Curious about what "Reach" schools I can add? (AA Male) Forum

[daburrel]

I have applied to the following 7 schools, all W/ fee waivers except my top choice (go figure) Loyola. I also have a Fee Waiver for Tulane which I will apply to next week sometime.

I am wondering w/ a 151/2.7 do I have reach schools that I should add to my list? I know Penn State is one but I had a waiver and LSU is one too but I am a New Orleans resident so I took a shot.

Consider: If I can get money from ANY school, I will strongly consider them BUT I am not debt scared. I am looking for New York, Louisiana or Florida but willing to apply to other states (hopefully none on West Coast) for "reach" schools. I hear you can add 8pts to your LSAT being a AA male, not sure how true that is. I am not considering retaking unless I don't get into any schools I apply, Loyola = auto accept unless other school offer full or 75% tuition.

Penn State University (Dickinson)
St. Thomas University - Florida
Barry University School of Law
New York Law School
Louisiana State - Baton Rouge
Loyola University New Orleans
Florida Coastal School of Law

[NorCalBruin]

Please don't say "you can add 8 points to your LSAT score being an AA", because I think that really discredits the hard work and the intelligence of people who scored eight points higher than you. You don't have a 159. You have a 151, and nothing about your status as an african american makes your LSAT any higher.

BUT you do have something that schools want: diversity. And that will give you a big boost. Now, is that boost going to put you on par with someone who has a 159? Maybe. I would say that's generous. It's unpredictable and it depends on the school. You never know exactly how an URM's cycle is going to go.

That said, your GPA is awesomely mediocre. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do about that.

Your school list is (sorry to be frank) horrid. If I were you I would retake the LSAT, score above a 160, and take a hefty scholarship to one of the schools you want to go to.

You say you are not scared of debt. Why? Do you have a job lined up? If not, those schools are going to have a difficult time finding you one. I should also mention bankruptcy does not discharge debt.

EDIT: By debt I mean school loan debt.

[daburrel]

oh I know bankruptcy doesn't get rid of school loan debt. I wasn't looking at that as my way out anyway. I am not afraid of debt for the reason of me having a plan in tact. Also, it wasn't my words that say "add 8pts" I just saw it on URM forum.

I believe my Application will stand out from my PS (surviving Hurricane Katrina) and my GPA is low because my 3 semesters were horrible, I transferred University after only 1 semester because I needed to head home to help my family rebuild. I wasn't totally focused those 1st 3 semesters because I was in rebuild mode but I didn't want to sit out semesters because of the fear of never going back. I don't want to discredit the guys who hit a 159 by no means I was just asking out of curiosity.

[NorCalBruin]

Again, URM's are hard to predict, and their PS's are probably given a closer look than most and, as such, do merit a certain level of consideration. Nevertheless, they still play second fiddle to your GPA and LSAT score (for better or worse).

As for the schools you asked about (using LSN, LSP, and School Websites)

Penn State University (Dickinson) --OUT
St. Thomas University - Florida --OUT
Barry University School of Law --IN (maybe small scholarship, around $7,000, MAYBE)
New York Law School --OUT/WL (Almost everyone with your stats and URM were out, but one with lower got in)
Louisiana State - Baton Rouge --OUT
Loyola University New Orleans--OUT-from their website: "A. Generally speaking, not less than a 154 LSAT score and a 3.4 GPA (A higher LSAT can balance off a lower GPA and vice versa)."
Florida Coastal School of Law--IN (they accepted several URMs with similar numbers last year)

[Rand M.]

I am not afraid of debt for the reason of me having a plan in tact.

What is this plan?

[2011Law]

I am not afraid of debt for the reason of me having a plan in tact.

What is this plan?

I'd also like to know this. I don't mean to be an ass, but your future as a lawyer does not look bright. You would probably not be going to an accredited law school if it weren't for you being a URM. The schools you do get into, you should expect to graduate bottom half, since you are really over-extending yourself. Unless you have a job lined up even if you graduate last in your class, I would not be going to law school, at least not unless you get a significantly better LSAT and get some work experience and thus be able to get into a better school.


EDIT: one other thing, did you mean to say 'in fact' or 'intact'? Intact is one word.

[daburrel]

That's weird using LSP, St. Thomas had me "Strong Consider" as well as Loyola had the same. Also, I understand the Loyola situation BUT they accepted a URM with a 1433 to their summer conditional program so I believe with my entire app, along with a LOR from a alumni I should have a shot, right? Not to mention if you look on their last year cycle, Loyola accepted MANY less than 154's....maybe old standards.

