Chances of getting into GWU?

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firestar35
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Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby firestar35 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:00 pm

I ultimately want to practice Environmental Law, and I know that George Washington University Law School is ranked 9th in the nation for their Envi Law program, and 20th overall...those rankings, and the location, really piqued my interest in the school. I REALLY want to go there, especially after doing some research on it. I know that the 25-75th percentile LSAT score for accepted applicants is ~163-168, and the same for GPA is ~3.4-3.86...But, I'm taking the LSAT for the first time tomorrow, and am worried about the score I'm going to get, and want some advice/opinions on my chances and whatnot. So, here's the lowdown on what I've got to offer:

-Undergraduate College: SUNY Binghamton
-GPA: presently 3.60 (just completed my junior year; expecting to graduate with a GPA of between 3.60 and 3.70 inclusive). I have mostly As and A-s, several B+s and Bs, a few B-s, and one C+ (which I got in Organic Chemistry *shudder*). I'll graduate with cum laude at the very least, and maybe magna cum laude if I can reach 3.70.
-Majors: Biology (with a concentration in Evolution, Ecology & Behavior; B.S.) and Environmental Studies (concentration in Environmental Policy and Law; B.A.)
-Internships: Paid summer internship with Lester, Schwab, Katz & Dwyer, LLP (defense litigation firm) summer 2009; summer internship with New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (with the Office of General Counsel/Legal Division) summer 2011 (i.e. right now).
-Will be President of my school's Environmental Awareness Club this coming year
-Member of Sigma Alpha Lambda (national honor society focused mostly on volunteer work)
-Might be able to be a ResCon (kind of like Geek Squad, though they don't deal with hardware issues) next year
-Letters of Recommendation: I know they're not necessary for GWU, but I definitely plan to include them. And I'm pretty certain the ones I get will be stellar. One of them will probably be from the attorney who taught my Envi Law class (for which I had the highest grades in the class).
-Expected LSAT Score: probably somewhere between 155 and 160
-I do plan to take the LSAT again, and I know they look at both but give weight to the higher score. I also plan to apply Early Decision if I can.
-Oh, and I'm a white female. But they're just going to know I'm female, since I always choose not to disclose my ethnicity.

Hope this information is sufficient, and I greatly appreciate any advice you guys can offer. Thanks in advance!



EDIT: Guess I should also probably mention...I kind of need financial aid. I'm a dependent, and my parents are in the midst of declaring bankruptcy to forestall us going into foreclosure on our house...I have to lend my parents money, and the only money I have is from the internship I had 2 years ago, and I guess money from the financial aid my school gives me (mostly grants, the rest being from subsidized loans)...so the full scholarship would kind of be important. >_>;; lol.
Last edited by firestar35 on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:09 pm

From what I hear, ED at GWU is more difficult that RD because ED admits are given full tuition scholarships. These are usually students above both 75 percentiles on LSAT and GPA. With your GPA, you will need about the median LSAT score, maybe a point higher to be comfortable with your chances.

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DeeCee
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby DeeCee » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:16 pm

I had a 157/UG 3.95/Grad 4.0/semi-URM when I applied and I was WL. You need a 165+ for good results.

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:53 pm

firestar35 wrote:I ultimately want to practice Environmental Law, and I know that George Washington University Law School is ranked 9th in the nation for their Envi Law program, and 20th overall...those rankings, and the location, really piqued my interest in the school. I REALLY want to go there, especially after doing some research on it. I know that the 25-75th percentile LSAT score for accepted applicants is ~163-168, and the same for GPA is ~3.4-3.86...But, I'm taking the LSAT for the first time tomorrow, and am worried about the score I'm going to get, and want some advice/opinions on my chances and whatnot. So, here's the lowdown on what I've got to offer:

-Undergraduate College: SUNY Binghamton
-GPA: presently 3.60 (just completed my junior year; expecting to graduate with a GPA of between 3.60 and 3.70 inclusive). I have mostly As and A-s, several B+s and Bs, a few B-s, and one C+ (which I got in Organic Chemistry *shudder*). I'll graduate with cum laude at the very least, and maybe magna cum laude if I can reach 3.70.
-Majors: Biology (with a concentration in Evolution, Ecology & Behavior; B.S.) and Environmental Studies (concentration in Environmental Policy and Law; B.A.)
-Internships: Paid summer internship with Lester, Schwab, Katz & Dwyer, LLP (defense litigation firm) summer 2009; summer internship with New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (with the Office of General Counsel/Legal Division) summer 2011 (i.e. right now).
-Will be President of my school's Environmental Awareness Club this coming year
-Member of Sigma Alpha Lambda (national honor society focused mostly on volunteer work)
-Might be able to be a ResCon (kind of like Geek Squad, though they don't deal with hardware issues) next year
-Letters of Recommendation: I know they're not necessary for GWU, but I definitely plan to include them. And I'm pretty certain the ones I get will be stellar. One of them will probably be from the attorney who taught my Envi Law class (for which I had the highest grades in the class).
-Expected LSAT Score: probably somewhere between 155 and 160
-I do plan to take the LSAT again, and I know they look at both but give weight to the higher score. I also plan to apply Early Decision if I can.
-Oh, and I'm a white female. But they're just going to know I'm female, since I always choose not to disclose my ethnicity.

