Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

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mdwannabejd
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Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby mdwannabejd » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:08 pm

Hi folks,

I am a medical doctor that has been practicing as a subspecialty surgeon for 10 years and is ready to pursue my true passion of studying the law. I would be most appreciative of any advice on how competitive my application will be considering the following somewhat atypical stats and background.

41 years old, practicing surgeon for 10 years
Undergraduate GPA in challenging undergrad pre-med program at McGill University 3.61. Suffered "sophmore jinx" and had bad second year. Graduated with "Great Distinction"
Medical School at McGill University
Internship and 5 years of postgrad residency training plus one year subspecialty fellowship
MBA degree from University of Michigan during first job in academic medicine
LSAT of 166 = 94 percentile in 1991 (20 yrs ago!!). Will write again this summer...assuming similar or better score
Numerous research papers from first job in academic medicine
Leadership skills of starting up and running solo surgical practice
Selected to America's Top Surgeons every year since 2007
Manuscript reviewer for many years for several scientific journals
Lectured nationally and internationally in my subspecialty area
Married with two girls 4 and 6
Dual citizen of USA and Canada

Please advise on chances of acceptance at Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Northwestern, Univ Texas, Univ Michigan (alumni), UC Berkeley.

Please also recommend any other schools that you feel might be suitable

I am new to this forum and this whole concept of applications and stats etc so I sure appreciate your comments!!

Thanks! :)

MDwannabeJD

CanadianWolf
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:12 pm

Yale, Stanford & Harvard are tough to predict due to acceptance rates of about 9%, 8% & 10% respectively, but it is difficult to imagine any law school rejecting you assuming an LSAT score in the mid-160s or higher. Northwestern may be your most likely option among the six law schools listed & would be interesting since Northwestern's law school shares a beautiful Lake Michigan lake front campus in Chicago with Northwestern's medical school.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Veyron
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:15 pm

Harvard - No
Yale - Maybe. Though Yale is usually the toughest school in the country to crack and your numbers are waaaaaay subpar, your background might be just the sort of thing they would, in a very Yale - like way - overlook numerical quality for. Don't get your hopes up, they usually only do this for famous authors and the like.
Stanford - No

All others, legitimate shot. Even though your GPA sucks for Berk, they do and will go below their 25% GPA for people like you.

170 or above and I would be shocked to see no HYS on the admit list. I question if you are intelligent enough to get a 170 since you have demonstrated poor cognitive skills by ditching a stunningly successful career in medicine to tempt fate among the wilderness of law school but I respect your need to follow your passion.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:20 pm

Are you practising medicine in Canada or in the US ? (Not sure if "Americas' Top Surgeons is limited to US or to N. America) If in Canada, are you pleased with the medical care system ? Are you considering McGill or Toronto law schools ?
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:21 pm

I don't know how much money you make as a sub-specialty surgeon, but many specialists (especially surgeons) make bank. Compared to the medical field, law is shit shit shit. You say that law is your true passion, but the fact is medicine is the rational choice here. If I was smart enough to make it in med school, I would NOT be going to law school. I think that many on TLS feel similarly.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:22 pm

Veyron wrote:You have demonstrated poor cognitive skills by ditching a stunningly successful career in medicine to tempt fate among the wilderness of law school but I respect your need to follow your passion.

I meant to quote this in my above post, for TITCR, +160K

Danteshek
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby Danteshek » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:23 pm

Out of curiosity, why do you want to be a lawyer? I would think University of Toronto would be the appropriate choice for a Canadian citizen. From what I understand it is on the same level as a top-3 law school in the US.

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Veyron
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:24 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:I don't know how much money you make as a sub-specialty surgeon, but many specialists (especially surgeons) make bank. Compared to the medical field, law is shit shit shit. You say that law is your true passion, but the fact is medicine is the rational choice here. If I was smart enough to make it in med school, I would NOT be going to law school. I think that many on TLS feel similarly.


TBF, law appeals to a completely different type of person than medicine. I would be miserable in medicine no matter how much you paid me.

Still, ceteris paribus, WTF?

dddhhh
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby dddhhh » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:25 pm

I think you have a good shot at making it if you craft your application well, especially your PS & Why Law essay. For someone with your success in the medical field it is important to show why you want to study/practice law. Also, what type of law are you interested in?