As far as my plan, I will repeat myself. I went to undergrad for Business. I plan on starting my own business which relates to law, to the specifics I don't feel I need to tell the exact business plan/model. Like I also said before, Johnny Cochran went to Loyola LA when they were not T1 or T2 and look where he was. I don't want to go into BigLaw and it seems everyone on this site wants to and all advice is pertaining to BigLaw.

Yes, my GPA is horrible. However, like I mention my 1st 3 semesters were 2.0's (cum. 2.19 for those 3) and I explain that in my PS and my GPA Addendum. I was rebuilding my life after Hurricane Katrina while also trying to attend school (TOUGH). I had to transfer from my 1st college to school in my hometown to be closer to home to really help rather than coming home every weekend like I was doing. I think the explanation of my GPA will be well taken and not that the Committee will look at it as if my GPA was 3.5 but hopefully they overlook it and focus on me.

Work Experience, I have PLENTY. I was working throughout Undergrad to be able to fund my college tuition, continue buying clothing that was destroyed a year previously, and all the other bills that come with life.

[2011Law]

As far as my plan, I will repeat myself. I went to undergrad for Business. I plan on starting my own business which relates to law, to the specifics I don't feel I need to tell the exact business plan/model. Like I also said before, Johnny Cochran went to Loyola LA when they were not T1 or T2 and look where he was. I don't want to go into BigLaw and it seems everyone on this site wants to and all advice is pertaining to BigLaw.

Do you actually need a jd for this business? If not, don't go to law school. Before you start a law firm, even a small one, you need to have experience working as a lawyer, because they teach you the law in law school, not how to be a lawyer; didn't you ever see My Cousin Vinny? To get any kind of job as a lawyer from the schools you are looking at, I would hazard to guess you need to be in the top 30%. Again, not to go into biglaw, just to get the shittiest lawyer job there is. Also, Cochran didn't graduate ITE.

EDIT: sp

[NorCalBruin]

After going through LSN a few more years, I will revise 2 of my predictions:

St. Thomas--WL--there's just not much data, especially for URM's with your stats, that's why I originally said out. Their median is 157 and 3.39, which is fairly high above your numbers. It looks like a student got in with similar numbers a few years ago... but then again, that was a few years ago and early in the cycle. Basically this is a crapshoot.

Loyola New Orleans--WL/IN...--you're numbers are still significantly below their medians, it's late in the cycle, and I can only find one URM who got admitted with similar numbers (but that was two years ago). BUT they don't seem to have a hard floor for GPA (they've gone as low as 2.35) or a hard floor for LSATs (they've taken 141), AND if any place is going to take your Hurricane Katrina horror story in to account it's going to be a school in New Orleans. (Then again, your story might not seem special to this school who has other similar applicants). Again, crapshoot... but better shot and worth the app fee.

[bergg007]

Any School in LA is going to see the Katrina thing as cliche at this point. Kind of like a lot of New York Schools with (9/11) PS's. Unless Katrina and your experience were truly abnormal/extreme and created/instilled a desire to attend Law School (and not the BS i want to help people crap) I would take a different angle and then hammer at Katrina in your GPA addendums. But I have to say the best advice i can give is to study and retake the LSAT as cliche as it is its true. there is nothing in your application that truly sets you apart from the herd of applicants. What in your application tells them that you will succeed? You have a poor GPA and a mediocre LSAT. you have excuses but nothing substantial to point at as proof of your intellectual ability, at least not that you've noted here. This will all come down to softs. there are probably an hundred other applicants out ther with better numbers than you and the same story. Your job as an applicant is to tell the adcomms what makes you special and why they should take you over a more academically accomplished person. You may have a great reason, but it's not listed here.

[daburrel]

You know I am talking bout St. Thomas - Florida right?

also you are correct, Johnny Cochran didn't have to deal with this economy but I am sure if he had listened to people advice then we would never know of him. I won't take over tremendous debt, nor am I money hungry so BigLaw will not be in my plans so I will be okay with T3/T4 because I have a plan and people could talk about "ITE" but I am sure my plans are unlike most applicants plans so we don't compare.

[daburrel]

as far as St. Thomas University of Florida goes...."Congratulations, you have been admitted"

[jaestro]

You still should heavily consider retaking. Just 10 more correct responses could get you a full ride. I think a lot of successful lawyers from T3 or T4 had a hustlers spirit, and nothing to lose. However, if you goto a T3 or T4 with sticker, your plan might get screwed, because you are going to be owing serious cash. If you get a nice scholarship, you can spend your first year making sure your grades are ok, then spend the next two working at some low paying law firm hopefully picking up some tricks of the trade. Then, you will graduate without any debt, and have a jump start on experience to do your own thing.

