167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

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westinghouse60
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167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

Postby westinghouse60 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:30 pm

Probably not the best time to make this given how fast this forum is moving now, but I can't help it lol.

Just got June scores back- 167 (exactly PT average, although my later ones may have been slightly higher). I feel that I may have had a more few points in me; I didn't do as well on the second LG section as I did on the first one. I'm not totally opposed to retaking, but I've gone through a lot of PTs so far and there aren't many left I haven't taken.

LSAC GPA is 3.39. (How much will this hurt me instead of a 3.4 BTW? I feel it hurts me more than just the quantitative value of the .01)

Degree GPA is ~3.6, very strong upward grade trend.

Considering sending an addendum explaining the lower grades at the start of college. (Don't want to get too in depth into the circumstances).

Softs/Other Info

White male, turning 22 in a few weeks, and NC Resident.

Econ Club, Social Fraternity, Phi Gamma Mu honor society, Internship at District Attorney's office, some community service. Really haven't done that much because over the last few semesters I've taken heavy course loads and made almost all A's, hopefully this will be reflected in my transcript.

Don't have LORs or PS yet, going to start on those now that I have my LSAT taken care of.

So chances:

UVA: (I know I need to retake and ED...would I need 170 or 170+?)
Cornell: (Also know I need a retake...same question as with UVA)
Vanderbilt: (Again, I know, chances are slim)
Emory: (Wouldn't go unless $- what are the chances of this?)
William and Mary:
UNC: (Being an instate resident it's hard to tell from Law School Predictor and LSN exactly where I stand)
UGA:
Washington and Lee:
Wake Forest: ($?- I've heard they give out pretty sizable scholarships to students with LSATs above their 75th percentile?)
Alabama: ($?)

My goal is to work in Big Law, but with that GPA and LSAT I understand its unlikely I'll break T-14 and unreasonable to count on being top 10% at a T-40. If I don't work in a big law market, ceteris paribus, I'd prefer to stay in the south. Anywhere else I should apply too? I know there are several Midwest schools that are pretty splitter friendly. Any of those that have better than average big law placement and would be inclined to give someone with my numbers a scholarship?

Thanks in advance for replies...I've waited for a long time to make this thread :)

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westinghouse60
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Re: 167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

Postby westinghouse60 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:50 pm

bump :(

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Law Sauce
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Re: 167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

Postby Law Sauce » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:07 pm

almost no shot of UVA Cornell, Cornell would probably be a yes with a 170 maybe with a 169, longer shot. UVa is no unless 172+

Dont know too much about the other schools.

UNC you are probably good and with instate that is a good option. Also try Wake, UGA, W&M, W&L (gives a good bit of money), GW, Emory (they have been getting pounded so might give money), bama. These are all solid targets that you should have a good chance at. Vandy is a long shot.

Bama gives a lot of money and UGA is cheap if you get instate. Bama, UNC, UGA, W&M (decently cheap as well) are your best options I would think. But who knows what could happen.

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westinghouse60
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Re: 167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

Postby westinghouse60 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:27 pm

Law Sauce wrote:almost no shot of UVA Cornell, Cornell would probably be a yes with a 170 maybe with a 169, longer shot. UVa is no unless 172+

Dont know too much about the other schools.

UNC you are probably good and with instate that is a good option. Also try Wake, UGA, W&M, W&L (gives a good bit of money), GW, Emory (they have been getting pounded so might give money), bama. These are all solid targets that you should have a good chance at. Vandy is a long shot.

Bama gives a lot of money and UGA is cheap if you get instate. Bama, UNC, UGA, W&M (decently cheap as well) are your best options I would think. But who knows what could happen.


Yeah I figured that UVA, Cornell, and Vandy were all out of reach. Any suggestions for where I should apply as reach schools? It seems like my top choices (UNC etc) are pretty good bets to get into (though you're right, anything could happen), and my top choices are almost certainly out. So I guess I'm trying to find some middle ground as far as schools that are neither sure things nor absolutely out.

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Law Sauce
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Re: 167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

Postby Law Sauce » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:35 pm

westinghouse60 wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:almost no shot of UVA Cornell, Cornell would probably be a yes with a 170 maybe with a 169, longer shot. UVa is no unless 172+

Dont know too much about the other schools.

UNC you are probably good and with instate that is a good option. Also try Wake, UGA, W&M, W&L (gives a good bit of money), GW, Emory (they have been getting pounded so might give money), bama. These are all solid targets that you should have a good chance at. Vandy is a long shot.

Bama gives a lot of money and UGA is cheap if you get instate. Bama, UNC, UGA, W&M (decently cheap as well) are your best options I would think. But who knows what could happen.


