3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

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bigben
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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby bigben » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:53 pm

splitmuch wrote:You guys do realize that the group of people who take the LSAT is a smaller, more intelligent, and more educated (on average) subset of the people who take the SAT, right?

It makes perfect sense for something who got in the 99th percentile on the SAT to get in the 95/96th and 93rd percentiles on the LSAT. Its not that its "different" (the reading comp sections essentially test the exact same skills) as much as it is higher competition.

I mean a 1490 is 99th percentile on the SAT. While objectively good, its not the same as a 1590, and it makes sense that that the former would correlate to mid 160s LSATs.

This is wrong. While the group of people who take the LSAT is probably more intelligent on average, that doesn't explain the difference between SAT and LSAT scores. One guy earlier in the thread had a 1250 and a 176. My scores were similar to that guy. Many people have high SATs and low LSATs. The reality is that the SAT simply doesn't correlate much with the LSAT. They just test different things. I would say that the SAT is closer to testing how well you have learned your math and vocabulary while the LSAT tests innate analytic ability.

splitmuch
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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby splitmuch » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:58 pm

bigben wrote:
splitmuch wrote:You guys do realize that the group of people who take the LSAT is a smaller, more intelligent, and more educated (on average) subset of the people who take the SAT, right?

It makes perfect sense for something who got in the 99th percentile on the SAT to get in the 95/96th and 93rd percentiles on the LSAT. Its not that its "different" (the reading comp sections essentially test the exact same skills) as much as it is higher competition.

I mean a 1490 is 99th percentile on the SAT. While objectively good, its not the same as a 1590, and it makes sense that that the former would correlate to mid 160s LSATs.

This is wrong. While the group of people who take the LSAT is probably more intelligent on average, that doesn't explain the difference between SAT and LSAT scores. One guy earlier in the thread had a 1250 and a 176. My scores were similar to that guy. Many people have high SATs and low LSATs. The reality is that the SAT simply doesn't correlate much with the LSAT. They just test different things. I would say that the SAT is closer to testing how well you have learned math and vocabulary while the LSAT tests innate analytic ability.


Whoopdee doo anectdotal evidence. Yeah some people have bad SAT and awesome LSAT and vice versa. No shit, there are always outliers. I would bet a lot of money that in a large N study, the scores are pretty damn correlated and that a very large portion of difference between 95th and 99th percentile could be attributed entirely to the difference in abilities of the relative populations. You don't think math word problems and the reading comprehension section test innate analytic ability? A

bigben
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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby bigben » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:35 pm

splitmuch wrote:
bigben wrote:
splitmuch wrote:You guys do realize that the group of people who take the LSAT is a smaller, more intelligent, and more educated (on average) subset of the people who take the SAT, right?

It makes perfect sense for something who got in the 99th percentile on the SAT to get in the 95/96th and 93rd percentiles on the LSAT. Its not that its "different" (the reading comp sections essentially test the exact same skills) as much as it is higher competition.

I mean a 1490 is 99th percentile on the SAT. While objectively good, its not the same as a 1590, and it makes sense that that the former would correlate to mid 160s LSATs.

This is wrong. While the group of people who take the LSAT is probably more intelligent on average, that doesn't explain the difference between SAT and LSAT scores. One guy earlier in the thread had a 1250 and a 176. My scores were similar to that guy. Many people have high SATs and low LSATs. The reality is that the SAT simply doesn't correlate much with the LSAT. They just test different things. I would say that the SAT is closer to testing how well you have learned math and vocabulary while the LSAT tests innate analytic ability.


Whoopdee doo anectdotal evidence. Yeah some people have bad SAT and awesome LSAT and vice versa. No shit, there are always outliers. I would bet a lot of money that in a large N study, the scores are pretty damn correlated and that a very large portion of difference between 95th and 99th percentile could be attributed entirely to the difference in abilities of the relative populations. You don't think math word problems and the reading comprehension section test innate analytic ability? A

Let me clarify. I should have said that without conclusive evidence, I think it's most likely that there is not a very high correlation. One reason is that lots of people don't put in much preparation effort on the SAT and simply don't know the vocab or remember how to solve the math problems. The LSAT requires much less background knowledge and people generally prepare better anyway, making it a more level playing field. In any case, I think it's easy to argue that the two tests are just quite different and shouldn't be expected to correlate very highly.