[daburrel]

You still should heavily consider retaking. Just 10 more correct responses could get you a full ride. I think a lot of successful lawyers from T3 or T4 had a hustlers spirit, and nothing to lose. However, if you goto a T3 or T4 with sticker, your plan might get screwed, because you are going to be owing serious cash. If you get a nice scholarship, you can spend your first year making sure your grades are ok, then spend the next two working at some low paying law firm hopefully picking up some tricks of the trade. Then, you will graduate without any debt, and have a jump start on experience to do your own thing.

that's my plan Jaestro minus the retaking phase. I think I can get some nice money from some school in Florida, if not Southern in BR will be a good choice for me. I do not at all plan on paying sticker at St. Thomas or any T4 school for that matter. The only exception is at Loyola New Orleans because of it being my Top choice and my hometown, so cost of living would virtually be free.

[cartercl]

You know I am talking bout St. Thomas - Florida right?

also you are correct, Johnny Cochran didn't have to deal with this economy but I am sure if he had listened to people advice then we would never know of him. I won't take over tremendous debt, nor am I money hungry so BigLaw will not be in my plans so I will be okay with T3/T4 because I have a plan and people could talk about "ITE" but I am sure my plans are unlike most applicants plans so we don't compare.

Okay man. So here's the deal. I'm an AA male and a LA resident as well. First of all, I think you should seriously take a look at the fact that simply having a plan is not sufficient for that plan being a success. There are too many unknown variables, ITE and in law school, for you to be so certain that your plan is foolproof. Just because your plan is unique doesn't mean it will work. That logic is crazy.

Secondly, why bother coming on here seeking advice if you're simply going to dismiss all the legitimate advice you're given? Southern has a horrible reputation in LA and is the running joke amongst all the attorneys I know. The bar passage rate there is so low that it significantly reduces the state average all on its own. Once upon a time a JD from there could open a few doors for you. But those were different days man. I honestly don't think you're looking at money from too many schools. If you do get any money it probably won't be that much, making the amount negligible when factoring in COL and the remainder of tuition over 3 years. I think you have a decent shot at Loyola - N.O., and LSU is a good reach for you.

I'm not a huge proponent of the whole "retake" thing, but I think it's warranted here. Retake man and provide yourself with a bit more security for your plan.

Edit: Grammar

[$1.99]

you are not johnny cochran /thread

[jaestro]

it just seems like a 2.7, 151, is the bare minimum that would get accepted if not WL at a TTTT, not sure your URM status will get you significant funds. I'm just saying, to enterprise is a courageous feat, but if you don't get significant money, plan on retaking, so you'll start your venture debt free.
Seriously, if just 5-10 more correct responses can save you 75K, its good business to go for it.

[Anastasia Dee Dualla]

You still should heavily consider retaking. Just 10 more correct responses could get you a full ride. I think a lot of successful lawyers from T3 or T4 had a hustlers spirit, and nothing to lose. However, if you goto a T3 or T4 with sticker, your plan might get screwed, because you are going to be owing serious cash. If you get a nice scholarship, you can spend your first year making sure your grades are ok, then spend the next two working at some low paying law firm hopefully picking up some tricks of the trade. Then, you will graduate without any debt, and have a jump start on experience to do your own thing.

that's my plan Jaestro minus the retaking phase. I think I can get some nice money from some school in Florida, if not Southern in BR will be a good choice for me. I do not at all plan on paying sticker at St. Thomas or any T4 school for that matter. The only exception is at Loyola New Orleans because of it being my Top choice and my hometown, so cost of living would virtually be free.

Kay, as a URM I want to be frank here but not unkind. You seem to be ignoring the superior advice of those people who are answering your question. First, you are probably not going to have the same life outcome as Jonny Cochran. No seriously...you prolly won't. We all like to think we are super special snowflakes and will get good grades, but that's not true. There will be other people there who are just as determined as you are and who have had terrible lives.

You NEED to retake. You will not get scholarship money. None at all. No chance. Retake. Also, URM is not a blanket eight points...its more discretionary.

If you graduate from one of those schools you can very well start your own business, but why not just do that with out the JD. And also, ITE small business's are failing left and right; why would your business be any different? You say you have a plan and you repeat that phrase...but that doesn't make it real. You need to set tangible goals. The first of which ought to be to retake.

Your GPA is unfortunate, no matter the reason and there is nothing you can do to improve it at this point. But you have a great opportunity to raise your LSAT score up and become a more acceptable candidate.

That being said...RETAKE.

Also, just saw you wanted to start a law firm...where are you planning on get work experience so that clients ACTUALLY want you to represent them?

[daburrel]

I am not dismissing all advice being offered. However, if everyone took all advice then where would America be today? Truth be told, most small business do fail so should no small business every take the risk?

