3.11 /173

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flpackerfan
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3.11 /173

Postby flpackerfan » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:33 pm

LSDAS GPA: 3.11
LSAT: 173
Major: Political Science
Work Experience: 4 years active duty US Coast Guard

I'm curious what my chances are at some T-14 schools with my low GPA, and if military experience helps at all.

Specifically:

NYU
Chicago
Michigan
Northwestern

I plan on applying to Wisconsin and Florida, as safety schools.

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:41 pm

Can we assume you've visited:

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com

LSP claims you're a 'deny' at NYC and Chicago, and a 'consider' at Michigan and Northwestern. With your WE, I would guess you might actually be a 'strong consider' at Northwestern.

Meerkat Manor
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby Meerkat Manor » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:42 pm

youre probably good at NU, i'd guess michigan too. probably not the other 2 but you never know because i'd guess USCG is a better than average soft

FiveSermon
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby FiveSermon » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:43 pm

NYU/Chicago are out.

NU is probably in.

Michigan can go either way -- if you ED you should get in.

flpackerfan
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby flpackerfan » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:48 pm

AntipodeanPhil wrote:Can we assume you've visited:

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com

LSP claims you're a 'deny' at NYC and Chicago, and a 'consider' at Michigan and Northwestern. With your WE, I would guess you might actually be a 'strong consider' at Northwestern.


Yes, I am just curious if work experience in the military would help boost my chances. I know NU is more business oriented, but I'm hoping it helps at other T-14s as well.

My plan on the application is to play up how the military gave me real world experience/maturity. Maybe try and down play the low GPA as a result of lack of motivation ect.

If being in the USCG is just another soft at most places, I'm guessing that wouldn't make much of difference.

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:56 pm

The consensus on TLS seems to be that any kind of military service is a very good soft, but not a game changer.

Downplaying your GPA as a due to a lack of motivation makes me anxious. How can they know that you will work hard during law school? If you're worried that your GPA might otherwise be taken to suggest a lack of intelligence / general competence, I would imagine your LSAT score removes that concern.

flexityflex86
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby flexityflex86 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:01 pm

Don't say lack of motivation. If you had professional obligations, etc. that makes more sense. You can't get private loans in undergrad unless you have a cosigner so if your parents are deadbeats, you're kind of f'd. grad school is diff so schools will understand why your GPA may have suffered, and know that wouldn't be a factor why in law school bec. of plus loans + scholarships (law schools are more liberal with schollies than undergrad)

flpackerfan
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby flpackerfan » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:05 pm

I agree, what I was getting at was trying to show how I've matured since my undergraduate years. Hoping it will prevent them from denying me just because of a low GPA.

I don't have any decent explanation for the low GPA, but I do have ways I can show developed a stronger work ethic.

Bumi
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby Bumi » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:52 pm

AntipodeanPhil wrote:Can we assume you've visited:

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com

LSP claims you're a 'deny' at NYC and Chicago, and a 'consider' at Michigan and Northwestern. With your WE, I would guess you might actually be a 'strong consider' at Northwestern.


Is 173/3.11 not too splittery for LSP? After a certain level of splitterdom, LSP becomes less accurate.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:10 pm

Bumi wrote:
AntipodeanPhil wrote:Can we assume you've visited:

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com

LSP claims you're a 'deny' at NYC and Chicago, and a 'consider' at Michigan and Northwestern. With your WE, I would guess you might actually be a 'strong consider' at Northwestern.


Is 173/3.11 not too splittery for LSP? After a certain level of splitterdom, LSP becomes less accurate.

Most Likely. I was playing around there the other day and saw that a 173/3.5 was a consider at NU and weak consider at UChi. If that small of a difference is getting results that are probably innacurate, OPs 173/3.1 is definitely going to be skewed.

OP, focus on the splitter-friendly T14 schools like NU, UChi, UVA, and maybe Michigan. Also, Illinois and WUSTL should be your safeties. You will likely get in with big scholarships to either of those. FL and Wisc are way too far down for your LSAT. Just look at Lawschoolnumbers for the schools that have more LSAT-driven admit charts

flpackerfan
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby flpackerfan » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:30 pm

How does it become less accurate?

Overly pessimistic or overly optimistic?

flexityflex86
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby flexityflex86 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:38 pm

flpackerfan wrote:How does it become less accurate?

Overly pessimistic or overly optimistic?

Prob overly. For example, if you type in you have a 5 GPA, you get into Yale with a 160, because it's just a # balance, when in reality being slightly above both medians is always better than just being way above one. Applying to UCLA with a 180 does not help their medians so much more than someone applying with a 170.

Also, for safeties, do you want UF because you're sold on working there?

You should also keep in mind a lot of the time top 25 schools will give you bigger scholarships than tier 2s and 3s do as they tend to have more $, and care about their ranking more.

flpackerfan
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby flpackerfan » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:28 am

flexityflex86 wrote:
flpackerfan wrote:How does it become less accurate?

Overly pessimistic or overly optimistic?