Hope this information is sufficient, and I greatly appreciate any advice you guys can offer. Thanks in advance!



EDIT: Guess I should also probably mention...I kind of need financial aid. I'm a dependent, and my parents are in the midst of declaring bankruptcy to forestall us going into foreclosure on our house...I have to lend my parents money, and the only money I have is from the internship I had 2 years ago, and I guess money from the financial aid my school gives me (mostly grants, the rest being from subsidized loans)...so the full scholarship would kind of be important. >_>;; lol.



Sorry to give you a depressing response on your first post and just before you take the lsat, but since you ask, I gotta say that even with a 160 you will very likely not get into GW.

Also, all law grad students are classified as independent, simple as that.

Also, the federal loans you get are maxed out at what your school claims is necessary for you to attend. If the school gives you a scholarship, that is subtracted from the amount you can take out in federal loans. (I add this because it sounded like you wanted to give this money to your parents).

Also, I'm very sorry about your parents, but I don't think financing your parents with your loans (which you cannot declare bankruptcy on) is a good idea. And the school grants (scholarship) you want to lend your parents, that doesn't work either, because the school doesn't give you the scholarship money (from what a 0L knows), they just deduct it from what you owe them in tuition.

To be honest, this post is so full of ignorance I almost want to call flame (esp since it's you're first post), but I'll leave that to someone else.

firestar35
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby firestar35 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:23 am

To be honest, this post is so full of ignorance I almost want to call flame (esp since it's you're first post), but I'll leave that to someone else.



Woah dude. No need to be a jerk. :/ Seriously? And no, I don't use that money to give to my parents, etc. Look, I wanted constructive criticism, not to be called ignorant. If you don't want to offer any constructive criticism, then don't post a reply here.

firestar35
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby firestar35 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:34 am

I hoped that the people on this board would be more mature than those posting on boards like College Confidential (for undergrad)... :/

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NYC Law
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby NYC Law » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:41 am

firestar35 wrote:I hoped that the people on this board would be more mature than those posting on boards like College Confidential (for undergrad)... :/


You got mostly helpful replies, much better than average actually for not having a real LSAT score.
Not sure what you're complaining about other than the ignorance comment, but you have to realize these boards get trolled pretty hard.

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:43 am

firestar35 wrote:
To be honest, this post is so full of ignorance I almost want to call flame (esp since it's you're first post), but I'll leave that to someone else.



Woah dude. No need to be a jerk. :/ Seriously? And no, I don't use that money to give to my parents, etc. Look, I wanted constructive criticism, not to be called ignorant. If you don't want to offer any constructive criticism, then don't post a reply here.


Sorry, you're right, it wasn't deserved. But you could have gotten a couple of answers just from reading the existing info on this website.

firestar35
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby firestar35 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:46 am

NYC Law wrote:
firestar35 wrote:I hoped that the people on this board would be more mature than those posting on boards like College Confidential (for undergrad)... :/


You got mostly helpful replies, much better than average actually for not having a real LSAT score.
Not sure what you're complaining about other than the ignorance comment, but you have to realize these boards get trolled pretty hard.



Yeah, I was only referring to the ignorance comment. I appreciate the replies from the first two posters, and thank both of them.

firestar35
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby firestar35 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:47 am

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
firestar35 wrote:
To be honest, this post is so full of ignorance I almost want to call flame (esp since it's you're first post), but I'll leave that to someone else.



Woah dude. No need to be a jerk. :/ Seriously? And no, I don't use that money to give to my parents, etc. Look, I wanted constructive criticism, not to be called ignorant. If you don't want to offer any constructive criticism, then don't post a reply here.


Sorry, you're right, it wasn't deserved. But you could have gotten a couple of answers just from reading the existing info on this website.




...I did get basic info, as I wrote in the OP...I just wanted more specific opinions based on my individual circumstances. -_-;

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:41 am

firestar35 wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:
firestar35 wrote:
To be honest, this post is so full of ignorance I almost want to call flame (esp since it's you're first post), but I'll leave that to someone else.



Woah dude. No need to be a jerk. :/ Seriously? And no, I don't use that money to give to my parents, etc. Look, I wanted constructive criticism, not to be called ignorant. If you don't want to offer any constructive criticism, then don't post a reply here.


Sorry, you're right, it wasn't deserved. But you could have gotten a couple of answers just from reading the existing info on this website.




