GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

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richalvarez
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GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby richalvarez » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:41 pm

I'm curious if adcoms look at your addendums carefully, or just see a low raw score and move on. I went to a junior college straight out of high school, being that it was work or school, and I didn't really take it serious and got C's and worse. I gave up on school and entered the work force, but after about 4-5 years I decided school was indeed for me and began taking classes again. I got my B.S in Accounting with a 3.4, but once LSAC receives my dreadful JC grades my GPA will plummet to a 2.96 (used an lsac gpa calculator online). I've always tested well and I'm doing an intense 3-month prep for the October LSAT, assuming I do well (167+), what are the odds that a school would make an exception for me?

School's I'm interested in:
UCLA
USD
USC

Background info:
Mexican, business owner since 2008, single-father while going through college and running business on side, and 2 semi-recent DUI's :(

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NYCbound35
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby NYCbound35 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:48 pm

You're going to have some trouble finding another Mexican American splitter with C+F issues, so don't expect many first hand accounts. I don't think UCLA/USC is going to happen with that GPA. Worth the app fees though. Youre probably good at UCD/H and the rest of the middle/lower tier Cali schools though.


and come back with a real score

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bk1
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:51 pm

It makes no sense to try and figure out your chances without a real LSAT. If you want to play around with different number combos, take a look at http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com

Ignoring your DUI's because I don't know how bad that will hurt you, getting a good CA school is going to be ridiculously hard. USC/UCLA are almost assuredly out no matter your LSAT and UCD/UCH/UCI would still be really tough with a good LSAT and you really shouldn't go to any school worse than UCD/UCH/UCI.

bdubs
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby bdubs » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:53 pm

Despite their penchant for high GPAs, both USC and UCLA let in some low 3.0 splitters last cycle (look on LSN charts). You need to write a good PS, DS, and hope that your DUIs don't knock you out of the running.

richalvarez
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby richalvarez » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:55 pm

NYCbound35 wrote:You're going to have some trouble finding another Mexican American splitter with C+F issues, so don't expect many first hand accounts. I don't think UCLA/USC is going to happen with that GPA. Worth the app fees though. Youre probably good at UCD/H and the rest of the middle/lower tier Cali schools though.


and come back with a real score


Thank you. I know I need an actual LSAT score before you guys can give me some real feedback. I guess I was just more interested in knowing if a school would consider the fact that I got a 3.4 for 4 years and that the 2.96 is not a real reflection of my academic ability, but more so a product of an immature, uncertain time in my life.

bdubs
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby bdubs » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:04 pm

richalvarez wrote:
NYCbound35 wrote:You're going to have some trouble finding another Mexican American splitter with C+F issues, so don't expect many first hand accounts. I don't think UCLA/USC is going to happen with that GPA. Worth the app fees though. Youre probably good at UCD/H and the rest of the middle/lower tier Cali schools though.


and come back with a real score


Thank you. I know I need an actual LSAT score before you guys can give me some real feedback. I guess I was just more interested in knowing if a school would consider the fact that I got a 3.4 for 4 years and that the 2.96 is not a real reflection of my academic ability, but more so a product of an immature, uncertain time in my life.


Even a 3.4 is well below average at the schools you listed. You really need a high LSAT and a well composed application to have any shot at those schools.

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NYCbound35
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby NYCbound35 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:08 pm

richalvarez wrote:
NYCbound35 wrote:You're going to have some trouble finding another Mexican American splitter with C+F issues, so don't expect many first hand accounts. I don't think UCLA/USC is going to happen with that GPA. Worth the app fees though. Youre probably good at UCD/H and the rest of the middle/lower tier Cali schools though.


and come back with a real score


Thank you. I know I need an actual LSAT score before you guys can give me some real feedback. I guess I was just more interested in knowing if a school would consider the fact that I got a 3.4 for 4 years and that the 2.96 is not a real reflection of my academic ability, but more so a product of an immature, uncertain time in my life.



They are just going to look at the 2.96

richalvarez
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby richalvarez » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:09 pm

bdubs wrote:Even a 3.4 is well below average at the schools you listed. You really need a high LSAT and a well composed application to have any shot at those schools.


True. Well, I guess my time would be best spent studying and I'll worry about everything else once I have concrete numbers. Thanks again everyone.

