162 LSAT/3.32 UGPA...Chance me for 2011/2012 cycle! Forum

[Cartman]

Hello fellow TLSers,

I'm going to be applying this coming fall and have been compiling a list of the schools I'm interested in attending, and am making a rather large list (why not see who will take me?). I would also be interested in knowing how many schools are likely to offer me any scholly $$, and how much. More than likely if I get accepted to the reach schools, I'd end up paying sticker (or close to it.)

So here's the preliminary list:

Reach schools:
University of Washington
University of California Irvine
University of California Davis
University of Colorado - Boulder
University of Wisconsin

Borderline Reach/Target: These I feel aren't "as reach" but are close.
Arizona State University
University of Arizona
American University

Target schools:
Lewis & Clark University
University of Connecticut
Northeastern

Safety schools:
Seattle University
Santa Clara University

If anyone see's something they think sounds about the area that I may have left out, let me know! I have two strong LoR's lined up, one from the chair of the Philosophy dept. at the university I'm at, and the other from another professor. My softs are decent: some community service to speak of, working part-time throughout college.

The real big one here (and although I heard in another post and believe it to be true that everyone on TLS has an upward GPA trend) is a massive upward trend (to the tune of about a 3.85 in the last 2 years of school. My poor overall GPA was due to a couple F's I received during the first year at a local community college as I figured out what the hell I wanted to do with my life. Once I decided, I set my mind to it. The second year at the community college and the next 2 years at the university I transferred to were excellent. The 3.85 GPA is the GPA since transferring to the university from the community college (last 2 years.)

I'm very skeptical about how much statistics like that actually count though, as we all know that upward trends aren't reported to USNews

So, go forth and be gentle fellow TSL'ers. Or give it to me straight, I'm a big man and can handle it.

Edit: As for the Reach schools, I feel as though the best shot I'd have from those is maybe University of Wisconsin, and perhaps (if I'm lucky) a waitlist from Boulder.

[red_alertz]

you are being too humble, that's a good GPA and LSAT, should have good shots in all of your reach schools

[handlesthetruth]

you are being too humble, that's a good GPA and LSAT, should have good shots in all of your reach schools

no

LSP:
Washington -- Deny
University of California Davis -- 39%
University of Colorado - Boulder -- Deny
University of Wisconsin -- 51%
Arizona State University -- 45%
University of Arizona -- 39%
American University --50%

[Cartman]

you are being too humble, that's a good GPA and LSAT, should have good shots in all of your reach schools

no

LSP:
Washington -- Deny
University of California Davis -- 39%
University of Colorado - Boulder -- Deny
University of Wisconsin -- 51%
Arizona State University -- 45%
University of Arizona -- 39%
American University --50%

Yeah, I wish I was being humble, but thank you for the kind words sir red_alertz. I did look at LSP and those are more or less the numbers...I also looked at the graphs on law school numbers and on TLS here...it looks more or less like hit and miss on some of the schools on my list. Washington and Boulder are a couple of the further reaches, but with ASU, UA, American, Wisconsin, Davis etc. it looks like some have hit the mark and some haven't. It's hard looking for that demarcating line that seems to separate hits and near-misses.

Anyone else have input? Perhaps applied to some of these schools with similar numbers? Or have inputs as to potential $$ (if any at all)? Also, I know users on TLS Loooooooves with a capital L to advocate retakes, but I don't know how beneficial one would be to me. Personally, I don't really want to practice "biglaw" working at a high-powered private firm in downtown insert city here. I don't think that I'd thrive in that environment, and would probably be much happier working in the public sector, perhaps for a governmental organization or even in a small to medium size law firm if I went into the private sector even if that's not where the money is. Anyone have any suggestions on schools if that's the case?

I know a lot of TLS users are gunning for T-14 BigLaw, but so long as I have enough $$ to pay back student loans and live comfortably I'd prefer to avoid it. Thanks again for the continuing input!