...I did get basic info, as I wrote in the OP...I just wanted more specific opinions based on my individual circumstances. -_-;

TFL was right about all of the loan versus scholarship stuff. You don't get any actual scholarship money in a check unless you had a COL stipend. Unfortunately, with a decent - as opposed to very strong - GPA, you will not likely get a full tuition scholarship regardless of your LSAT score. Your soft factors are OK, but nothing that will cause you to outperform your numbers unfortunately.

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apple1234
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby apple1234 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:10 am

I was waitlisted with a 166 and a 3.8.....

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dpk711
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby dpk711 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:53 am

Come back with a real score. Regardless, even if you score a 160 you have no chance.

firestar35
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby firestar35 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:15 pm

I think I should probably clarify about the money comment, as everyone seems to be misunderstanding what I wrote. When I said I have to lend my parents money, I didn't mean I need the scholarship money so I can lend it to them. I was just trying to give an example of how bad off my parents (and consequently I) am financially, and how I need to use whatever little money I have to pay for myself...In other words, I can't afford to go to law school without a scholarship, or at the very least loans. My parents cannot help me pay for it, because *I* had to help *them* - not to say I'm going to continue lending them money. At this point, I can't afford to, and don't plan to. The scholarship would help me out a lot, because it would reduce the money I need to divert to paying for school. That's all I was trying to say.



With regard to getting into GWU, I've accepted that I'm probably not getting in, at least not without a score in the high 160s or greater. I'm not thrilled, but I'm okay with it. I'm looking into University of Maryland now, which looks a lot more within my reach. Plus, their Envi Law program is ranked 4th as compared to GWU's, which is ranked 9th. It isn't ranked as high as GWU overall, but I'll get over it. U Maryland is starting to grow on me now.


That said, I just got back from taking the LSAT a couple hours ago, and I guess I'll find out what my next course of action will be in a few weeks.


Thank you again to everyone who commented, especially JamMasterJ. I really appreciate the advice.

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DeeCee
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby DeeCee » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:21 am

firestar35 wrote:I think I should probably clarify about the money comment, as everyone seems to be misunderstanding what I wrote. When I said I have to lend my parents money, I didn't mean I need the scholarship money so I can lend it to them. I was just trying to give an example of how bad off my parents (and consequently I) am financially, and how I need to use whatever little money I have to pay for myself...In other words, I can't afford to go to law school without a scholarship, or at the very least loans. My parents cannot help me pay for it, because *I* had to help *them* - not to say I'm going to continue lending them money. At this point, I can't afford to, and don't plan to. The scholarship would help me out a lot, because it would reduce the money I need to divert to paying for school. That's all I was trying to say.



With regard to getting into GWU, I've accepted that I'm probably not getting in, at least not without a score in the high 160s or greater. I'm not thrilled, but I'm okay with it. I'm looking into University of Maryland now, which looks a lot more within my reach. Plus, their Envi Law program is ranked 4th as compared to GWU's, which is ranked 9th. It isn't ranked as high as GWU overall, but I'll get over it. U Maryland is starting to grow on me now.


That said, I just got back from taking the LSAT a couple hours ago, and I guess I'll find out what my next course of action will be in a few weeks.


Thank you again to everyone who commented, especially JamMasterJ. I really appreciate the advice.


So I posted earlier about needing a 165+ score. I was in your shoes a year ago, as far as wanting to attend a school that was strong in Enviro law. I also applied and got into Maryland with a scholarship in which they paid my way to interview. However, over the course of the past year, I learned there are so many more important reasons to choose a school than just because you want to study enviro law. Cost, ranking, placement in your preferred region, and general fit are all good reasons. Typically most schools have enviro law, and some focus more than others. However, don't get caught up in the official enviro law ranking. Overall school ranking and prestige is so much more important. Say you do get a 160-- I think you should reevaluate what is important to you (as well as attending a school strong in enviro law), and adjust your dreams accordingly, or you'll have to retake.

Really, 165 is about as low of a score you can get to get into GW. But do you really want to go there at sticker? All of these reasons are why I chose UNC (plus the in-state tuition). Seriously do more research, make a pros and cons list, and see where your goals fit.

firestar35
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby firestar35 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:32 am

DeeCee wrote: So I posted earlier about needing a 165+ score. I was in your shoes a year ago, as far as wanting to attend a school that was strong in Enviro law. I also applied and got into Maryland with a scholarship in which they paid my way to interview. However, over the course of the past year, I learned there are so many more important reasons to choose a school than just because you want to study enviro law. Cost, ranking, placement in your preferred region, and general fit are all good reasons. Typically most schools have enviro law, and some focus more than others. However, don't get caught up in the official enviro law ranking. Overall school ranking and prestige is so much more important. Say you do get a 160-- I think you should reevaluate what is important to you (as well as attending a school strong in enviro law), and adjust your dreams accordingly, or you'll have to retake.