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bgdddymtty
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby bgdddymtty » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:13 pm

I had a very similar story and numbers (3.5 GPA after coming back to school, 2.95 LSAC GPA), and I got into UVa ED. However, my LSAT was 180, so that obviously made a huge difference. Some schools seem to have GPA "floors," while others are going to look at individual circumstances and weigh things more carefully. The DUI's are probably going to be a fairly big deal, though.

nelaw2010
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby nelaw2010 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:14 pm

I don't about the DUI.

I had a 3.0 and a 167, and you can see where I got in:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/nelaw2010/jd


I'm also Latino.

schooner
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby schooner » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:20 pm

Are you sure those junior college grades will even be counted? LSAC policy says --

Grades Excluded from Conversion

Those given for remedial courses only if the transcript clearly indicates they are remedial.


You're really not going to get a definitive LSAC gpa until they complete the report.

What really caught my attention is that you're a single father who'll presumably be trying to support a family while going to school. I think that's the bigger concern here. Do you have a financial plan & support system in place?

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Momentum
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby Momentum » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:40 pm

schooner wrote:Those given for remedial courses only if the transcript clearly indicates they are remedial.
Junior College classes are not necessarily remedial classes. Remedial classes are remedial classes, and they are typically offered at both Junior Colleges and Universities. Unless he took all remedial courses, his Junior College grades will be counted.

richalvarez
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby richalvarez » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:45 pm

schooner wrote:Are you sure those junior college grades will even be counted? LSAC policy says --

Grades Excluded from Conversion

Those given for remedial courses only if the transcript clearly indicates they are remedial.


You're really not going to get a definitive LSAC gpa until they complete the report.

What really caught my attention is that you're a single father who'll presumably be trying to support a family while going to school. I think that's the bigger concern here. Do you have a financial plan & support system in place?


Yes. I've owned my own tax practice for a few years now and I come from a decently financially stable family, so financial support is thankfully not an issue.

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emciosn
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby emciosn » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:51 pm

I think everyone is overlooking how much 2 DUI's are going to hurt you. I think they will hurt you more than your GPA. 1 wouldn't be so bad but 2 is showing a pattern.

Not saying that I think this about you but what if an adcomm looks at your app and sees a great PS about being a single father etc, then sees you have 2 DUI's. He/she may think what is a single father doing driving drunk? What happens to the child if he is jailed/injured/dies. etc. Why didn't he learn his lesson the first time? May kills your credibility a little bit.

I understand that you are probably a pretty good guy that just had a laps in judgement but a stuffy adcomm may not think that way at all.

richalvarez
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby richalvarez » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:54 pm

emciosn wrote:I think everyone is overlooking how much 2 DUI's are going to hurt you. I think they will hurt you more than your GPA. 1 wouldn't be so bad but 2 is showing a pattern.

Not saying that I think this about you but what if an adcomm looks at your app and sees a great PS about being a single father etc, then sees you have 2 DUI's. He/she may think what is a single father doing driving drunk? What happens to the child if he is jailed/injured/dies. etc. Why didn't he learn his lesson the first time? May kills your credibility a little bit.

I understand that you are probably a pretty good guy that just had a laps in judgement but a stuffy adcomm may not think that way at all.


The first DUI was before I was a father, the second was shortly after I became a father and I have stopped drinking entirely since then. I'm involved in recovery programs, but I understand it will adversely affect me.

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emciosn
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby emciosn » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:00 pm

richalvarez wrote:
emciosn wrote:I think everyone is overlooking how much 2 DUI's are going to hurt you. I think they will hurt you more than your GPA. 1 wouldn't be so bad but 2 is showing a pattern.

Not saying that I think this about you but what if an adcomm looks at your app and sees a great PS about being a single father etc, then sees you have 2 DUI's. He/she may think what is a single father doing driving drunk? What happens to the child if he is jailed/injured/dies. etc. Why didn't he learn his lesson the first time? May kills your credibility a little bit.

I understand that you are probably a pretty good guy that just had a laps in judgement but a stuffy adcomm may not think that way at all.




The first DUI was before I was a father, the second was shortly after I became a father and I have stopped drinking entirely since then. I'm involved in recovery programs, but I understand it will adversely affect me.