[red_alertz]

you are being too humble, that's a good GPA and LSAT, should have good shots in all of your reach schools

no

LSP:
Washington -- Deny
University of California Davis -- 39%
University of Colorado - Boulder -- Deny
University of Wisconsin -- 51%
Arizona State University -- 45%
University of Arizona -- 39%
American University --50%

i feel lsp is a little too pessimistic, washington is hard to get in, but 39% at davis isn't bad at all, wiscousin/arizona/asu/american are all high percentages, I figure reach schools should be like, for example, my application to davis (chance at 12%)
when i applied to schools, i didn't find out abt LSP, so, I didn't know abt my chances, but with my 12% at davis, pending davis, dinged by washington, didn't apply to colorado or asu, WL at wisconsin, Arizona, in at American, I feel OP's stats could do better me

[Cartman]

you are being too humble, that's a good GPA and LSAT, should have good shots in all of your reach schools

no

LSP:
Washington -- Deny
University of California Davis -- 39%
University of Colorado - Boulder -- Deny
University of Wisconsin -- 51%
Arizona State University -- 45%
University of Arizona -- 39%
American University --50%

i feel lsp is a little too pessimistic, washington is hard to get in, but 39% at davis isn't bad at all, wiscousin/arizona/asu/american are all high percentages, I figure reach schools should be like, for example, my application to davis (chance at 12%)
when i applied to schools, i didn't find out abt LSP, so, I didn't know abt my chances, but with my 12% at davis, pending davis, dinged by washington, didn't apply to colorado or asu, WL at wisconsin, Arizona, in at American, I feel OP's stats could do better me

I sometimes wonder if LSP is a little too pessimistic as well, but it's a straight numbers calculator so it's more or less what I expected. I know it's a situation that's happened to so many of other TLS'ers as well, but it's frustrating to have fuck-ups at 18 in community college stick with you for the rest of your academic career. 1 year = couple F's and C's, the next year 1 C. Next 2 years (since my transfer) nothing below a B. With a 162 and a 3.8 I don't think I'd need to be here worrying about the same reach schools.

This is more or less what I'm hoping admissions counselors can look favorably on, but I know when it comes down to it a lot of it is reportable statistics. I know it doesn't make a *huge* difference, but I'm planning on applying day 1 of admissions cycle. Might as well get everything in early if I'm on a fence.

[handlesthetruth]

you are being too humble, that's a good GPA and LSAT, should have good shots in all of your reach schools

no

LSP:
Washington -- Deny
University of California Davis -- 39%
University of Colorado - Boulder -- Deny
University of Wisconsin -- 51%
Arizona State University -- 45%
University of Arizona -- 39%
American University --50%

i feel lsp is a little too pessimistic, washington is hard to get in, but 39% at davis isn't bad at all, wiscousin/arizona/asu/american are all high percentages, I figure reach schools should be like, for example, my application to davis (chance at 12%)
when i applied to schools, i didn't find out abt LSP, so, I didn't know abt my chances, but with my 12% at davis, pending davis, dinged by washington, didn't apply to colorado or asu, WL at wisconsin, Arizona, in at American, I feel OP's stats could do better me

I sometimes wonder if LSP is a little too pessimistic as well, but it's a straight numbers calculator so it's more or less what I expected. I know it's a situation that's happened to so many of other TLS'ers as well, but it's frustrating to have fuck-ups at 18 in community college stick with you for the rest of your academic career. 1 year = couple F's and C's, the next year 1 C. Next 2 years (since my transfer) nothing below a B. With a 162 and a 3.8 I don't think I'd need to be here worrying about the same reach schools.

This is more or less what I'm hoping admissions counselors can look favorably on, but I know when it comes down to it a lot of it is reportable statistics. I know it doesn't make a *huge* difference, but I'm planning on applying day 1 of admissions cycle. Might as well get everything in early if I'm on a fence.

Yeah, that's the best you can do. I mean, apply day one and hope for the best. It does suck about the community college thing; I feel for ya. Maybe you can get a riveting personal statement out of your nice turnaround though.

[Verity]

Hello fellow TLSers,

I'm going to be applying this coming fall and have been compiling a list of the schools I'm interested in attending, and am making a rather large list (why not see who will take me?). I would also be interested in knowing how many schools are likely to offer me any scholly $$, and how much. More than likely if I get accepted to the reach schools, I'd end up paying sticker (or close to it.)

So here's the preliminary list:

Reach schools:
University of Washington
University of California Irvine
University of California Davis
University of Colorado - Boulder
University of Wisconsin

Borderline Reach/Target: These I feel aren't "as reach" but are close.
Arizona State University
University of Arizona
American University

Target schools:
Lewis & Clark University
University of Connecticut
Northeastern

Safety schools:
Seattle University
Santa Clara University

If anyone see's something they think sounds about the area that I may have left out, let me know! I have two strong LoR's lined up, one from the chair of the Philosophy dept. at the university I'm at, and the other from another professor. My softs are decent: some community service to speak of, working part-time throughout college.