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Emeth!
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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby Emeth! » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:45 pm

i've got a 3.9+ from a junky university and i'm getting some sweet mula from a few T14s. (but, I also have a 170+)

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby niederbomb » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:08 am

splitmuch wrote:
ballpop wrote:
SLS_AMG wrote:
RandallPink wrote:I will be graduating from a tier 3 university next summer with a 3.9+ gpa. I have three years legal experience as a labor paralegal in Pittsburgh. Also, in my past I have gained Unescorted Nuclear Access to six nuclear generating stations.

I will be taking my lsat in June 2011. I have always scored extremely well on standardized tests and feel confident that I can score between a 168-173. Preparation will be my main priority from now until June.

Given that my university (Point Park University, downtown Pittsburgh) has no prestige, would it be possible for me to pull a T14 school with these numbers/background? I have no intentions of pursuing law if I do not gain acceptance to these schools. I have seen far too many people graduate from Pitt and Duquesne University who are absolutely struggling to maintain a healthy life, let alone a prosperous one.

Thank you for your opinions.


The LSAT isn't like the SAT, ACT or PSAT. It's much more intense, and your attempts are limited. I always did well on standardized tests, too - I scored in the top 1% on both the SAT and ACT. Naturally, I assumed the same would be true on the LSAT. Unfortunately, I was very much mistaken. I had to work my butt off to finally get a 168 - top 4% (which comes as a shock to someone who'd always been in the top 1%).

What I'm trying to say is, don't take for granted that you're going to score in the high 160s or even 170s based on your previous standardized test experience. Everyone taking the LSAT has graduated from college or is going to in the near future - meaning you aren't competing against the general population, but rather a highly educated minority in this country. It's very easy to assume (based on all the very high scorers on this forum) that getting in the 170s is a mere formality after a little bit of studying. It isn't. The high scorers on this forum represent a very, very small percentage of the test-taking population.

With that said, only you know what you're capable of. Just don't take the LSAT for granted. Good luck!


+1...I scored in the top 5% for the SATs...in FIFTH GRADE, and then in the top 1% twice in a row in high school in both sections, and then similarly in 8 AP and SAT II tests and a subject and general GRE

And I ended up with a 164/166 after hundreds of hours of studying



You guys do realize that the group of people who take the LSAT is a smaller, more intelligent, and more educated (on average) subset of the people who take the SAT, right?

It makes perfect sense for something who got in the 99th percentile on the SAT to get in the 95/96th and 93rd percentiles on the LSAT. Its not that its "different" (the reading comp sections essentially test the exact same skills) as much as it is higher competition.

I mean a 1490 is 99th percentile on the SAT. While objectively good, its not the same as a 1590, and it makes sense that that the former would correlate to mid 160s LSATs.


Dunno - mine correlated almost perfectly. I took both the SAT and the LSAT twice, and the percentages matched up rather well each time. I also studied about equally for both. To each his own, I guess.

I think mid 1200's = low 160's, and 1500=170. Of course, the scale is different now, and it's easy to get an inflated writing score by gaming the system. So no idea how it would work now.

I don't know that the subset of people who take the LSAT is that much smarter. Almost everyone (genius and idiot) takes the SAT, but people who take the LSAT are (in my experience) frequently people who, for whatever reason, don't have a viable career lined up out of UG; this could be due to lack of focus or lack of ability. A higher percentage of LSAT takers than the general college population also seems to suck at math. So I'm sure it cuts both ways. At any rate, I don't think we can make any definitive claims one way or the other.

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:16 pm

RandallPink wrote:I will be graduating from a tier 3 university next summer with a 3.9+ gpa. I have three years legal experience as a labor paralegal in Pittsburgh. Also, in my past I have gained Unescorted Nuclear Access to six nuclear generating stations.

I will be taking my lsat in June 2011. I have always scored extremely well on standardized tests and feel confident that I can score between a 168-173. Preparation will be my main priority from now until June.