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:27 pm

Veyron wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:I don't know how much money you make as a sub-specialty surgeon, but many specialists (especially surgeons) make bank. Compared to the medical field, law is shit shit shit. You say that law is your true passion, but the fact is medicine is the rational choice here. If I was smart enough to make it in med school, I would NOT be going to law school. I think that many on TLS feel similarly.


TBF, law appeals to a completely different type of person than medicine. I would be miserable in medicine no matter how much you paid me.

I have no doubt that law and medicine attracts different personalities and people with different career goals. I was looking at this from a purely rational perspective. Those last two sentences were more of a digress than anything. Right now, job prospects in medicine > job prospects in law. ESPECIALLY for an already established practicing surgeon.

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nygrrrl
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:27 pm

Hi there! Welcome to TLS - there are many resources here that I hope you'll find useful.
First off... ignore MrPapaG (we get it, G - the money sucks.) :lol:
There are one if not two MD's in this thread who are doing what you hope to do
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=143047
plus, it's a great resource for those of us who are (ahem) over 30 and may have different concerns from some of our classmates.
First thing is, get that LSAT score up. I loved the PowerScore books but check out the threads on how to do well - PM or post with questions and again, welcome!

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:33 pm

nygrrrl wrote:First off... ignore MrPapaG (we get it, G - the money sucks.) :lol:

First thing is, get that LSAT score up. I loved the PowerScore books but check out the threads on how to do well - PM or post with questions and again, welcome!


You include Veyron then you single me out? Come on :lol:

But on a real note, the second part is good advice. With a 170 LSAT you should get in to at least one of HYS. Good luck. And personally, PowerScore raised my LSAT 13 points (156-169). :D

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nygrrrl
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:40 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:First off... ignore MrPapaG (we get it, G - the money sucks.) :lol:

First thing is, get that LSAT score up. I loved the PowerScore books but check out the threads on how to do well - PM or post with questions and again, welcome!


You include Veyron then you single me out? Come on :lol:

But on a real note, the second part is good advice. With a 170 LSAT you should get in to at least one of HYS. Good luck. And personally, PowerScore raised my LSAT 13 points (156-169). :D

Haha - I was actually about to write Vey a more biting note because I thought he made a different point than you did... :lol: (Not so ninja, today - up waaay late working.)
I get where you guys are coming from, but the crazy truth is that some of us older folks have done really well in our first careers, hit the top of our game... and now actually want to go to law school. I know it doesn't sound logical but sometimes... there really IS more to it than the money. (And yeah, PowerScore FTW)

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Veyron
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:45 pm

nygrrrl wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:First off... ignore MrPapaG (we get it, G - the money sucks.) :lol:

First thing is, get that LSAT score up. I loved the PowerScore books but check out the threads on how to do well - PM or post with questions and again, welcome!


You include Veyron then you single me out? Come on :lol:

But on a real note, the second part is good advice. With a 170 LSAT you should get in to at least one of HYS. Good luck. And personally, PowerScore raised my LSAT 13 points (156-169). :D

Haha - I was actually about to write Vey a more biting note because I thought he made a different point than you did... :lol: (Not so ninja, today - up waaay late working.)
I get where you guys are coming from, but the crazy truth is that some of us older folks have done really well in our first careers, hit the top of our game... and now actually want to go to law school. I know it doesn't sound logical but sometimes... there really IS more to it than the money. (And yeah, PowerScore FTW)


Now I'm curious, how DID you interpret what I said?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:51 pm

OP: Research "law & medicine" journals to develop a list of some target schools if you want to write & edit.

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mez06
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby mez06 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:53 pm

Veyron wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:First off... ignore MrPapaG (we get it, G - the money sucks.) :lol:

First thing is, get that LSAT score up. I loved the PowerScore books but check out the threads on how to do well - PM or post with questions and again, welcome!


You include Veyron then you single me out? Come on :lol:

But on a real note, the second part is good advice. With a 170 LSAT you should get in to at least one of HYS. Good luck. And personally, PowerScore raised my LSAT 13 points (156-169). :D

Haha - I was actually about to write Vey a more biting note because I thought he made a different point than you did... :lol: (Not so ninja, today - up waaay late working.)
I get where you guys are coming from, but the crazy truth is that some of us older folks have done really well in our first careers, hit the top of our game... and now actually want to go to law school. I know it doesn't sound logical but sometimes... there really IS more to it than the money. (And yeah, PowerScore FTW)


Now I'm curious, how DID you interpret what I said?


Let's not make this thread about you. Resuming to deliver a diagnosis for the good Dr. is what is needed.

