H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

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bdubs
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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby bdubs » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:53 pm

bawsetinboy wrote:
bdubs wrote:Why did you get a 2.5? Are you in an engineering program that curved to a 3.0, did you get a straight semester of F's on top of what otherwise would have been a 3.5-3.7, or did you just f*ck around all four years?

I think with your unique combination of very high LSAT, extremely low grades, and prestigious UG you will get some attention. If you had a reasonable excuse, I could see schools making you the exception but only if you have WE (I think you are on the right track with military service though).


A combination of b.) and c.). My first year was abysmal, went on a huge upward trend for the next two years, then dropped precipitously in the last year. It was a combination of many things, but included poor study habits, f*cking around and general lack of regard for academics (first year), and pretty severe depression (last year).

definitely planning on submitting a solid addendum.


That's probably tougher to explain. Unless you had a few semesters of at or above median grades at a T14 I don't see how they will be sold on your academic aptitude. Top schools don't like seeing graduates fail out and you would look like a major risk.

I will go with the crowd and say that NU ED is your only realistic shot at T14.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:55 pm

bawsetinboy wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:The Midwest is your best bet. ED NU, RD: WUSTL, IUB, Illinois and Minnesota. You should also throw up hail mary GULC, Cornell and UVA apps


I was under the impression that hail mary GULC/UVA apps needed to be ED's to make them the most competitive?

I would really, really prefer to attend school in the DC/NY area. So if I had only one shot with an ED, I would definitely prefer GULC to NU, although not if my chance at admission to NU were significantly higher than at GULC. That does seem to be the case according to consensus, as almost everyone who has posted so far has recommended NU ED as the best shot at a T-14.

NU seems to dip the lowest in GPA out of all the t-14 for those people with good work experience and 175+ LSATs. You will still have a tough time, but there is at least one poster on here, at NU, who had like a 2.6-2.7 and got in ED with a 176 LSAT and good WE. UVA and GULC don't seem to want to dip that low, even for ED applicants with extremely high GPA's.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby bartleby » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:02 pm

I thought they didn't give worse than C+'s at Harvard? I'm not trying to say that to be a dick but was reading something about either Gore/Bush and it said F's were basically C+'s

bdubs
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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby bdubs » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:05 pm

bartleby wrote:I thought they didn't give worse than C+'s at Harvard? I'm not trying to say that to be a dick but was reading something about either Gore/Bush and it said F's were basically C+'s


You have to be able to fail classes at Harvard.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby bawsetinboy » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:10 pm

bdubs wrote:
That's probably tougher to explain. Unless you had a few semesters of at or above median grades at a T14 I don't see how they will be sold on your academic aptitude. Top schools don't like seeing graduates fail out and you would look like a major risk.


I know that graduate school credits don't get counted towards the LSAC calculation, but is there anything I could do between now and applying to prove that I a.) have the requisite academic aptitude to succeed and b.) have matured enough since undergrad to mitigate that risk significantly?

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby Law Sauce » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:16 pm

bawsetinboy wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:The Midwest is your best bet. ED NU, RD: WUSTL, IUB, Illinois and Minnesota. You should also throw up hail mary GULC, Cornell and UVA apps


I was under the impression that hail mary GULC/UVA apps needed to be ED's to make them the most competitive?

I would really, really prefer to attend school in the DC/NY area. So if I had only one shot with an ED, I would definitely prefer GULC to NU, although not if my chance at admission to NU were significantly higher than at GULC. That does seem to be the case according to consensus, as almost everyone who has posted so far has recommended NU ED as the best shot at a T-14.


If GULC was going to take you, it'd be through ED, and... you probably have a better chance then anyone else in the 2.s has ever had. Not that that is a great chance. But you have a chance. Dont short change yourself. You never know. If your ED fails, you may be able to ED elsewhere afterwords.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby bawsetinboy » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:29 pm

Law Sauce wrote: If GULC was going to take you, it'd be through ED, and... you probably have a better chance then anyone else in the 2.s has ever had. Not that that is a great chance. But you have a chance. Dont short change yourself. You never know. If your ED fails, you may be able to ED elsewhere afterwords.