Prob overly. For example, if you type in you have a 5 GPA, you get into Yale with a 160, because it's just a # balance, when in reality being slightly above both medians is always better than just being way above one. Applying to UCLA with a 180 does not help their medians so much more than someone applying with a 170.

Also, for safeties, do you want UF because you're sold on working there?

You should also keep in mind a lot of the time top 25 schools will give you bigger scholarships than tier 2s and 3s do as they tend to have more $, and care about their ranking more.


That's interesting. I figured if someone got a 180 on the LSAT that would greatly increase their chances, but are you saying a 180 is seen pretty much the same a 170+?

Yes I'd picked Florida and Wisconsin because I'd be fine with working in either of those states. I figured they'd be the best choice if I wanted to work exclusively in those areas. Thinking about it now I probably won't apply to Florida since they're barely in the top 50.

I'm really still narrowing down my list. I'm trying to get an idea where I have realistic shot in the Top 25.

Bumi
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby Bumi » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:34 am

flpackerfan wrote:How does it become less accurate?

Overly pessimistic or overly optimistic?


Overly optimistic, but just generally wrong. I'm a worse splitter than you (higher LSAT, lower GPA) and I got in to 1 of the 5 admits on LSP I applied to. I struck out at all the considers. Some schools have GPA floors, and with a sub-3.0 GPA, I was on the wrong side of those floors. You'll be on the right side, so you might be okay.

Also, I suspect that some midwestern schools know they can't outbid WUSTL and IUB for splitters, so they YP them. According to LSN, Minnesota looks like a frosty, cold land of YP waitlists.

Meanwhile, Northwestern let me in even though I was a weak consider, because they don't have a GPA floor and I had good WE. I'm told having a difficult major helped them view my GPA positively.

tl;dr For sub-3.0 splitters, LSP is worthless. I am not sure whether a 3.1 would find it worthless, somewhat worthless, or pretty accurate. YMMV.

Bumi
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby Bumi » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:41 am

flpackerfan wrote:I'm trying to get an idea where I have realistic shot in the Top 25.


The question is, where do you not have a realistic shot in the top 25? God, I wish I had had a 3.1.

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SMA22
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby SMA22 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:49 am

Bumi wrote:
flpackerfan wrote:How does it become less accurate?

Overly pessimistic or overly optimistic?


Overly optimistic, but just generally wrong. I'm a worse splitter than you (higher LSAT, lower GPA) and I got in to 1 of the 5 admits on LSP I applied to. I struck out at all the considers. Some schools have GPA floors, and with a sub-3.0 GPA, I was on the wrong side of those floors. You'll be on the right side, so you might be okay.

Also, I suspect that some midwestern schools know they can't outbid WUSTL and IUB for splitters, so they YP them. According to LSN, Minnesota looks like a frosty, cold land of YP waitlists.

Meanwhile, Northwestern let me in even though I was a weak consider, because they don't have a GPA floor and I had good WE. I'm told having a difficult major helped them view my GPA positively.

tl;dr For sub-3.0 splitters, LSP is worthless. I am not sure whether a 3.1 would find it worthless, somewhat worthless, or pretty accurate. YMMV.



+1

Similar numbers to OP; I got in at NU but waitlisted at Cornell, GULC, and Michigan. Denied from every other T20 I applied, but got a full ride to UIUC. It's kind of a crapshoot.

flexityflex86
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby flexityflex86 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:59 am

flpackerfan wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:
flpackerfan wrote:How does it become less accurate?

Overly pessimistic or overly optimistic?

Prob overly. For example, if you type in you have a 5 GPA, you get into Yale with a 160, because it's just a # balance, when in reality being slightly above both medians is always better than just being way above one. Applying to UCLA with a 180 does not help their medians so much more than someone applying with a 170.

Also, for safeties, do you want UF because you're sold on working there?

You should also keep in mind a lot of the time top 25 schools will give you bigger scholarships than tier 2s and 3s do as they tend to have more $, and care about their ranking more.


That's interesting. I figured if someone got a 180 on the LSAT that would greatly increase their chances, but are you saying a 180 is seen pretty much the same a 170+?

Yes I'd picked Florida and Wisconsin because I'd be fine with working in either of those states. I figured they'd be the best choice if I wanted to work exclusively in those areas. Thinking about it now I probably won't apply to Florida since they're barely in the top 50.

I'm really still narrowing down my list. I'm trying to get an idea where I have realistic shot in the Top 25.

LOL with a 173 and above a 3, you will def wind up at a top 20 with $.

A 180 is much better than a 170 for admissions, but a 170 and a 4.0 is going to place much better than a 180 and 3.0 as once we leave the top 4, you hit every median.

Bumi
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby Bumi » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:11 am

flexityflex86 wrote:LOL with a 173 and above a 3, you will def wind up at a top 20 with $.


The only sure thing is WUSTL. But I'd love to know how the coast guard experience plays in applications.

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TT09
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Re: 3.11 /173

Postby TT09 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:47 pm

ED to NU and you're in. Do it.




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