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nygrrrl
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:53 pm

Veyron wrote:Now I'm curious, how DID you interpret what I said?

(I'd decided not to address this, but since you asked....) Even if you meant it as a joke (which you probably did), I think your snarky comment about OP's intelligence and cognitive skills was ridiculous and condescending. Guy's very successful, seems to have his ducks in a row, clearly knows what he wants and probably has about 15 years' worth of life experience on you... personally? Rather than dissing his choice to try for law school, I'd be more interested in knowing how he did so well by the age of 41. Seems like his intelligence and cognitive skills might have been a part of that. :wink:

ETA: sorry mez, I'd already posted when I saw your appropriate, helpful response. Back to helping OP!

BeenDidThat
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby BeenDidThat » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:55 pm

nygrrrl wrote:
Veyron wrote:Now I'm curious, how DID you interpret what I said?

(I'd decided not to address this, but since you asked....) Even if you meant it as a joke (which you probably did), I think your snarky comment about OP's intelligence and cognitive skills was ridiculous and condescending. Guy's very successful, seems to have his ducks in a row, clearly knows what he wants and probably has about 15 years' worth of life experience on you... personally? Rather than dissing his choice to try for law school, I'd be more interested in knowing how he did so well by the age of 41. Seems like his intelligence and cognitive skills might have been a part of that. :wink:


+1

Capitol A
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby Capitol A » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:52 pm

BeenDidThat wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:
Veyron wrote:Now I'm curious, how DID you interpret what I said?

(I'd decided not to address this, but since you asked....) Even if you meant it as a joke (which you probably did), I think your snarky comment about OP's intelligence and cognitive skills was ridiculous and condescending. Guy's very successful, seems to have his ducks in a row, clearly knows what he wants and probably has about 15 years' worth of life experience on you... personally? Rather than dissing his choice to try for law school, I'd be more interested in knowing how he did so well by the age of 41. Seems like his intelligence and cognitive skills might have been a part of that. :wink:


+1

Hate to perpetuate a thread derail, but feel the need to jump in here...
I know that there is no voice inflection on the internet, but I'm pretty sure Veyron's comment was a joke. Lighten up. Even if he was serious, OP is a freaking surgeon. It's safe to assume that he's confident enough in his intelligence to not have his feelings hurt by some anonymous poster on an internet forum.

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nygrrrl
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:28 pm

Capitol A wrote:Hate to perpetuate a thread derail

Then let's not, OK?
Back to helping OP!

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Veyron
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:32 pm

nygrrrl wrote:
Veyron wrote:Now I'm curious, how DID you interpret what I said?

(I'd decided not to address this, but since you asked....) Even if you meant it as a joke (which you probably did), I think your snarky comment about OP's intelligence and cognitive skills was ridiculous and condescending. Guy's very successful, seems to have his ducks in a row, clearly knows what he wants and probably has about 15 years' worth of life experience on you... personally? Rather than dissing his choice to try for law school, I'd be more interested in knowing how he did so well by the age of 41. Seems like his intelligence and cognitive skills might have been a part of that. :wink:

ETA: sorry mez, I'd already posted when I saw your appropriate, helpful response. Back to helping OP!



Oh, it was just a good humored busting of his chops. Obviously the guy is very accomplished. No need to be defensive.

oxygenate
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby oxygenate » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:40 pm

Stay in medicine. The people there are nicer than those in law.

sullidop
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby sullidop » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:48 pm

Image

mdwannabejd
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby mdwannabejd » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:00 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Are you practising medicine in Canada or in the US ? (Not sure if "Americas' Top Surgeons is limited to US or to N. America) If in Canada, are you pleased with the medical care system ? Are you considering McGill or Toronto law schools ?


Canadian Wolf, thanks for the messages. I am practicing in Texas and both my girls were born in the US and we have no intention of returning to Canada. Love the U.S., hate the Cdn healthcare system and the cold weather. Thanks again!

TheStrand
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Re: Doctor wanting to be lawyer needs advice on chances

Postby TheStrand » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:00 pm

mdwannabejd wrote:Please also recommend any other schools that you feel might be suitable

Where do you want to end up practicing and do you have a vague idea of what kind of law? And what your wife wants to do while you're in school or where your girls might go for school?

Northwestern would probably love to have you, and they have an two year accelerated JD program as well so if you are in a hurry to get back to the workforce, that would be nice. Plus Chicago would offer a big market for your wife to find employment if she needed to. Any particular reason you didn't list Columbia or NYU?




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