The real big one here (and although I heard in another post and believe it to be true that everyone on TLS has an upward GPA trend) is a massive upward trend (to the tune of about a 3.85 in the last 2 years of school. My poor overall GPA was due to a couple F's I received during the first year at a local community college as I figured out what the hell I wanted to do with my life. Once I decided, I set my mind to it. The second year at the community college and the next 2 years at the university I transferred to were excellent. The 3.85 GPA is the GPA since transferring to the university from the community college (last 2 years.)

I'm very skeptical about how much statistics like that actually count though, as we all know that upward trends aren't reported to USNews

So, go forth and be gentle fellow TSL'ers. Or give it to me straight, I'm a big man and can handle it.

Edit: As for the Reach schools, I feel as though the best shot I'd have from those is maybe University of Wisconsin, and perhaps (if I'm lucky) a waitlist from Boulder.

This is ridiculous. Do you have any idea what you're doing? Your reach schools are in the West, Pacific Northwest, and Midwest. Your target schools are in the PacNorth and New England.

Where do you want to practice? REPEAT: Where do you want to practice?

The answer here is probably to retake. How long did you study for the LSAT? How many times have you taken it? How did you study?

[Cartman]

I'd prefer to practice either in the Pacific Northwest or further south along the west coast. I'd probably be okay with Arizona, too. I'm a pretty west-coast boy through and through.

I've taken the LSAT once, last October (October of 2010). I took it a year before I'd graduate, simply because I wanted to see how I did etc. I took a Testmasters prep course last summer, diagnostic cold was at 154, and the highest score I practiced was a 166 (twice). 162 was on the low end of my score band, but it wasn't "out of it." If I was to retest, I'd probably need to raise the entire score band.

One of the reasons I toyed with a retake was 1) Because I felt as though I could have put a little more effort into it (some people I know made it a JOB 9-5). 2) Because I was frustrated that I tested numerous times above a 162. I know it's normal to score lower, however, under real testing conditions.

[kalvano]

Where are you a resident of?

Out at CU and UW.

[handlesthetruth]

my diagnostic was 153. got a 168. am going to retake because i was PTing 3 points higher than that.

Retake man. 154 makes you very capable of 170+

[Cartman]

Where are you a resident of?

Out at CU and UW.

Resident of California.

CU meaning Colorado?

As for the retake suggestions, U of W averages the scores, and I don't know about U of Colo Boulder...I looked back at LG recently and realized I've forgotten so much since October, it's almost a little intimidating.

[kalvano]

Where are you a resident of?

Out at CU and UW.

Resident of California.

CU meaning Colorado?

As for the retake suggestions, U of W averages the scores, and I don't know about U of Colo Boulder...I looked back at LG recently and realized I've forgotten so much since October, it's almost a little intimidating.

I had about the same GPA and higher LSAT, and was dinged at UW and CU.

[ClutchCity24]

I had a similar gpa and a 165 lsat. WL at Wisconsin so the 51% is probably too high.

Put more time into the lsat and retake. You will be happy you did.

[Verity]

If you want to practice in the Pacific Northwest, don't even think about UConn or Northeastern. Seriously. Any school outside of the T14 is regional, for all intents and purposes (even most of the T14 isn't immune to a regional pigeonhole). The obvious answer is to take a year, study, and retake. I went from a cold 151 to a 176. BUT, I studied intensely for almost a year. It's possible, and it's worth it: I'll be at CCN this fall. Raise it and check out UC-Davis and UWashington. Get a 170+, and USC might be in reach. Hit 175+, and T14 is definitely possible.

[handlesthetruth]

Hit 175+, and T14 is definitely possible.

hit 170 and UVA is possible with ED

[Cartman]

So, further question to all who have posted, since it seems many people have been suggesting a retake:

If I really don't feel the need to go to a "T-14" school (or even top 30 for that matter) what's the advantage to retaking? It seems most of those schools are geared towards churning out BigLaw candidates, which I want no part of.

Look, all of us have taken (or will take) the LSAT...and I think I'm not going to be alone in saying it's a process that I wouldn't wish upon anyone, because it's f**ckin grueling (for those who've seriously invested lots of time in it.) I know going on TSL and finding a thread without "retake" in it would entail going to a local farm and checking to see if the swine have grown wings yet, but I just don't know if it's for everyone. As for the last post, I really, really don't want to go to UVA so I really, really don't care if a 170 would get me in with an ED.