I would definitely something (briefly) to that effect. I would say you stopped drinking and have some evidence to back that up. Tell them about recovery meetings, AA, X years/months of sobriety, etc. If it has been a few years then it won't be as bad as I have said above.

Dealing with alcoholism, being a single father, etc if written well could make a pretty good PS. Maybe even enough for them to let you slide on the DUI's. I just think they might be more of a battle than the GPA even if you get a good LSAT.

thecactus
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby thecactus » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:24 pm

Write an addendum! I think you maybe have a shot at USC and UCLA if you play your cards right, and that means writing an addendum that addresses both your GPA and your DUI's without sounding like you are making excuses.

richalvarez
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby richalvarez » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:59 pm

thecactus wrote:Write an addendum! I think you maybe have a shot at USC and UCLA if you play your cards right, and that means writing an addendum that addresses both your GPA and your DUI's without sounding like you are making excuses.


Appreciate your optimism, I think I'd have to get a killer LSAT first. I've gotten the powerscore bible set and signed up for the classes, so hopefully I'll do well.

flexityflex86
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby flexityflex86 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:01 pm

I don't think the C+F will kill you particularly because DWI is common. The repeat offense is more what's shitty. It might cancel out some of the URM bonus.

Plus, you don't have a score yet. Everyone thinks they'll get a 167. It would be one thing if you were banging those out on practice tests, but you're not.

With a 167 and URM, I'd think USC would bite. UCLA wouldn't, but some top 14s might.

richalvarez
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby richalvarez » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:32 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:I don't think the C+F will kill you particularly because DWI is common. The repeat offense is more what's shitty. It might cancel out some of the URM bonus.

Plus, you don't have a score yet. Everyone thinks they'll get a 167. It would be one thing if you were banging those out on practice tests, but you're not.

With a 167 and URM, I'd think USC would bite. UCLA wouldn't, but some top 14s might.


Your right. I'm just banking on the fact I've always tested fairly well with no effort at all (29 ACT 93 ASVAB). I realize no test can compare to the LSAT, but it does test skills that can be learned and I believe I can do well with the proper application of effort and theory.

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wtrc
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby wtrc » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:02 pm

The DUI's occurred during the "immature" time with the low GPA?

flexityflex86
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby flexityflex86 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:44 pm

weathercoins wrote:The DUI's occurred during the "immature" time with the low GPA?

they're recent. honestly, i know it's a sham but you might need some alcohol counseling anyway, and it might look good to include on an addendum. if you got two DWI's which means you had quite a few drinks, it can't just be you didn't know your limit as it happened again. you probably drank a lot so why not get some help, and also have a better piece of proof it won't happen again.

also just cause you did well on those tests doesn't mean you'll do well on the LSAT. the average score at Y/H/S undergrad isn't even a 160 (or maybe is just barely), and those kids torched the SAT/ACT.

richalvarez
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby richalvarez » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:55 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:
weathercoins wrote:The DUI's occurred during the "immature" time with the low GPA?

they're recent. honestly, i know it's a sham but you might need some alcohol counseling anyway, and it might look good to include on an addendum. if you got two DWI's which means you had quite a few drinks, it can't just be you didn't know your limit as it happened again. you probably drank a lot so why not get some help, and also have a better piece of proof it won't happen again.

also just cause you did well on those tests doesn't mean you'll do well on the LSAT. the average score at Y/H/S undergrad isn't even a 160 (or maybe is just barely), and those kids torched the SAT/ACT.


I'm in an 18-month program required by the CA DMV, but I take it serious and go to more meetings then I'm required to. Also, I have a great rapport with my alcohol counselor and I'm confident I could get him to write me an LOR, if it'll help.

I agree the LSAT is a one of a kind exam and I'm not resting on my laurels from precious exams, which is why I'm doing an intense 3-month prep for Oct exam.

thecactus
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Re: GPA took a massive hit with LSAC, do I still have a chance?

Postby thecactus » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:07 am

It seems like your application has a lot of positives, and a couple of glaring negatives. But there are things you can do to control that damage. Addendum + LOR should do it. The only question mark is your LSAT score.

I don't think you should get your hopes up too much, but I also do not think nihilistic statements like "do I still have a chance?" are necessarily warranted either.

Good luck!




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