Given that my university (Point Park University, downtown Pittsburgh) has no prestige, would it be possible for me to pull a T14 school with these numbers/background? I have no intentions of pursuing law if I do not gain acceptance to these schools. I have seen far too many people graduate from Pitt and Duquesne University who are absolutely struggling to maintain a healthy life, let alone a prosperous one.

Thank you for your opinions.


Hello, fellow Pittsburgher.

167 should be sufficient for Cornell and Georgetown (provided you apply early). Get a 170, and you have a shot at MVPD with money (N as well if you have work experience).

Your undergraduate institution will barely (if at all) make a difference. At Penn's ASW, I met people who attended TTT/TTTT colleges and universities.

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby JamMasterJ » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:55 pm

niederbomb wrote:Dunno - mine correlated almost perfectly. I took both the SAT and the LSAT twice, and the percentages matched up rather well each time. I also studied about equally for both. To each his own, I guess.

I think mid 1200's = low 160's, and 1500=170. Of course, the scale is different now, and it's easy to get an inflated writing score by gaming the system. So no idea how it would work now.

I don't know that the subset of people who take the LSAT is that much smarter. Almost everyone (genius and idiot) takes the SAT, but people who take the LSAT are (in my experience) frequently people who, for whatever reason, don't have a viable career lined up out of UG; this could be due to lack of focus or lack of ability. A higher percentage of LSAT takers than the general college population also seems to suck at math. So I'm sure it cuts both ways. At any rate, I don't think we can make any definitive claims one way or the other.

Technically a 160 = 1200, a 165 = 1300 a 170 = 1400 and a 175 = 1500. The relationship in the percentile ranking is "drop the 1, add a 0 at the end, and multiply by 2 (166 > 66 > 660 > 1320)

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:10 pm

splitmuch wrote:
bigben wrote:
splitmuch wrote:You guys do realize that the group of people who take the LSAT is a smaller, more intelligent, and more educated (on average) subset of the people who take the SAT, right?

It makes perfect sense for something who got in the 99th percentile on the SAT to get in the 95/96th and 93rd percentiles on the LSAT. Its not that its "different" (the reading comp sections essentially test the exact same skills) as much as it is higher competition.

I mean a 1490 is 99th percentile on the SAT. While objectively good, its not the same as a 1590, and it makes sense that that the former would correlate to mid 160s LSATs.

This is wrong. While the group of people who take the LSAT is probably more intelligent on average, that doesn't explain the difference between SAT and LSAT scores. One guy earlier in the thread had a 1250 and a 176. My scores were similar to that guy. Many people have high SATs and low LSATs. The reality is that the SAT simply doesn't correlate much with the LSAT. They just test different things. I would say that the SAT is closer to testing how well you have learned math and vocabulary while the LSAT tests innate analytic ability.


Whoopdee doo anectdotal evidence. Yeah some people have bad SAT and awesome LSAT and vice versa. No shit, there are always outliers. I would bet a lot of money that in a large N study, the scores are pretty damn correlated and that a very large portion of difference between 95th and 99th percentile could be attributed entirely to the difference in abilities of the relative populations. You don't think math word problems and the reading comprehension section test innate analytic ability? A


While I do agree with you that there's prob a correlation between lsat and sat, the tests are pretty different. I'm not sure I could get the same percentile score on the sat that I did on the lsat since I suck at pure memorization and way rusty on math. GRE is a much more similar test to the SAT, and I KNOW I couldn't get in the same Percentile compared to lsat.

fwiw= 1220 on sat (didn't study much); 174 on lsat (studied like hell).

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R

Postby 06162014123 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:23 pm

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby Easy-E » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:32 pm

buckilaw wrote:
RandallPink wrote:Also, in my past I have gained Unescorted Nuclear Access to six nuclear generating stations.


Kinda random, what would a college student/paralegal be doing that requires, "Unescorted Nuclear Access to six nuclear generating stations"?


Possibly fighting Superman?