Will my #'s get me any money at my target schools? I'm seriously looking into L&C here, if anyone has any relevant information to that specifically. I'm looking hard at Environmental Law, and it's annually 1st or 2nd in the country (plus being in the Pacific Northwest, a place I'd like to practice.)

Again, thanks for the continuing input.

[Verity]

So, further question to all who have posted, since it seems many people have been suggesting a retake:

If I really don't feel the need to go to a "T-14" school (or even top 30 for that matter) what's the advantage to retaking? It seems most of those schools are geared towards churning out BigLaw candidates, which I want no part of.

Huge scholarship money. If you get into a T14, you're looking at full-rides from T30s.

Look, all of us have taken (or will take) the LSAT...and I think I'm not going to be alone in saying it's a process that I wouldn't wish upon anyone, because it's f**ckin grueling (for those who've seriously invested lots of time in it.) I know going on TSL and finding a thread without "retake" in it would entail going to a local farm and checking to see if the swine have grown wings yet, but I just don't know if it's for everyone.

I don't know what you mean by "for everyone," but this is the best strategy for improving your admission odds, and increasing scholarships. One point increments yield huge results.

Will my #'s get me any money at my target schools?

Probably not. And 2/3 of your target schools are in New England, which is just stupid.

I'm seriously looking into L&C here, if anyone has any relevant information to that specifically. I'm looking hard at Environmental Law, and it's annually 1st or 2nd in the country (plus being in the Pacific Northwest, a place I'd like to practice.)

None of that secondary ranking shit means anything. A firm will likely take a, let's say, Northwestern grad every time over a L&C grad, even for environmental. Why? Because they think they're just better lawyers, period.



Again, retake.

[dr123]

I had a similar gpa and a 165 lsat. WL at Wisconsin so the 51% is probably too high.

Put more time into the lsat and retake. You will be happy you did.

Umm, what? you got WLed how does that mean a 50/50 shot is too high?

[Tim0thy222]

So, further question to all who have posted, since it seems many people have been suggesting a retake:

If I really don't feel the need to go to a "T-14" school (or even top 30 for that matter) what's the advantage to retaking? It seems most of those schools are geared towards churning out BigLaw candidates, which I want no part of.

Look, all of us have taken (or will take) the LSAT...and I think I'm not going to be alone in saying it's a process that I wouldn't wish upon anyone, because it's f**ckin grueling (for those who've seriously invested lots of time in it.) I know going on TSL and finding a thread without "retake" in it would entail going to a local farm and checking to see if the swine have grown wings yet, but I just don't know if it's for everyone. As for the last post, I really, really don't want to go to UVA so I really, really don't care if a 170 would get me in with an ED.

Will my #'s get me any money at my target schools? I'm seriously looking into L&C here, if anyone has any relevant information to that specifically. I'm looking hard at Environmental Law, and it's annually 1st or 2nd in the country (plus being in the Pacific Northwest, a place I'd like to practice.)

Again, thanks for the continuing input.

looking at the employment stats, it seems to me that t30 isn't so much about churning out biglaw as it is churning out people with jobs (at least relative to other schools). some people want biglaw, so they go to t30 schools (or t14 or t6 or HYS or whatever), but I think that regardless of what field your interested in better schools will show better prospects, though of course employment does not go straight up the rankings. certainly region will have something to do with it, as other posters have suggested. don't take my word for it though, look at the data, and research a little more.

in terms of environmental law, when I visited L&C I got the impression that there's a lot of environmental organizations up there, but also a ton of environmental law students graduating from that school. also, you don't really know if you want environmental law, since you're a 0L. maybe some 0L's do know exactly what they want, and that's fine, but not you. I met a former environmental law student at L&C who switched to tax law because he found out he loved tax law while he was there. so you should go to a better school instead of a lesser school with a specialty ranking.

Also, on LSP I was a "weak consider" at the school I'm attending in the fall, and I was an "admit" at a lot of schools I was waitlisted at, so I wouldn't trust that site. I found LSN to be a much better predictor of my results.

conclusion: retake

since I just offered you the golden advice that will save your legal career, you want to skip class and buy me lunch thursday? we're just watching the second half of that movie, and the professor won't even be there...

