Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

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energizer
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Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:19 pm

Correct me if Im wrong, but it appears that your LSAT score and then your GPA places you into the Tier and your softs and personal statement just consolidates your chances within that tier. In other words, softs and PS dont offer much mobility from tier to tier. Thanks. your input will be greatly appreciated.

FiveSermon
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby FiveSermon » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:30 pm

That sounds about right.

ClosetStateSchooler
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby ClosetStateSchooler » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:32 pm

I've heard, and let me emphasize heard, that bad softs/ps can really hurt you but good ones wont help you too much...then again if your a Rhodes Scholar who was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor, that will definitely help your chances.

energizer
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:35 pm

LOL. I guess that answers that. Sounds like the more boring the student body the better. Especially those with amazing LSATs and mediocre to nonexistent softs.

ImpatientlyWaiting
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby ImpatientlyWaiting » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:44 pm

But the "tiers" are huge. Within each tier, and especially in the T14, softs do make a big difference in the admissions process. LSAT and GPA are merely used as measures of projected academic performance in law school. These schools place an emphasis on diversity, not just in terms of background, but in terms of ideas and opinions. I'd hardly call that boring. Try getting into a top school with "mediocre to non-existent softs." Won't happen.

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nygrrrl
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby nygrrrl » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:47 pm

ImpatientlyWaiting wrote:But the "tiers" are huge. Within each tier, and especially in the T14, softs do make a big difference in the admissions process. LSAT and GPA are merely used as measures of projected academic performance in law school. These schools place an emphasis on diversity, not just in terms of background, but in terms of ideas and opinions. I'd hardly call that boring. Try getting into a top school with "mediocre to non-existent softs." Won't happen.

I tend to agree with this. Your PS and softs generally won't move you from T2 to T1 but within a tier they can make a BIG difference.

energizer
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:54 pm

That makes more sense. There is a ray of hope. Im still wondering if the possibility of tier to . tier mobility does exist with good softs and PS.

FiveSermon
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby FiveSermon » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:58 pm

ImpatientlyWaiting wrote:But the "tiers" are huge. Within each tier, and especially in the T14, softs do make a big difference in the admissions process. LSAT and GPA are merely used as measures of projected academic performance in law school. These schools place an emphasis on diversity, not just in terms of background, but in terms of ideas and opinions. I'd hardly call that boring. Try getting into a top school with "mediocre to non-existent softs." Won't happen.


Softs make a big difference in the T14? I think it should be said for Yale+Stanford+Berkeley. Not really for others (maybe with the exception of Northwestern?).

energizer
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:02 pm

How about the URM boost? Does anyone have any well substantiated from from insiders? I know Ana Ivey stated a definite 10 point boost for AA and a 3 point boost for Hispanics of all kinds. Does this sound correct?

FiveSermon
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby FiveSermon » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:33 pm

energizer wrote:How about the URM boost? Does anyone have any well substantiated from from insiders? I know Ana Ivey stated a definite 10 point boost for AA and a 3 point boost for Hispanics of all kinds. Does this sound correct?


I think it's hard to define the exact boost that URM's get but I wouldn't be surprised at all if what Ana Ivey wrote applies generally to most t14 schools. I would have expected a bigger boost for particular Hispanics though.

energizer
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:38 pm

I was waitlisted at W&L with LSAT 156 GPA 3.8 way below their numbers . An AA got in with LSAT 158 GPA 3,3 Why was I even waitlisted I expected an outright rejection. Although for all intents and purposes I have a less than 10% chance of admission

FiveSermon
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby FiveSermon » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:44 pm

energizer wrote:I was waitlisted at W&L with LSAT 156 GPA 3.8 way below their numbers . An AA got in with LSAT 158 GPA 3,3 Why was I even waitlisted I expected an outright rejection. Although for all intents and purposes I have a less than 10% chance of admission


Some schools love to waitlist people. I'm not sure if W&L is one but you can take a waitlist as a soft rejection for most schools.

energizer
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:50 pm

I agree

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NorCalBruin
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby NorCalBruin » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:25 pm

How about the URM boost? Does anyone have any well substantiated from from insiders? I know Ana Ivey stated a definite 10 point boost for AA and a 3 point boost for Hispanics of all kinds. Does this sound correct?


How much of a boost being an AA or a Hispanic gives you depends on the school, the region that school is in, what kind of diversity they are looking for, and what their typical applicant pool is like. I'm sure a regional school in San Diego, say USD for instance, doesn't have much trouble finding Hispanic applicants, but Vermont University might. As such, the boost they give for hispanic applicants might be different. It all depends and it certainly isn't "definite". It is certainly significant though.

That said, I would choose your words more carefully. I know when you say "a definite 10 point boost for AA" you're not implying that they actually raise your score by 10 points. That's ridiculous. But, in some ways, it still discredits the intelligence and hard work of people who score ten points higher than you. Your score is your score, and nothing about your skin color or heritage changes that. You have a greater chance of admission, yes, but not a higher score.

energizer
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:01 pm

ihope youre right.10 point boost was not well defined.

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AreJay711
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby AreJay711 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:29 pm

NorCalBruin wrote:
How about the URM boost? Does anyone have any well substantiated from from insiders? I know Ana Ivey stated a definite 10 point boost for AA and a 3 point boost for Hispanics of all kinds. Does this sound correct?