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby bigben » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:09 pm

RedShift wrote:The LSAT is different, as has been said, in that the testing population is more intelligent overall. For that reason, trying to equate a 90th percentile score on one to a 90th percentile score on the other is pointless. To throw some more anecdotal evidence into the mix, the pre-law advisor at my school asks all the underclassmen how well they did on the SAT to get a general idea of how they might perform on the LSAT.

1. your pre-law advisor is a complete idiot, like most pre-law advisors. my pre-law advisor told me that i shouldn't hope to improve more than 6-8 points from my cold practice LSAT. hilariously bad advice.
2. a lot of dumb people want to go to law school and a lot of smart people don't. i doubt very highly that the LSAT-taking population is much smarter that the SAT-taking population.
3. the LSAT is different than the SAT in many ways, not just the test-taking population.
4. if the only difference between the LSAT and the SAT is how smart the group is, then you could still predict your score by adjusting the percentiles and there would be a very strong correlation.
5. there is probably only a weak correlation between SAT and LSAT scores, which means that trying to predict your LSAT based on your SAT is stupid. on this forum and in my experience teaching the LSAT, people regularly score much better or much worse than their SAT score.

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby splitmuch » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:30 pm

bigben wrote:2. a lot of dumb people want to go to law school and a lot of smart people don't. i doubt very highly that the LSAT-taking population is much smarter that the SAT-taking population.


The SAT is taken by high school seniors including many who don't get into college at all and those who get associates degrees. The LSAT is taken almost exclusively by those who have or will receive Bachelors degrees and have post grad ambition...you really "doubt very highly" that one of those populations is smarter than the other?

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby bigben » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:56 pm

splitmuch wrote:
bigben wrote:2. a lot of dumb people want to go to law school and a lot of smart people don't. i doubt very highly that the LSAT-taking population is much smarter that the SAT-taking population.


The SAT is taken by high school seniors including many who don't get into college at all and those who get associates degrees. The LSAT is taken almost exclusively by those who have or will receive Bachelors degrees and have post grad ambition...you really "doubt very highly" that one of those populations is smarter than the other?

They may be a little smarter but certainly not MUCH smarter. Half of LSAT takers get a 150 and below. Just think long and hard about that. Hell, like 85% get a 160 and below. Wow.

Meanwhile many of the smartest people are doing things other than law school.

I've seen countless students who probably had an excellent education and work ethic from a young age and through high school. This enables them to easily earn a respectable SAT score and attend a decent college. They simply have to master the vocab and the very game-able SAT math section. But then when it comes time to take the LSAT, they can't break out of the 150's. I can't even count how many people from top 10 and top 20 undergrads I've seen unable to crack 160. Meanwhile the high LSAT scorers are found all over the place and are only slightly more common at top undergrads.

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:29 pm

bigben wrote:
splitmuch wrote:
bigben wrote:2. a lot of dumb people want to go to law school and a lot of smart people don't. i doubt very highly that the LSAT-taking population is much smarter that the SAT-taking population.


The SAT is taken by high school seniors including many who don't get into college at all and those who get associates degrees. The LSAT is taken almost exclusively by those who have or will receive Bachelors degrees and have post grad ambition...you really "doubt very highly" that one of those populations is smarter than the other?

They may be a little smarter but certainly not MUCH smarter. Half of LSAT takers get a 150 and below. Just think long and hard about that. Hell, like 85% get a 160 and below. Wow.

Meanwhile many of the smartest people are doing things other than law school.

I've seen countless students who probably had an excellent education and work ethic from a young age and through high school. This enables them to easily earn a respectable SAT score and attend a decent college. They simply have to master the vocab and the very game-able SAT math section. But then when it comes time to take the LSAT, they can't break out of the 150's. I can't even count how many people from top 10 and top 20 undergrads I've seen unable to crack 160. Meanwhile the high LSAT scorers are found all over the place and are only slightly more common at top undergrads.


isnt there a list of LSAT averages by school? pretty sure the top schools have by far the highest averages. and what you're arguing is the LSAT taking population is not that intelligent...which is fine, but relatively speaking, it is probably a helluva lot smarter as a group than the SAT taking bunch as a whole. why dont you put the numbers up of what score 85% of SAT takers do not get past? lol

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby ballpop » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:48 pm

splitmuch wrote:
ballpop wrote:
SLS_AMG wrote:
RandallPink wrote:I will be graduating from a tier 3 university next summer with a 3.9+ gpa. I have three years legal experience as a labor paralegal in Pittsburgh. Also, in my past I have gained Unescorted Nuclear Access to six nuclear generating stations.