[Cartman]

So, further question to all who have posted, since it seems many people have been suggesting a retake:

If I really don't feel the need to go to a "T-14" school (or even top 30 for that matter) what's the advantage to retaking? It seems most of those schools are geared towards churning out BigLaw candidates, which I want no part of.

Look, all of us have taken (or will take) the LSAT...and I think I'm not going to be alone in saying it's a process that I wouldn't wish upon anyone, because it's f**ckin grueling (for those who've seriously invested lots of time in it.) I know going on TSL and finding a thread without "retake" in it would entail going to a local farm and checking to see if the swine have grown wings yet, but I just don't know if it's for everyone. As for the last post, I really, really don't want to go to UVA so I really, really don't care if a 170 would get me in with an ED.

Will my #'s get me any money at my target schools? I'm seriously looking into L&C here, if anyone has any relevant information to that specifically. I'm looking hard at Environmental Law, and it's annually 1st or 2nd in the country (plus being in the Pacific Northwest, a place I'd like to practice.)

Again, thanks for the continuing input.

looking at the employment stats, it seems to me that t30 isn't so much about churning out biglaw as it is churning out people with jobs (at least relative to other schools). some people want biglaw, so they go to t30 schools (or t14 or t6 or HYS or whatever), but I think that regardless of what field your interested in better schools will show better prospects, though of course employment does not go straight up the rankings. certainly region will have something to do with it, as other posters have suggested. don't take my word for it though, look at the data, and research a little more.

in terms of environmental law, when I visited L&C I got the impression that there's a lot of environmental organizations up there, but also a ton of environmental law students graduating from that school. also, you don't really know if you want environmental law, since you're a 0L. maybe some 0L's do know exactly what they want, and that's fine, but not you. I met a former environmental law student at L&C who switched to tax law because he found out he loved tax law while he was there. so you should go to a better school instead of a lesser school with a specialty ranking.

Also, on LSP I was a "weak consider" at the school I'm attending in the fall, and I was an "admit" at a lot of schools I was waitlisted at, so I wouldn't trust that site. I found LSN to be a much better predictor of my results.

conclusion: retake

since I just offered you the golden advice that will save your legal career, you want to skip class and buy me lunch thursday? we're just watching the second half of that movie, and the professor won't even be there...

Tim, you fucker I love you. Lunch sounds wonderful.

In other news, in responding to you if I retake I need help on games.

To everyone else, the scholarship $$ does seem like an important factor in deciding whether or not to retake. One last question, because I need to know that I won't completely destroy whatever pitiful chances I currently have at whatever pitiful law school I'd end up going to with my current scores:

If I retake and (Allah forbid) I get a WORSE score...say, a 161, how badly will that damage my current shots? I'm not expecting this by any stretch, and plan to study retardedly so the chances are -1, but would it kill any shots now? Or would they still take the higher score with a bigger frowny face?

[ClutchCity24]

I had a similar gpa and a 165 lsat. WL at Wisconsin so the 51% is probably too high.

Put more time into the lsat and retake. You will be happy you did.

Umm, what? you got WLed how does that mean a 50/50 shot is too high?

I was referring to OP with a 162 lsat. 51% is likely too high from lsp.

[Cartman]

I had a similar gpa and a 165 lsat. WL at Wisconsin so the 51% is probably too high.

Put more time into the lsat and retake. You will be happy you did.

Umm, what? you got WLed how does that mean a 50/50 shot is too high?

I was referring to OP with a 162 lsat. 51% is likely too high from lsp.

I think that what dr123 meant was that he felt a waitlist falls under the category of the *50% admit* and not the *50%* deny...or 50% of people getting in with similar numbers or whatever exactly it means.

Going back to my last question a couple posts back though, exactly how bad is it if you retake and score the same or even a point or two worse? I'm not expecting this to happen, but I want to know that if hell freezes over and it happens I won't blow my current chances by risking a retake. Will schools still grudgingly take the higher, even if it's the first?

[KimboSlice]

I'm wondering the same thing...for schools that don't average scores, will they frown upon a lower score on the second try? And for schools that do average scores, how often do people get rejected because of a lower second score? any ideas?

[Cartman]

I'm wondering the same thing...for schools that don't average scores, will they frown upon a lower score on the second try? And for schools that do average scores, how often do people get rejected because of a lower second score? any ideas?

I would absolutely like to know this for anyone who can provide an answer!