I see. Thanks for the encouragement. Did not know you could ED more than once.

So it seems like we've established a good number of options for "hail mary/reach" schools (NU/UVA/GULC ED) and "target" schools (WUSTL, UIB, UC Hastings LEOP, Illinois, UCI (?)).

What about schools I didn't mention in T1 (top 50) - besides BU/BC/Am/GW? are there any other schools that I would also have a shot at? What range/types of schools should I be looking at applying in the "safety" zone?

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby Verity » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:38 pm

bawsetinboy wrote:
Law Sauce wrote: If GULC was going to take you, it'd be through ED, and... you probably have a better chance then anyone else in the 2.s has ever had. Not that that is a great chance. But you have a chance. Dont short change yourself. You never know. If your ED fails, you may be able to ED elsewhere afterwords.


I see. Thanks for the encouragement. Did not know you could ED more than once.

So it seems like we've established a good number of options for "hail mary/reach" schools (NU/UVA/GULC ED) and "target" schools (WUSTL, UIB, UC Hastings LEOP, Illinois, UCI (?)).

What about schools I didn't mention in T1 (top 50) - besides BU/BC/Am/GW? are there any other schools that I would also have a shot at? What range/types of schools should I be looking at applying in the "safety" zone?



Where do you want to practice? What type of job do you want? These are two crucial questions, because outside of the T14, you need to understand that every school is regional.
Last edited by Verity on Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:41 pm

2.5 gpa effectively rules you out at every t14 except NU with WE. Maybe Gtown will bite but I doubt it.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby bawsetinboy » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:50 pm

Verity wrote:
Where do you want to practice? What type of job do you want?


Ah, I see - so back to the comment about T2's being contingent on location/job choice/amt of scholarship.

I want to practice in NY or DC, with CA being third choice. Most likely looking for a biglaw job out of school, and probably transition to government eventually, but we'll see.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby plurilingue » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:10 pm

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Last edited by plurilingue on Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:11 pm

bawsetinboy wrote:I want to practice in NY or DC, with CA being third choice. Most likely looking for a biglaw job out of school, and probably transition to government eventually, but we'll see.


Then you should really be aiming for NU ED because outside of the top 12-18 schools or so (not WUSTL), your chances of getting biglaw aren't great (think 20-30% at best). Since the top regional schools you can get as a supersplitter don't tend to place in those areas, schools like WUSTL/Illinois/IUB/etc that tend to place in the midwest, I would really take 1-2 years off to get some full time work experience and ED to NU because they will likely take you with those numbers (and having 1-2+ years of work exp is almost a requirement at NU).

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby bdubs » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:23 pm

bk1 wrote:
bawsetinboy wrote:I want to practice in NY or DC, with CA being third choice. Most likely looking for a biglaw job out of school, and probably transition to government eventually, but we'll see.


Then you should really be aiming for NU ED because outside of the top 12-18 schools or so (not WUSTL), your chances of getting biglaw aren't great (think 20-30% at best). Since the top regional schools you can get as a supersplitter don't tend to place in those areas, schools like WUSTL/Illinois/IUB/etc that tend to place in the midwest, I would really take 1-2 years off to get some full time work experience and ED to NU because they will likely take you with those numbers (and having 1-2+ years of work exp is almost a requirement at NU).


Also, being in NY or DC (especially) will not guarantee you one of those jobs either. You need to be near (sometimes very near) the top of your class at AU, CUA, Cardozo, etc.. to get a shot at the jobs you want.

NU is your best shot (~60%) for big law.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:24 pm

bdubs wrote:
bk1 wrote:
bawsetinboy wrote:I want to practice in NY or DC, with CA being third choice. Most likely looking for a biglaw job out of school, and probably transition to government eventually, but we'll see.