I will be taking my lsat in June 2011. I have always scored extremely well on standardized tests and feel confident that I can score between a 168-173. Preparation will be my main priority from now until June.

Given that my university (Point Park University, downtown Pittsburgh) has no prestige, would it be possible for me to pull a T14 school with these numbers/background? I have no intentions of pursuing law if I do not gain acceptance to these schools. I have seen far too many people graduate from Pitt and Duquesne University who are absolutely struggling to maintain a healthy life, let alone a prosperous one.

Thank you for your opinions.


The LSAT isn't like the SAT, ACT or PSAT. It's much more intense, and your attempts are limited. I always did well on standardized tests, too - I scored in the top 1% on both the SAT and ACT. Naturally, I assumed the same would be true on the LSAT. Unfortunately, I was very much mistaken. I had to work my butt off to finally get a 168 - top 4% (which comes as a shock to someone who'd always been in the top 1%).

What I'm trying to say is, don't take for granted that you're going to score in the high 160s or even 170s based on your previous standardized test experience. Everyone taking the LSAT has graduated from college or is going to in the near future - meaning you aren't competing against the general population, but rather a highly educated minority in this country. It's very easy to assume (based on all the very high scorers on this forum) that getting in the 170s is a mere formality after a little bit of studying. It isn't. The high scorers on this forum represent a very, very small percentage of the test-taking population.

With that said, only you know what you're capable of. Just don't take the LSAT for granted. Good luck!


+1...I scored in the top 5% for the SATs...in FIFTH GRADE, and then in the top 1% twice in a row in high school in both sections, and then similarly in 8 AP and SAT II tests and a subject and general GRE

And I ended up with a 164/166 after hundreds of hours of studying



You guys do realize that the group of people who take the LSAT is a smaller, more intelligent, and more educated (on average) subset of the people who take the SAT, right?

It makes perfect sense for something who got in the 99th percentile on the SAT to get in the 95/96th and 93rd percentiles on the LSAT. Its not that its "different" (the reading comp sections essentially test the exact same skills) as much as it is higher competition.

I mean a 1490 is 99th percentile on the SAT. While objectively good, its not the same as a 1590, and it makes sense that that the former would correlate to mid 160s LSATs.


I got a 1580 (and a 1330 at age 12), just to be clear. And actually, my problems were in the games section (think 40%+ wrong) so maybe that is why

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby splitmuch » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:19 am

[quote="ballpopI got a 1580 (and a 1330 at age 12), just to be clear. And actually, my problems were in the games section (think 40%+ wrong) so maybe that is why[/quote]


Hm interesting. I may be guilty of using my own anectodal exprience (1590 and 178) to dictate my opinions. It does make sense that the games section would introduce the most variance, though, as I tend to think the LR and RC LSAT sections would correllate well to the SAT VR.

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby niederbomb » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:08 pm

splitmuch wrote:
ballpop wrote:
SLS_AMG wrote:
RandallPink wrote:I will be graduating from a tier 3 university next summer with a 3.9+ gpa. I have three years legal experience as a labor paralegal in Pittsburgh. Also, in my past I have gained Unescorted Nuclear Access to six nuclear generating stations.

I will be taking my lsat in June 2011. I have always scored extremely well on standardized tests and feel confident that I can score between a 168-173. Preparation will be my main priority from now until June.

Given that my university (Point Park University, downtown Pittsburgh) has no prestige, would it be possible for me to pull a T14 school with these numbers/background? I have no intentions of pursuing law if I do not gain acceptance to these schools. I have seen far too many people graduate from Pitt and Duquesne University who are absolutely struggling to maintain a healthy life, let alone a prosperous one.

Thank you for your opinions.