Yeah I figured that UVA, Cornell, and Vandy were all out of reach. Any suggestions for where I should apply as reach schools? It seems like my top choices (UNC etc) are pretty good bets to get into (though you're right, anything could happen), and my top choices are almost certainly out. So I guess I'm trying to find some middle ground as far as schools that are neither sure things nor absolutely out.


Probably W&M, maybe GW, Fordham, BC, BU though these may be reaches.

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westinghouse60
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Re: 167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

Postby westinghouse60 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:46 pm

Law Sauce wrote:
westinghouse60 wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:almost no shot of UVA Cornell, Cornell would probably be a yes with a 170 maybe with a 169, longer shot. UVa is no unless 172+

Dont know too much about the other schools.

UNC you are probably good and with instate that is a good option. Also try Wake, UGA, W&M, W&L (gives a good bit of money), GW, Emory (they have been getting pounded so might give money), bama. These are all solid targets that you should have a good chance at. Vandy is a long shot.

Bama gives a lot of money and UGA is cheap if you get instate. Bama, UNC, UGA, W&M (decently cheap as well) are your best options I would think. But who knows what could happen.


Yeah I figured that UVA, Cornell, and Vandy were all out of reach. Any suggestions for where I should apply as reach schools? It seems like my top choices (UNC etc) are pretty good bets to get into (though you're right, anything could happen), and my top choices are almost certainly out. So I guess I'm trying to find some middle ground as far as schools that are neither sure things nor absolutely out.


Probably W&M, maybe GW, Fordham, BC, BU though these may be reaches.


Yeah, LSP is putting me as a "weak consider" or "consider" for those. Do you think I'd get any money or is that unlikely given their medians?

Also, LSP says I'm a "consider" at Northwestern with ED. That can't be right?

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Law Sauce
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Re: 167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

Postby Law Sauce » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:29 pm

westinghouse60 wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:
westinghouse60 wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:almost no shot of UVA Cornell, Cornell would probably be a yes with a 170 maybe with a 169, longer shot. UVa is no unless 172+

Dont know too much about the other schools.

UNC you are probably good and with instate that is a good option. Also try Wake, UGA, W&M, W&L (gives a good bit of money), GW, Emory (they have been getting pounded so might give money), bama. These are all solid targets that you should have a good chance at. Vandy is a long shot.

Bama gives a lot of money and UGA is cheap if you get instate. Bama, UNC, UGA, W&M (decently cheap as well) are your best options I would think. But who knows what could happen.


Yeah I figured that UVA, Cornell, and Vandy were all out of reach. Any suggestions for where I should apply as reach schools? It seems like my top choices (UNC etc) are pretty good bets to get into (though you're right, anything could happen), and my top choices are almost certainly out. So I guess I'm trying to find some middle ground as far as schools that are neither sure things nor absolutely out.


Probably W&M, maybe GW, Fordham, BC, BU though these may be reaches.


Yeah, LSP is putting me as a "weak consider" or "consider" for those. Do you think I'd get any money or is that unlikely given their medians?

Also, LSP says I'm a "consider" at Northwestern with ED. That can't be right?


I think money is unlikely at many of those, maybe small money. LSP is old data for one, so take that with a grain of salt. Also, NW does some crazy things with numbers because it values prior Work Experience so much. If you dont have work experience, NW is out.

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westinghouse60
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Re: 167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

Postby westinghouse60 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:48 pm

I guess $$ at Wake, Alabama, UNC in state, etc would be a better option (or safer at least) than Fordham, etc at sticker?

Thanks for all the replies by the way. I've looked at LSN and LSP, but theres some stuff that those sites can't tell you.

$$$$$$
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Re: 167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

Postby $$$$$$ » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:55 pm

Law Sauce wrote:almost no shot of UVA Cornell, Cornell would probably be a yes with a 170 maybe with a 169, longer shot. UVa is no unless 172+

Dont know too much about the other schools.

UNC you are probably good and with instate that is a good option. Also try Wake, UGA, W&M, W&L (gives a good bit of money), GW, Emory (they have been getting pounded so might give money), bama. These are all solid targets that you should have a good chance at. Vandy is a long shot.

Bama gives a lot of money and UGA is cheap if you get instate. Bama, UNC, UGA, W&M (decently cheap as well) are your best options I would think. But who knows what could happen.


This just is not true. If you retake and score a 170+ and ED, you have a legitimate shot at UVA. I cannot speak for cornell or vanderbilt, but i would guess the same is true for them.

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Law Sauce
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Re: 167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

Postby Law Sauce » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:52 am

$$$$$$ wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:almost no shot of UVA Cornell, Cornell would probably be a yes with a 170 maybe with a 169, longer shot. UVa is no unless 172+

Dont know too much about the other schools.