How much of a boost being an AA or a Hispanic gives you depends on the school, the region that school is in, what kind of diversity they are looking for, and what their typical applicant pool is like. I'm sure a regional school in San Diego, say USD for instance, doesn't have much trouble finding Hispanic applicants, but Vermont University might. As such, the boost they give for hispanic applicants might be different. It all depends and it certainly isn't "definite". It is certainly significant though.

That said, I would choose your words more carefully. I know when you say "a definite 10 point boost for AA" you're not implying that they actually raise your score by 10 points. That's ridiculous. But, in some ways, it still discredits the intelligence and hard work of people who score ten points higher than you. Your score is your score, and nothing about your skin color or heritage changes that. You have a greater chance of admission, yes, but not a higher score.

What people are saying is that the boost for being black is roughly equal to 10 extra points on the LSAT. There are a lot of reasons for that but mostly it is that schools want racial diversity (for the educational benefit and because they would look bad 99% white students) and black LSAT takers score around 10 points lower than white test takers.

Also, yeah it does discredit people who score better but it is important to realize that the schools aren't doing this to help the minority applicants really but rather to make themselves look better and to bring in the widest range of diversity possible for the best educational setting possible for all students.

FiveSermon
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby FiveSermon » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:46 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
NorCalBruin wrote:
How about the URM boost? Does anyone have any well substantiated from from insiders? I know Ana Ivey stated a definite 10 point boost for AA and a 3 point boost for Hispanics of all kinds. Does this sound correct?


How much of a boost being an AA or a Hispanic gives you depends on the school, the region that school is in, what kind of diversity they are looking for, and what their typical applicant pool is like. I'm sure a regional school in San Diego, say USD for instance, doesn't have much trouble finding Hispanic applicants, but Vermont University might. As such, the boost they give for hispanic applicants might be different. It all depends and it certainly isn't "definite". It is certainly significant though.

That said, I would choose your words more carefully. I know when you say "a definite 10 point boost for AA" you're not implying that they actually raise your score by 10 points. That's ridiculous. But, in some ways, it still discredits the intelligence and hard work of people who score ten points higher than you. Your score is your score, and nothing about your skin color or heritage changes that. You have a greater chance of admission, yes, but not a higher score.

What people are saying is that the boost for being black is roughly equal to 10 extra points on the LSAT. There are a lot of reasons for that but mostly it is that schools want racial diversity (for the educational benefit and because they would look bad 99% white students) and black LSAT takers score around 10 points lower than white test takers.

Also, yeah it does discredit people who score better but it is important to realize that the schools aren't doing this to help the minority applicants really but rather to make themselves look better and to bring in the widest range of diversity possible for the best educational setting possible for all students.


I take offense to this. Not all non-white minorities score low on the LSAT. Asians anyone?

taxguy
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby taxguy » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:47 pm

Although my son is NOT a URM, he has some very strong softs. In fact, other than winning something like a Pulitizer Prize, I would bet his softs are probably better than almost anyone on these boards for a non-URM. However, he had lousy LSATs: 144 and 146 respectively. I will post what happens to him on admission. It should clarify once and for all the effect a strong bunch of soft factors have on admission. I would bet, however, that even with his very strong soft factors, it won't make any difference for any school.
Last edited by taxguy on Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

energizer
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:50 pm

i hope youre wrong good luck

hjag
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby hjag » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:00 am

FiveSermon wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
NorCalBruin wrote:
How about the URM boost? Does anyone have any well substantiated from from insiders? I know Ana Ivey stated a definite 10 point boost for AA and a 3 point boost for Hispanics of all kinds. Does this sound correct?


How much of a boost being an AA or a Hispanic gives you depends on the school, the region that school is in, what kind of diversity they are looking for, and what their typical applicant pool is like. I'm sure a regional school in San Diego, say USD for instance, doesn't have much trouble finding Hispanic applicants, but Vermont University might. As such, the boost they give for hispanic applicants might be different. It all depends and it certainly isn't "definite". It is certainly significant though.

That said, I would choose your words more carefully. I know when you say "a definite 10 point boost for AA" you're not implying that they actually raise your score by 10 points. That's ridiculous. But, in some ways, it still discredits the intelligence and hard work of people who score ten points higher than you. Your score is your score, and nothing about your skin color or heritage changes that. You have a greater chance of admission, yes, but not a higher score.

What people are saying is that the boost for being black is roughly equal to 10 extra points on the LSAT. There are a lot of reasons for that but mostly it is that schools want racial diversity (for the educational benefit and because they would look bad 99% white students) and black LSAT takers score around 10 points lower than white test takers.

Also, yeah it does discredit people who score better but it is important to realize that the schools aren't doing this to help the minority applicants really but rather to make themselves look better and to bring in the widest range of diversity possible for the best educational setting possible for all students.


I take offense to this. Not all non-white minorities score low on the LSAT. Asians anyone?

+1

I hate filling out the "Asian" box under ethnicity. Seriously. Rumor has it, you're held to different standards... at least they said that about college admissions.

crit_racer
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby crit_racer » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:34 pm

I'm just glad you don't have to check a box for "jew"

parsi
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Re: Do softs and personal statements really have any value ?

Postby parsi » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:08 pm

crit_racer wrote:I'm just glad you don't have to check a box for "jew"


Why not? It would probably lead to auto admit




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