Then you should really be aiming for NU ED because outside of the top 12-18 schools or so (not WUSTL), your chances of getting biglaw aren't great (think 20-30% at best). Since the top regional schools you can get as a supersplitter don't tend to place in those areas, schools like WUSTL/Illinois/IUB/etc that tend to place in the midwest, I would really take 1-2 years off to get some full time work experience and ED to NU because they will likely take you with those numbers (and having 1-2+ years of work exp is almost a requirement at NU).


Also, being in NY or DC (especially) will not guarantee you one of those jobs either. You need to be near (sometimes very near) the top of your class at AU, CUA, Cardozo, etc.. to get a shot at the jobs you want.

NU is your best shot (~60%) for big law.


Someone is thinking pre ITE.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby bdubs » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:28 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
bdubs wrote:
bk1 wrote:
bawsetinboy wrote:I want to practice in NY or DC, with CA being third choice. Most likely looking for a biglaw job out of school, and probably transition to government eventually, but we'll see.


Then you should really be aiming for NU ED because outside of the top 12-18 schools or so (not WUSTL), your chances of getting biglaw aren't great (think 20-30% at best). Since the top regional schools you can get as a supersplitter don't tend to place in those areas, schools like WUSTL/Illinois/IUB/etc that tend to place in the midwest, I would really take 1-2 years off to get some full time work experience and ED to NU because they will likely take you with those numbers (and having 1-2+ years of work exp is almost a requirement at NU).


Also, being in NY or DC (especially) will not guarantee you one of those jobs either. You need to be near (sometimes very near) the top of your class at AU, CUA, Cardozo, etc.. to get a shot at the jobs you want.

NU is your best shot (~60%) for big law.

Someone is thinking pre ITE.


Might have been a snow job, but this is what NU's career services director said at the ASW. He was pretty frank about it being tough and said it was up from around 50% in the year before (remember NLJ250 trails SA hiring).

He also noted that since 10% or more of the class is JD/MBA, the numbers can seem a bit skewed

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby Bumi » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:02 pm

I have similar stats and just finished my cycle. PM me if you want details.

The short answer is: whatever you do, apply to IUB and WUSTL. Northwestern may let you in, but the rest of the T14 probably won't. Maybe GULC, but don't think that PT will be easier than non-PT.

Also, prepare to be showered in waitlists.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby Verity » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:11 pm

bawsetinboy wrote:
Verity wrote:
Where do you want to practice? What type of job do you want?


Ah, I see - so back to the comment about T2's being contingent on location/job choice/amt of scholarship.

I want to practice in NY or DC, with CA being third choice. Most likely looking for a biglaw job out of school, and probably transition to government eventually, but we'll see.


Not just T2s - basically any school outside of the T14 (and even lower-T14s, to a degree).

ED to NU is your best shot, but it's hard to say you'll get in. If you get WE or military service, I'd bet you get in. In any case, you should consider GW, BU, BC, Fordham, Cardozo, Rutgers, and American. The problem with these schools is that even if you get in (most likely waitlisted or outright rejected at Fordham and Cardozo), you won't get much money. Most of the schools that give lots of cash to splitters are in the Midwest, and of those NU is king. However, UIUC can get you NYC and DC if you're in the top quartile, and they'll probably give you a lot of money. But don't put all your chips on being top of the class.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby Bumi » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:23 pm

Verity wrote:UIUC can get you NYC and DC if you're in the top quartile, and they'll probably give you a lot of money.


Why do you think UIUC would give him a lot of money? I saw some $30K or $45K scholarships there for big splitters over the last few years on LSN, but I also saw a lot of waitlists. I realize that this depends on what you mean by "probably" and "a lot", but regardless, it's a strong statement to make.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby DreamsInDigital » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:02 am

Just wanted to relate my cycle since our stats are kind of similar (i'd guess me being a URM levels out our scores a tiny bit and our gpa's are pretty similar).

