Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

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Lisi
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Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Lisi » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:30 pm

I was hoping to do slightly better on my LSAT, but I'm overall okay with my score. I'm not taking it again because I want to apply this year. In general, I'm curious: if you look at the GPA and LSAT ranges for the various law schools, does that pretty much determine where you will get in? What if you are at the very bottom of the range? Is it still worth applying? (And I don't mean worth it like a shot in the dark is worth it.) In general, I guess I'm wondering where people see their chances of admittance in relation to the GPA and LSAT ranges. Do you assume if you're at the top of the range, you'll get in? If you're at the bottom do you think you're still pretty sure of getting in?

With my LSAT score (170) and my recalculated GPA (3.78) (recalculated through LSAC), I'm technically in the 25-75% range of all of the law schools. (According to this: http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index. ... sc/LSATLow) My undergrad was University of Chicago (Econ and Romance Languages). I also have a PhD from Columbia (Spanish Lit). I'd rather apply to fewer schools (if possible). I wasn't planning on applying to Yale or Stanford. The two places I most want to go to are Chicago and Harvard - though I'm definitely going to apply to more schools than two.
Last edited by Lisi on Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Adjudicator
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Adjudicator » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:36 pm

You seem pretty new to this so hopefully people won't be too mean. Here's how it works, basically. Schools list their 25th percentile scores, their median scores, and their 75th percentile scores. If you're at or below both 25th percentile marks, your chances are slim. If you are at or above both 75th percentile marks, you can pretty much count on it, barring some other unusual factor. If you're exactly at the medians, your chances are all right, but not certain.

If you're near the 25th in one area and near the 75th or above in the other, you are a splitter or reverse-splitter and it is typically very hard to predict how the school will value you.

Also keep in mind that in the past couple cycles, the sheer volume of applications has risen and overall things are quite competitive right now. Fewer spots to go around.
Last edited by Adjudicator on Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bmore
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby bmore » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:38 pm

Expand your horizons. You will get fee waivers, even if you have to ask for them.

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Ragged
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Ragged » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:40 pm

Adjudicator wrote:You seem pretty new to this so hopefully people won't be too mean. Here's how it works, basically. Schools list their 25th percentile scores, their median scores, and their 75th percentile scores. If you're at or below both 25th percentile marks, your chances are slim. If you are at or above both 75th percentile marks, you can pretty much count on it, barring some other unusual factor. If you're exactly at the medians, your chances are all right, but not certain.

If you're near the 25th in one area and near the 75th or above in the other, you are a splitter or reverse-splitter and it is typically very hard to predict.


That's it in a nutshell.

In LS admissions median is what really counts, not so much the range.

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Lisi
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Lisi » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:42 pm

Thanks for the quick response! Do you know where I can find the median LSAT scores?

09042014
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:42 pm

Lisi wrote:I was hoping to do slightly better on my LSAT, but I'm overall okay with my score. I'm not taking it again because I want to apply this year. In general, I'm curious: if you look at the GPA and LSAT ranges for the various law schools, does that pretty much determine where you will get in? What if you are at the very bottom of the range? Is it still worth applying? (And I don't mean worth it like a shot in the dark is worth it.) In general, I guess I'm wondering where people see their chances of admittance in relation to the GPA and LSAT ranges. Do you assume if you're at the top of the range, you'll get in? If you're at the bottom do you think you're still pretty sure of getting in?

With my LSAT score (170) and my recalculated GPA (3.78) (recalculated through LSAC), I'm technically in the 25-75% range of all of the law schools. (According to this: http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index. ... sc/LSATLow) My undergrad was University of Chicago (Econ and Romance Languages). I also have a PhD from Columbia (Spanish Lit). I'd rather apply to fewer schools (if possible). I wasn't planning on applying to Yale or Stanford. The two places I most want to go to are Chicago and Harvard - though I'm definitely going to apply to more schools than two.


Generally you have to be at the median of either the LSAT or the GPA. So if you are near the 25% of each score you have no chance.

If you are over both medians you are almost auto admit.

Harvard probably isn't going to happen for you. Chicago you will be very border line. But being an alum with a PhD from Columbia might push you over. Still though you probably won't get in.

You'll have a lot of luck at the lower t14. Might even get scholarship money.

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Shooter
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Shooter » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:45 pm

Yeah, it's not an exact science (for example, I was recently waitlisted at a school where my #'s exceeded both 75ths), but what the above posters said is credited in the majority of instances. With your academic background, you are going to have no problem getting sweet money at awesome schools! Enjoy it!

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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Ragged » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:48 pm

Shooter wrote:Yeah, it's not an exact science (for example, I was recently waitlisted at a school where my #'s exceeded both 75ths), but what the above posters said is credited in the majority of instances. With your academic background, you are going to have no problem getting sweet money at awesome schools! Enjoy it!


Don't you think that's YP?

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Lisi
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Lisi » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:49 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Harvard probably isn't going to happen for you. Chicago you will be very border line. But being an alum with a PhD from Columbia might push you over. Still though you probably won't get in.


