Why are so many rejected?

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northerniowan
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Why are so many rejected?

Postby northerniowan » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:59 pm

Hi, I'm new to TLS but have been lurking since a week or so before I took the February LSAT. I am a junior Finance major and am looking to apply for Fall 2012. I scored a 158 on the LSAT and have a 3.3 gpa. I know those numbers are horrible for TLS, but they seem to fit very nicely into admissions grids on the LSAC website and the 25-75 ranges for some schools listed on the Boston College Law School Locator.

So my main question is how come there are so many people rejected from law school? My numbers aren't great at all, but they seem to give me a competitive shot at many schools. Are there really that many people with outlandish (145) LSATs and 2.5 gpas applying to law school? Are there so many people rejected because they apply late? Or is there a great shot at me getting rejected even if my LSAT is above the school's Q1 and gpa is at the median (even if I apply early)?

I am asking this right after I looked at Rutger's (completely random, just looked out of curiosity), and saw the number of people that applied vs the number offered admissions. It was ridiculous even though the school doesn't require superb GPA or LSAT numbers.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank You.

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kk19131
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby kk19131 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:00 pm

northerniowan wrote:H
So my main question is how come there are so many people rejected from law school?



Supply and demand? :?

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paratactical
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby paratactical » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:05 pm

northerniowan wrote: Or is there a great shot at me getting rejected even if my LSAT is above the school's Q1 and gpa is at the median (even if I apply early)?


Yes. To have a strong chance at a school, both of your numbers should be above both of their medians. People admitted to law schools with numbers below median generally fall into two groups:

- URMs, great softs and/or work experience
- splitters

The first group gets a pass on their lower numbers because they add great levels of diversity to the school. Please note, when I say "great softs", I am not talking about president of several college clubs or doing annual fundraising for a charity. Great softs are extremely exclusive scholarship programs, the Peace Corps, starting your own company with great success, publishing a best selling novel, etc.

The second group can get away with one lower number because their other statistic is (typically) above the 75th. They boost one number and lower another. Schools do this to game the system.

Obviously there are the occasional exceptions to this, but TLS;DR - An LSAT at the 25th and a GPA at the median will probably result in a rejection, barring awesome additional material (i.e. curing cancer).

lhlee
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby lhlee » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:08 pm

kk19131 wrote:
northerniowan wrote:H
So my main question is how come there are so many people rejected from law school?



Supply and demand? :?


+1

northerniowan
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby northerniowan » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:17 pm

Paratactical,

Thank you for the detailed response. However, when I was referring to Q1 I meant schools where my LSAT is above the school's 75th percentile. For instance, Maine. Where My gpa might be slightly below the median but my LSAT is in the top quartile.

Also, I totally get the supply and demand thing. It seems like everyone and their mother is one of those "Well I'm actually thinking about law school. . . " guys.

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paratactical
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby paratactical » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:19 pm

northerniowan wrote:Paratactical,

Thank you for the detailed response. However, when I was referring to Q1 I meant schools where my LSAT is above the school's 75th percentile. For instance, Maine. Where My gpa might be slightly below the median but my LSAT is in the top quartile.

Also, I totally get the supply and demand thing. It seems like everyone and their mother is one of those "Well I'm actually thinking about law school. . . " guys.

Gotcha. I'm not used to the Q1 notation. There's actually a huge problem with there being too many lawyers in the country and not enough jobs, so it's interesting to see this question.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:29 pm

Because unlike a masters or MD, etc., law school does not require any type of major or have any pre-reqs besides some GPA and an LSAT lol

TyrodTaylor
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby TyrodTaylor » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:30 pm

because most people apply to the best schools that they think they have a shot at getting into. So there is going to be more rejections.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:32 pm

I read somewhere that around 30% of law school applicants don't get in anywhere. Made me wonder how many people really have numbers THAT LOW, and how many are just unwise and don't apply to any safeties.

northerniowan
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby northerniowan » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:35 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:I read somewhere that around 30% of law school applicants don't get in anywhere. Made me wonder how many people really have numbers THAT LOW, and how many are just unwise and don't apply to any safeties.


That is EXACTLY what made me wonder. I mean I didn't think my numbers were stellar, but it seems like I can get into places. So do that many people with horrible LSATs really apply thinking they have a chance?