I agree with most of what has been said here.

- Some of the midwest schools are probably your best chance at getting some decent money. 120 from UIUC for me.

- The T14 are going to be difficult to crack. I was rejected at UVA, Stanford, Berkeley, Chicago.

- If you are dead set on going to the highest ranked school possible and don't mind paying sticker, apply ED to one of them. Otherwise I would just apply as early as humanly possible to all the T14 and tailor every app.

- And Bumi is right, expect a ton of wait lists. GULC, Northwestern, William and Mary, Davis, and eternal silence from Columbia. For me.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby Stringer Bell » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:15 am

Patriot1208 wrote:NU seems to dip the lowest in GPA out of all the t-14 for those people with good work experience and 175+ LSATs. You will still have a tough time, but there is at least one poster on here, at NU, who had like a 2.6-2.7 and got in ED with a 176 LSAT and good WE. UVA and GULC don't seem to want to dip that low, even for ED applicants with extremely high GPA's.


There was a poster who got into NU with a 2.1/171/ED/1 year of mediocre WE. I guess you can never completely say never since OP is a somewhat unique applicant, but NU ED is by far the best shot OP has.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby Lawquacious » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:24 am

I think H undergrad can give more of a boost in some instances than ppl indicate on here, but that is just speculation. I think if you hit 175 and blanketed T14 you would get some bites in lower T14. But a few of the other schools mentioned above may be good options (for money perhaps) if you can hit that high of an LSAT.

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tyro
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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby tyro » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:27 am

Verity wrote:But maybe if you're this guy...


This dewd had a 3.9 GPA?

Anyway, one question I have is if there are any D+'s or C-'s that you could possibly replace by retaking courses?

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby DreamsInDigital » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:49 am

tyro wrote:
Verity wrote:But maybe if you're this guy...


This dewd had a 3.9 GPA?

Anyway, one question I have is if there are any D+'s or C-'s that you could possibly replace by retaking courses?


This won't help. If he were still in school the extra grades might help raise his GPA a tiny bit but lsac will calculate both the F and the grade that replaced it in the gpa.

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tyro
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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby tyro » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:52 am

DreamsInDigital wrote:
tyro wrote:
Verity wrote:But maybe if you're this guy...


This dewd had a 3.9 GPA?

Anyway, one question I have is if there are any D+'s or C-'s that you could possibly replace by retaking courses?


This won't help. If he were still in school the extra grades might help raise his GPA a tiny bit but lsac will calculate both the F and the grade that replaced it in the gpa.


Yeh so kind of a double "no" on that one huh.

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Re: H ugrad w/ very poor GPA - chances at HYS/T14 & beyond?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:55 am

Stringer Bell wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:NU seems to dip the lowest in GPA out of all the t-14 for those people with good work experience and 175+ LSATs. You will still have a tough time, but there is at least one poster on here, at NU, who had like a 2.6-2.7 and got in ED with a 176 LSAT and good WE. UVA and GULC don't seem to want to dip that low, even for ED applicants with extremely high GPA's.


There was a poster who got into NU with a 2.1/171/ED/1 year of mediocre WE. I guess you can never completely say never since OP is a somewhat unique applicant, but NU ED is by far the best shot OP has.


There are enough Wildcats with sub 3.0 GPA's we are thinking of starting a club. But they aren't going to admit someone who is going to fuck up and be unemployable. You have to show you aren't a loser by getting a real job.

The dude with 2.1/171 had more than 1 year w/e.

So if the OP gets a real job, works 2 year and then hits NU with an ED app, I'd guess he'd have a 80% shot of getting in. Downside is we are getting a new Dean. S/he might put the kiabosh on the work experience stuff. But I think they won't.

In the mean time the OP can apply to Georgetown and ride the waitlist each year. They might take that LSAT if they need one.




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