The LSAT isn't like the SAT, ACT or PSAT. It's much more intense, and your attempts are limited. I always did well on standardized tests, too - I scored in the top 1% on both the SAT and ACT. Naturally, I assumed the same would be true on the LSAT. Unfortunately, I was very much mistaken. I had to work my butt off to finally get a 168 - top 4% (which comes as a shock to someone who'd always been in the top 1%).

What I'm trying to say is, don't take for granted that you're going to score in the high 160s or even 170s based on your previous standardized test experience. Everyone taking the LSAT has graduated from college or is going to in the near future - meaning you aren't competing against the general population, but rather a highly educated minority in this country. It's very easy to assume (based on all the very high scorers on this forum) that getting in the 170s is a mere formality after a little bit of studying. It isn't. The high scorers on this forum represent a very, very small percentage of the test-taking population.

With that said, only you know what you're capable of. Just don't take the LSAT for granted. Good luck!


+1...I scored in the top 5% for the SATs...in FIFTH GRADE, and then in the top 1% twice in a row in high school in both sections, and then similarly in 8 AP and SAT II tests and a subject and general GRE

And I ended up with a 164/166 after hundreds of hours of studying



You guys do realize that the group of people who take the LSAT is a smaller, more intelligent, and more educated (on average) subset of the people who take the SAT, right?

It makes perfect sense for something who got in the 99th percentile on the SAT to get in the 95/96th and 93rd percentiles on the LSAT. Its not that its "different" (the reading comp sections essentially test the exact same skills) as much as it is higher competition.

I mean a 1490 is 99th percentile on the SAT. While objectively good, its not the same as a 1590, and it makes sense that that the former would correlate to mid 160s LSATs.


Actually, I'd argue that the folks who take the LSAT are an innumerate, unfocused, jobless/underemployed subset of those who took the SAT. Whether or not some of these things correlate positively with IQ and education level is a different matter.

Remember, people, TLS =/ average LSAT taker.

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby Ikki » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:15 am

niederbomb wrote:Actually, I'd argue that the folks who take the LSAT are an innumerate, unfocused, jobless/underemployed subset of those who took the SAT. Whether or not some of these things correlate positively with IQ and education level is a different matter.

Remember, people, TLS =/ average LSAT taker.


How do you know what the average LSAT taker looks like?

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby niederbomb » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:28 am

Ikki wrote:
niederbomb wrote:Actually, I'd argue that the folks who take the LSAT are an innumerate, unfocused, jobless/underemployed subset of those who took the SAT. Whether or not some of these things correlate positively with IQ and education level is a different matter.

Remember, people, TLS =/ average LSAT taker.


How do you know what the average LSAT taker looks like?


The average LSAT taker is less capable on the LSAT than the average TLS user. I don't need empirical data to make this claim, although if I weren't lazy, I could probably prove it statistically quite easily.

Back to the previous comparison, not everyone who takes the SAT even goes to college, and fewer still graduate. Thus, we have one factor that may reasonably lead us to believe that LSAT takers (who are college graduates) are more intelligent than SAT takers (some of whom do not graduate from college).

However, we also have future engineers, physicists, medical doctors, accountants, and chemists who take the SAT. We can presume that few people with an otherwise bright future ahead of them take the LSAT and plunk down $200,000 in non-dischargeable loans to attend law school (with the statistically insignificant 5% or so who attend HYSCCNMVPB as a possible slight exception). Frequently, LSAT takers chose a soft major (like Sociology) because they were bad at math (less intelligent) and thus locked out of lucrative majors like Accounting or Physics. Anecdotal evidence suggests that many, if not the majority, of people who take the LSAT do so because they graduate college with a useless major, have no idea what they want to do, and lack job prospects above teaching English or waiting tables.

Hence, I think it's totally possible that LSAT takers, as a whole, are less intelligent than the college graduate population as a whole. At the very least, LSAT takers are not located primarily among the most intelligent and capable students at their institutions (students in the hard sciences/engineering/those who make a research career in their field), nearly all of whom took the SAT along with the LSAT takers.

Thus, I don't think we have enough information to claim that the LSAT pool is somehow stronger than the SAT pool. It might be, but due to the reasons I mentioned, it might not be.