UNC you are probably good and with instate that is a good option. Also try Wake, UGA, W&M, W&L (gives a good bit of money), GW, Emory (they have been getting pounded so might give money), bama. These are all solid targets that you should have a good chance at. Vandy is a long shot.

Bama gives a lot of money and UGA is cheap if you get instate. Bama, UNC, UGA, W&M (decently cheap as well) are your best options I would think. But who knows what could happen.


This just is not true. If you retake and score a 170+ and ED, you have a legitimate shot at UVA. I cannot speak for cornell or vanderbilt, but i would guess the same is true for them.


lol obviously. of course that would be a good idea.

But yea, I think UNC in-state or Bama with significant money is a much much safer choice than Fordham at sticker and I think most on here would agree. But I did not significantly look into this so I am no expert. (didnt apply to any of these schools)

Edit: now I see that you meant to disagree with my assertion that UVa was a no without a 172+. In that sense, I probably actually agree with you with. A 170 and ED probably would get UVA. True. But that is not the current situation we are discussing and it still wouldnt be close to a sure thing.

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westinghouse60
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Re: 167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

Postby westinghouse60 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:25 pm

Law Sauce wrote:
$$$$$$ wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:almost no shot of UVA Cornell, Cornell would probably be a yes with a 170 maybe with a 169, longer shot. UVa is no unless 172+

Dont know too much about the other schools.

UNC you are probably good and with instate that is a good option. Also try Wake, UGA, W&M, W&L (gives a good bit of money), GW, Emory (they have been getting pounded so might give money), bama. These are all solid targets that you should have a good chance at. Vandy is a long shot.

Bama gives a lot of money and UGA is cheap if you get instate. Bama, UNC, UGA, W&M (decently cheap as well) are your best options I would think. But who knows what could happen.


This just is not true. If you retake and score a 170+ and ED, you have a legitimate shot at UVA. I cannot speak for cornell or vanderbilt, but i would guess the same is true for them.


lol obviously. of course that would be a good idea.

But yea, I think UNC in-state or Bama with significant money is a much much safer choice than Fordham at sticker and I think most on here would agree. But I did not significantly look into this so I am no expert. (didnt apply to any of these schools)

Edit: now I see that you meant to disagree with my assertion that UVa was a no without a 172+. In that sense, I probably actually agree with you with. A 170 and ED probably would get UVA. True. But that is not the current situation we are discussing and it still wouldnt be close to a sure thing.


I've taken almost all the prep tests and scored almost exactly my PT average, although I trended up towards more 170+'s at the end. I really would like big law but don't know how I would go about studying for a retake, given that I've used 30-40 PTs. Is retaking for 170+ and shot at T-14 worth it in your opinion? (Just saw that you attend UVA lol).

I realize this is totally subjective question lol but w/e, conventional wisdom (that is, according to people I know in person) would say a retake is insane, but if it weren't for TLS advice of aiming high, I wouldn't have put in the time necessary to get a 167 in the first place.

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Re: 167/3.39 Econ/Poli Sci Double Major

Postby Law Sauce » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:36 pm

westinghouse60 wrote:
I've taken almost all the prep tests and scored almost exactly my PT average, although I trended up towards more 170+'s at the end. I really would like big law but don't know how I would go about studying for a retake, given that I've used 30-40 PTs. Is retaking for 170+ and shot at T-14 worth it in your opinion? (Just saw that you attend UVA lol).

I realize this is totally subjective question lol but w/e, conventional wisdom (that is, according to people I know in person) would say a retake is insane, but if it weren't for TLS advice of aiming high, I wouldn't have put in the time necessary to get a 167 in the first place.


I dont attend UVa yet, I am going soon. Also your scores are solid it is just that for top schools your gpa holds you back. A retake that is 170 will probably give you a shot at Duke, UVa, with ED and Cornell without. This is a whole different level of school and definately worth it imo if you think you can get a 170.

That being said you will get a ton of money from other good schools, check LSN but full ride at Bama seems possible. I also think that this is a really good idea too. I am admittedly less familiar with the nuances of scholarships at some of these t30-t50 schools in the Southeast as this was not my focus when I was applying.

Bottom line, I think that you are in a great place for schools 18 and down and retake seems less necessary for these schools. If you goal is Biglaw or something else prestigious and you are willing to take the risk to get it, then your lsat is right on the verge of being competitive at schools that give you a better shot at this. Every point you add to your lsat will help for schools like Vandy Cornell and MVP with ED. Also you plenty of time to retake in October and still appl this cycle so I would say why not do it unless you think you maxed out already.

For instance, here are the stats of those EDing to UVA on LSN this year, http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/applicants/1011/?lsat2=180&lsatR=true&lsat1=120&lgpa1=1.00&lgpa2=4.33&status=3,4,5,6,7,8&application_type=3&type=jd




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