smart. I'm SO unique. Why is this stupid test preventing me from going to the school I know I should go to?"

If the poster is not in the top 10% of LSAT takers she can forget the T14. Even with a 3.9 GPA. Top 10% is harder said than done. And, if she really wants to be at HYS, she better aim for top 2-4% minimum.

I didn't read the prediction. "170 AT LEAST." This is ludicrous. I hope there is at least a timed PT to confirm a high 160's to back up this statement.

THE LSAT IS NOT THE SAT OR THE GRE. The GRE is basically a more complicated version of the SAT. The LSAT is VERY different.

This is the kind of person that goes to law school expecting to ace all of the exams using the same techniques they used in undergrad/grad school. Then final grades are report. Then a lot of happens

kapital98 wrote:I didn't read the prediction. "170 AT LEAST." This is ludicrous. I hope there is at least a timed PT to confirm a high 160's to back up this statement.

THE LSAT IS NOT THE SAT OR THE GRE. The GRE is basically a more complicated version of the SAT. The LSAT is VERY different.

This is the kind of person that goes to law school expecting to ace all of the exams using the same techniques they used in undergrad/grad school. Then final grades are report. Then a lot of happens

Smart people are smart. If she is dedicated she should get a 170 easily.

Desert Fox wrote: Smart people are smart. If she is dedicated she should get a 170 easily.

+1. Let's not understate a 3.88 in a hard major at an Ivy League. At the very least this person deserves the benefit of the doubt.

admisionquestion wrote:Sigh. I am positive at least some people read LOR's. Might as well take them seriously.

Why career change? Avoid coming off as a forever in school...

FWIW, UVA definitely read mine. They were specifically mentioned in my acceptance letter.

Gizmo wrote:

Desert Fox wrote: Smart people are smart. If she is dedicated she should get a 170 easily.

+1. Let's not understate a 3.88 in a hard major at an Ivy League. At the very least this person deserves the benefit of the doubt.

You can definitely strive your way into high grades, especailly at Ivy League schools which give an insane amount of A's. But that shows dedication and at least a smart baseline.

But her SAT also shows she is good at standardized tests.

I'd get she gets 170.

But giving her advice without an LSAT is stupid. With her GPA, her results are hypersenstive to LSAT differences. A couple points might been the difference between paying sticker at Michigan and getting a Hamilton.

Desert Fox wrote:

Gizmo wrote:

Desert Fox wrote: Smart people are smart. If she is dedicated she should get a 170 easily.

+1. Let's not understate a 3.88 in a hard major at an Ivy League. At the very least this person deserves the benefit of the doubt.

You can definitely strive your way into high grades, especailly at Ivy League schools which give an insane amount of A's. But that shows dedication and at least a smart baseline.

But her SAT also shows she is good at standardized tests.

I'd get she gets 170.

But giving her advice without an LSAT is stupid. With her GPA, her results are hypersenstive to LSAT differences. A couple points might been the difference between paying sticker at Michigan and getting a Hamilton.

This was exactly my point. Until tehre is a concrete number to compare, it is very difficult to predict.

kapital98 wrote:I didn't read the prediction. "170 AT LEAST." This is ludicrous. I hope there is at least a timed PT to confirm a high 160's to back up this statement.

THE LSAT IS NOT THE SAT OR THE GRE. The GRE is basically a more complicated version of the SAT. The LSAT is VERY different.

This is the kind of person that goes to law school expecting to ace all of the exams using the same techniques they used in undergrad/grad school. Then final grades are report. Then a lot of happens

Deep breath everbody...."this is the kind of person..." is a pretty bold thing to say about someone with a track record of success... I am not claiming that getting good grades in UG will ensure anything just that your over reacting to a pretty normal "chance me" thread.

bioengineer wrote: predict 170 AT LEAST

I LOL'd

Paraflam wrote:

bioengineer wrote: predict 170 AT LEAST

I LOL'd

Yall chill out... LSAT is learnable. Clearly boy genius is a gunner. its not crazy to predict a 170...

admisionquestion wrote:Sigh. I am positive at least some people read LOR's. Might as well take them seriously.

Why career change? Avoid coming off as a forever in school...

maybe just to make sure the person doesn't say "he's a sociopath don't trust him"

I predict OP gets a 166 and goes to a T30 at half scholarship

[quote="bioengineer"]hey guys here are my stats....really hoping for HYS, also would love to be in NYC at NYU or Columbia, but def. open to other options. Also would consider a full-ride at UT-Austin if offered. I know a lot will depend on my LSAT, but based on this do I have a good shot? Any suggestions for what to mention in the PS or where to get LORs? Will my engineering background and master’s degree help? Do I have any good softs? edit-i have a fee waiver so i can apply to a lot of schools if needed


Female at Ivy League University (Undergrad and Grad at same school)

Technically I am a 5th year senior for financial reasons (to still receive financial aid) but will graduate in December with both my undergraduate and graduate degrees

GPA: 3.88 (will be higher because I have 2 A+s that don’t count at my school)
LSAT: taking in October (good test taker, 2300 SAT) predict 170 AT LEAST
Major (BSE): Bioengineering
Masters (MSE): Bioengineering

LOR: not sure who I would get them from because a lot of my coursework has been science, but I do have an A+ from a writing class I took over the summer and she loved me but she was only a graduate student teacher. Potentially some extremely well-known researchers but will that hold weight at law schools? I have a close relationship with a lab tech who is in charge of all the lab work for my major. Advice for where to look for letters with an engineering background?

Random Info:
Junior Year Abroad at Oxford University (studied Engineering)
Summer Capitol Hill Internship for a Member of Congress (was part of a program geared towards women in technology)
TA for a laboratory class in my major, worked for an extremely famous professor in his field
Interested in IP, so patent bar eligible
Tau Beta Pi Engineering Honor Society
Dual citizen of US and UK, lived in UK for 3 years during elementary school
Family is low income, family filed for bankruptcy during college, struggled with living expenses and have completely financed by own education with grants, loans, and scholarships
Random clubs (SWE, Democrats), intramurals (softball captain), novice rowing at oxford, honor societies, working in laboratories, some research experience--- (in general pretty generic ECs).[/quote]


None of this matters wthout an actual LSAT score. And even then, it only matters what your GPA and LSAT score are. No one cares about the rest.