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paratactical
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby paratactical » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:36 pm

northerniowan wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:I read somewhere that around 30% of law school applicants don't get in anywhere. Made me wonder how many people really have numbers THAT LOW, and how many are just unwise and don't apply to any safeties.


That is EXACTLY what made me wonder. I mean I didn't think my numbers were stellar, but it seems like I can get into places. So do that many people with horrible LSATs really apply thinking they have a chance?

People apply to lots and lots of schools. I think a lot of people on TLS apply to 12+ schools, so that might make a difference.

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fundamentallybroken
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby fundamentallybroken » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:38 pm

northerniowan wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:I read somewhere that around 30% of law school applicants don't get in anywhere. Made me wonder how many people really have numbers THAT LOW, and how many are just unwise and don't apply to any safeties.


That is EXACTLY what made me wonder. I mean I didn't think my numbers were stellar, but it seems like I can get into places. So do that many people with horrible LSATs really apply thinking they have a chance?


Considering 151 is 50th percentile, I don't think it's unimaginable then that 30% of applicants don't get in anywhere. Even Cooley would have to turn people away if half of all LSAT takers applied.

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northwood
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby northwood » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:40 pm

Well getting a 151 or something puts you at the 50% for all LSAT takers. So- people will apply with a LSAT score of 151 and think its decent. However, they wont get in a decent school. That being said- a lot of people will think they did well on the test, and think their gpa is high, and apply anyways after doing minimal research.

northerniowan
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby northerniowan » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:43 pm

I think I'm starting to feel a little bit better about where I am at lol. I think reading about everyone's 170 after the scores were released kind of bummed me out/scared me a little bit. I know I can always retake though.

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:44 pm

fundamentallybroken wrote:Considering 151 is 50th percentile, I don't think it's unimaginable then that 30% of applicants don't get in anywhere. Even Cooley would have to turn people away if half of all LSAT takers applied.


This is interestingly something that is not talked about on here very often at all. Granted, there aren't tons and tons of 170+ LSATs around, but TLS has its fair share. But for roughly every LSAT in the 169-171 range, there is usually an LSAT that is in the 130 range.

Yet you never hear of people who have an LSAT that low. The lowest anyone on here ever seems to have is around the low 140s. And those are just as common as the high 160s. I think our perception is off when we only hang around TLS, haha.

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mrtoren
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby mrtoren » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:16 pm

Keep in mind that the median score is about a 151. That essentially knocks out almost 50% of the test-takers..unless they're willing to go to a terrible school without scholarships. I may be ranting, but I think its sad that some people continue to cling to the notion that they're cut out to be lawyers despite all evidence to the contrary. Many of them end up shelling out huge amounts of money to go to Tier 4 schools, E.G. Thomas Jefferson Law School, and end up with no job and no way out of debt. I wish LSAC would institute a cut off that prevents those with lower scores and GPA's from being preyed upon by these schools. Maybe I'm a little radical, but I think its for the person's own good. If you do any research on the current legal job market, its scary for anyone outside of the top 50 schools and near suicide for those outside of the top 100.

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Justathought
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby Justathought » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:14 am

I know a current student and a 0L who applied to one school only. Luckily, they got in. I also know a guy who had one school in mind, because of family constraints, and was denied. Some people are just not gun-ho on law school, so they look for a school in their area, maybe they look for a part-time program, and are basically like, "Well, if I get in here I'll go to law school."

It sounds crazy to a lot of us who hedge our bets so thoroughly, but many people are not concerned with options, scholarship money, or a program's reputation. I'm not inclined to agree with them, but its their dime.

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Stonewall
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Re: Why are so many rejected?

Postby Stonewall » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:20 am

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:
fundamentallybroken wrote:Considering 151 is 50th percentile, I don't think it's unimaginable then that 30% of applicants don't get in anywhere. Even Cooley would have to turn people away if half of all LSAT takers applied.


This is interestingly something that is not talked about on here very often at all. Granted, there aren't tons and tons of 170+ LSATs around, but TLS has its fair share. But for roughly every LSAT in the 169-171 range, there is usually an LSAT that is in the 130 range.

Yet you never hear of people who have an LSAT that low. The lowest anyone on here ever seems to have is around the low 140s. And those are just as common as the high 160s. I think our perception is off when we only hang around TLS, haha.


perceptions are altered without a doubt




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