I have said numerous times that my plans are to retake this summer if I don't get into any of the schools I like or a Florida school with money. However, I will not simply retake if I am accepted just because everyone around here suggest retake.

I take the advice given here with alot of respect but I can also tell that some is overrated. It seems like this forum is single handily trying to fix THIS ECONOMY especially the Law economy by scaring everyone away from attending, especially in the same cycle as them. Why not start business w/o JD? Because the business will rely heavily on practicing Law so it's pretty much essential.

To wrap it up, I do take advice but my question was about Reach schools I can add at the current state.....so technically not many have answered my questions. What My plans are and what many TLS'ers plans are can be very different. I know that having plans doesn't guarantee success and I never did guarantee it but I won't lack any confidence in pursing them. Like I said, should everyone in the world just take that advice unless they are 4.0/180's? If everyone took others advice FULLY there would be no America as we know it today because without risk, America doesn't exist.

[Cmart050]

I am not considering retaking unless[/b] I don't get into any schools I apply, Loyola = auto accept unless other school offer full or 75% tuition.

I have a major issue with this. Why would you not consider retaking a test that will have a MAJOR effect on the next 30-40 years of your working life.

There is nothing with taking risks. But you know what the most successful people do? Take risks that other people perceive as risks but aren't really so. Betting $10 on the lotto and betting a $1000 on the lotto are both risks. Sure, one might give you slightly better odds, but isn't one better than the other?!

I would appreciate what everyone here is trying to say. They are watching out for you and trying to keep you from overwhelming debt. Just covering your ears and saying you like to take risks as a badge of honor is not the best career move. Just saying.

[Anastasia Dee Dualla]

Trust me, most of the people on this comment line are not probably going to be competing with you. One, we all want different markets and Two, most of us are already in school.

But I wish you the best in your attending law school. I hope it works out for you. I don't have any other schools to recommend that I think you could get into this late in the cycle.

[daburrel]

Trust me, most of the people on this comment line are not probably going to be competing with you. One, we all want different markets and Two, most of us are already in school.

But I wish you the best in your attending law school. I hope it works out for you. I don't have any other schools to recommend that I think you could get into this late in the cycle.

I feel ya but at the same time, you guys haven't done or even have the intention of doing what I want or plan to do. I understand why alot of people caution others but at the same time, I respectfully pass on the cliche advice because that same advice would have cost many successful people of succeeding because they beat the odds.

[Anastasia Dee Dualla]

Trust me, most of the people on this comment line are not probably going to be competing with you. One, we all want different markets and Two, most of us are already in school.

But I wish you the best in your attending law school. I hope it works out for you. I don't have any other schools to recommend that I think you could get into this late in the cycle.

I feel ya but at the same time, you guys haven't done or even have the intention of doing what I want or plan to do. I understand why alot of people caution others but at the same time, I respectfully pass on the cliche advice because that same advice would have cost many successful people of succeeding because they beat the odds.

I can see why you feel that way. Again, I wish you the best of luck.

[Cmart050]

Trust me, most of the people on this comment line are not probably going to be competing with you. One, we all want different markets and Two, most of us are already in school.

But I wish you the best in your attending law school. I hope it works out for you. I don't have any other schools to recommend that I think you could get into this late in the cycle.

I feel ya but at the same time, you guys haven't done or even have the intention of doing what I want or plan to do. I understand why alot of people caution others but at the same time, I respectfully pass on the cliche advice because that same advice would have cost many successful people of succeeding because they beat the odds.

You've watched way too many movies, man. But best of luck. I'm sure you want it much more then the other students spending $120,00 for their education. And you had a chance to make a huge difference in debt, the quality of your education, and your opportunities for the next 30 years by doing just 10 points better on the test. Alas, law school will certainly be different, correct?

[cartercl]

Trust me, most of the people on this comment line are not probably going to be competing with you. One, we all want different markets and Two, most of us are already in school.

But I wish you the best in your attending law school. I hope it works out for you. I don't have any other schools to recommend that I think you could get into this late in the cycle.

I feel ya but at the same time, you guys haven't done or even have the intention of doing what I want or plan to do. I understand why alot of people caution others but at the same time, I respectfully pass on the cliche advice because that same advice would have cost many successful people of succeeding because they beat the odds.

Why is it that you think it is impossible for any one else to have the same "plan" as you? You haven't told anyone the specifics of your plan, but then again no one here has told you theirs. Your whole spill on America works another way too: there is not very much that hasn't been tried before. So why do you think it is so unreasonable that no one could be in a similar situation as yourself and thus giving you advice that you desperately need? Just asking...