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby weejonbu » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:56 am

RandallPink wrote:I will be graduating from a tier 3 university next summer with a 3.9+ gpa. I have three years legal experience as a labor paralegal in Pittsburgh. Also, in my past I have gained Unescorted Nuclear Access to six nuclear generating stations.


Is this some Pittsburgh joke I don't get? Just thought this was weird...

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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:08 am

Your guaranteed LSAT score is equal to 1% of your TLS post count.

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Ikki
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:37 pm

Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby Ikki » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:53 pm

niederbomb wrote:
Ikki wrote:
niederbomb wrote:Actually, I'd argue that the folks who take the LSAT are an innumerate, unfocused, jobless/underemployed subset of those who took the SAT. Whether or not some of these things correlate positively with IQ and education level is a different matter.

Remember, people, TLS =/ average LSAT taker.


How do you know what the average LSAT taker looks like?


The average LSAT taker is less capable on the LSAT than the average TLS user. I don't need empirical data to make this claim, although if I weren't lazy, I could probably prove it statistically quite easily.


What? You need empirical evidence to make any and every claim. Unless, you're saying the average LSAT test taker is less capable than the average TLS user a priori, but then you would be talking metaphysics. Yes, I'm a phil major.

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ahduth
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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby ahduth » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:38 pm

weejonbu wrote:
RandallPink wrote:I will be graduating from a tier 3 university next summer with a 3.9+ gpa. I have three years legal experience as a labor paralegal in Pittsburgh. Also, in my past I have gained Unescorted Nuclear Access to six nuclear generating stations.


Is this some Pittsburgh joke I don't get? Just thought this was weird...


I dunno, but that shit is hot. You can write a personal statement about being radioactive. Too hot to handle... too cold to hold...

Also, for the hypothetical LSAT post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpBmej11bSw

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yngblkgifted
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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby yngblkgifted » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:45 pm

ballpop wrote:
SLS_AMG wrote:
RandallPink wrote:I will be graduating from a tier 3 university next summer with a 3.9+ gpa. I have three years legal experience as a labor paralegal in Pittsburgh. Also, in my past I have gained Unescorted Nuclear Access to six nuclear generating stations.

I will be taking my lsat in June 2011. I have always scored extremely well on standardized tests and feel confident that I can score between a 168-173. Preparation will be my main priority from now until June.

Given that my university (Point Park University, downtown Pittsburgh) has no prestige, would it be possible for me to pull a T14 school with these numbers/background? I have no intentions of pursuing law if I do not gain acceptance to these schools. I have seen far too many people graduate from Pitt and Duquesne University who are absolutely struggling to maintain a healthy life, let alone a prosperous one.

Thank you for your opinions.


The LSAT isn't like the SAT, ACT or PSAT. It's much more intense, and your attempts are limited. I always did well on standardized tests, too - I scored in the top 1% on both the SAT and ACT. Naturally, I assumed the same would be true on the LSAT. Unfortunately, I was very much mistaken. I had to work my butt off to finally get a 168 - top 4% (which comes as a shock to someone who'd always been in the top 1%).

What I'm trying to say is, don't take for granted that you're going to score in the high 160s or even 170s based on your previous standardized test experience. Everyone taking the LSAT has graduated from college or is going to in the near future - meaning you aren't competing against the general population, but rather a highly educated minority in this country. It's very easy to assume (based on all the very high scorers on this forum) that getting in the 170s is a mere formality after a little bit of studying. It isn't. The high scorers on this forum represent a very, very small percentage of the test-taking population.

With that said, only you know what you're capable of. Just don't take the LSAT for granted. Good luck!


+1...I scored in the top 5% for the SATs...in FIFTH GRADE, and then in the top 1% twice in a row in high school in both sections, and then similarly in 8 AP and SAT II tests and a subject and general GRE

And I ended up with a 164/166 after hundreds of hours of studying


Are you serious? I couldn't score any where near as well as you did as a fifth grader in high school! But yet we get roughly the same LSAT score? Being smart when it counts FTW!

whymeohgodno
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Re: 3.9-3.92 gpa, chances for T14?

Postby whymeohgodno » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:47 pm

The majority of the LSAT taking population is objectively stupid.




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