Really, 165 is about as low of a score you can get to get into GW. But do you really want to go there at sticker? All of these reasons are why I chose UNC (plus the in-state tuition). Seriously do more research, make a pros and cons list, and see where your goals fit.


All very good points. One thing I know for sure is that I want to practice environmental law. To be completely honest with you, it's not that I want to practice to law, and have settled on Envi Law. It's that I want to advocate on behalf of the environment (idealistic/naive, perhaps, but it's been my ultimate goal for a long time), and have decided that the legal arena is the most suitable one for achieving those ends. Maybe I won't end up just attorney; maybe I'll go into politics. Who knows. But I do know that going to law school is a good place to start. And I know that I enjoy learning about the law, and it seems to be something I'm capable of doing well in, especially if my Environmental Law and Policy class and my present internship are any indication. One of the reasons I'm now interested in the D.C. area is because I've heard it's "a hotbed for environmental activity". I also agree that the overall rank is extremely important. A lot of people have been telling me to go to Vermont Law, or Pace, and while I said I'd think about it, I honestly know I'd never go to those schools, no matter how much money they offer me, just because, well...they're not highly ranked overall. While I definitely intend to practice environmental law, I'm aware I might have to practice law in other fields as well, and going to a school that's only ranked high for its envi program won't be of as much help to me as one that's highly ranked there as well as highly ranked overall.


Sorry for the long-winded response, haha. Anyway, thank you again. I'll definitely take you up on your advice and continue doing more research. :)

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DeeCee
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Re: Chances of getting into GWU?

Postby DeeCee » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:12 pm

firestar35 wrote:
DeeCee wrote: So I posted earlier about needing a 165+ score. I was in your shoes a year ago, as far as wanting to attend a school that was strong in Enviro law. I also applied and got into Maryland with a scholarship in which they paid my way to interview. However, over the course of the past year, I learned there are so many more important reasons to choose a school than just because you want to study enviro law. Cost, ranking, placement in your preferred region, and general fit are all good reasons. Typically most schools have enviro law, and some focus more than others. However, don't get caught up in the official enviro law ranking. Overall school ranking and prestige is so much more important. Say you do get a 160-- I think you should reevaluate what is important to you (as well as attending a school strong in enviro law), and adjust your dreams accordingly, or you'll have to retake.

Really, 165 is about as low of a score you can get to get into GW. But do you really want to go there at sticker? All of these reasons are why I chose UNC (plus the in-state tuition). Seriously do more research, make a pros and cons list, and see where your goals fit.


All very good points. One thing I know for sure is that I want to practice environmental law. To be completely honest with you, it's not that I want to practice to law, and have settled on Envi Law. It's that I want to advocate on behalf of the environment (idealistic/naive, perhaps, but it's been my ultimate goal for a long time), and have decided that the legal arena is the most suitable one for achieving those ends. Maybe I won't end up just attorney; maybe I'll go into politics. Who knows. But I do know that going to law school is a good place to start. And I know that I enjoy learning about the law, and it seems to be something I'm capable of doing well in, especially if my Environmental Law and Policy class and my present internship are any indication. One of the reasons I'm now interested in the D.C. area is because I've heard it's "a hotbed for environmental activity". I also agree that the overall rank is extremely important. A lot of people have been telling me to go to Vermont Law, or Pace, and while I said I'd think about it, I honestly know I'd never go to those schools, no matter how much money they offer me, just because, well...they're not highly ranked overall. While I definitely intend to practice environmental law, I'm aware I might have to practice law in other fields as well, and going to a school that's only ranked high for its envi program won't be of as much help to me as one that's highly ranked there as well as highly ranked overall.


Sorry for the long-winded response, haha. Anyway, thank you again. I'll definitely take you up on your advice and continue doing more research. :)


This was sort of the point I was trying to drive home. Although Pace and Vermont are known for env law, I honestly wouldn't go there either. I have a BA and MA in an environmental science and conservation field so I know how you feel. But I just want to point out that you shouldn't settle just because of the env law rankings. Example, Pace-- known for env law but laughed at for just about everything else. So it's a balancing act. For me, I was extremely focused on DC as well, but I compromised on location and stayed in my home state because of the $$ difference. Because I am very debt-averse, UNC made the most sense for me. Tuition is only 17k (in-state), and I know I want to do public interest work, so debt is a #1 priority. Plus, UNC has a high number of graduates working in the public interest, so I feel comfortable there.

If you can get a high score on the LSAT, GW could work out. Otherwise, I think paying sticker at such a costly school, due to having a low LSAT and not being able to pick up a scholarship, would not be a wise decision. If you didn't score in the 165 range for this test, there's always the October test.




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