Chicago's website says the median GPA is a 3.78 (exactly my GPA) and the median LSAT is a 171 (1 point above my score). How does that mean that I probably won't get in? Aren't half the people they admit below these two markers?
Last edited by Lisi on Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Shooter
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Shooter » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:50 pm

Ragged wrote:
Shooter wrote:Yeah, it's not an exact science (for example, I was recently waitlisted at a school where my #'s exceeded both 75ths), but what the above posters said is credited in the majority of instances. With your academic background, you are going to have no problem getting sweet money at awesome schools! Enjoy it!


Don't you think that's YP?


I don't think so (outside of my numbers, my application is pretty mediocre). It was my top choice school though so I'm still super bitter about it. Lol!

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Ragged
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Ragged » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:52 pm

Shooter wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Shooter wrote:Yeah, it's not an exact science (for example, I was recently waitlisted at a school where my #'s exceeded both 75ths), but what the above posters said is credited in the majority of instances. With your academic background, you are going to have no problem getting sweet money at awesome schools! Enjoy it!


Don't you think that's YP?


I don't think so (outside of my numbers, my application is pretty mediocre). It was my top choice school though so I'm still super bitter about it. Lol!


Hmm did you write Why X essay for it?

You have CCN (HYS?) numbers so that's the reason I think.

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Shooter
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Shooter » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:53 pm

Lisi wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Harvard probably isn't going to happen for you. Chicago you will be very border line. But being an alum with a PhD from Columbia might push you over. Still though you probably won't get in.


Chicago's websites says the median GPA is a 3.78 and the median LSAT is a 171 (1 point above my score). How does that mean that I probably won't get in? Aren't half the people they admit below these two markers?


Not exactly. If you think about it, most applicants are above one and below one - not above both and below both. Still, I agree with you overall. I'd say you have a good shot at Chicago (I mean, the PhD from Columbia DOES count for something).

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Shooter
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Shooter » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:56 pm

Ragged wrote:
Shooter wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Shooter wrote:Yeah, it's not an exact science (for example, I was recently waitlisted at a school where my #'s exceeded both 75ths), but what the above posters said is credited in the majority of instances. With your academic background, you are going to have no problem getting sweet money at awesome schools! Enjoy it!


Don't you think that's YP?


I don't think so (outside of my numbers, my application is pretty mediocre). It was my top choice school though so I'm still super bitter about it. Lol!


Hmm did you write Why X essay for it?

You have CCN (HYS?) numbers so that's the reason I think.


Oh yeah, and it was pretty thoughtful too (I did a lot of research about the school and made it very personal). Oh well, life goes on. I think even being considered by some of these schools is fantastic in and of itself. It definitely stung though, I'll admit that.

(sorry to derail your thread OP)

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Lisi
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Lisi » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:59 pm

This has been helpful. I think I won't be applying to Harvard. It doesn't seem worth it with my stats.

Does anyone have a link to a website with the LSAT median scores listed for each school? I can only find ranges listed on info sites.

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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:00 am

Lisi wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Harvard probably isn't going to happen for you. Chicago you will be very border line. But being an alum with a PhD from Columbia might push you over. Still though you probably won't get in.


Chicago's website says the median GPA is a 3.78 (exactly my GPA) and the median LSAT is a 171 (1 point above my score). How does that mean that I probably won't get in? Aren't half the people they admit below these two markers?


Half the people are 171 or above and half the people are above 3.78 but half the people aren't above 3.78 and at 171+.

Generally those who have 171 or better have a GPA of 3.78 or lower, and people with above 3.78 have an LSAT below 171.

The school looks like this:
3.6/175 3.7/171 3.78/171 3.8/170 4.0/169

Rather than

3.7/169 3.75/170 3.78/171 3.85/171 4.0/173
Last edited by 09042014 on Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ragged
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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Ragged » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:00 am

Lisi wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Harvard probably isn't going to happen for you. Chicago you will be very border line. But being an alum with a PhD from Columbia might push you over. Still though you probably won't get in.


Chicago's website says the median GPA is a 3.78 (exactly my GPA) and the median LSAT is a 171 (1 point above my score). How does that mean that I probably won't get in? Aren't half the people they admit below these two markers?


Could be, or it could be that only 25% of them are, plus what shooter said.

You see those schools care very much about keeping their medians as high as possible and your below median LSAT would hurt them. It seems that your GPA is at median so you do have a shot given a good overall application. But chances don't look so good. Of course, if you ED you will have a much better shot, still not a lock though.

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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby Ragged » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:02 am

Shooter wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Shooter wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Don't you think that's YP?


I don't think so (outside of my numbers, my application is pretty mediocre). It was my top choice school though so I'm still super bitter about it. Lol!


Hmm did you write Why X essay for it?

You have CCN (HYS?) numbers so that's the reason I think.


Oh yeah, and it was pretty thoughtful too (I did a lot of research about the school and made it very personal). Oh well, life goes on. I think even being considered by some of these schools is fantastic in and of itself. It definitely stung though, I'll admit that.

(sorry to derail your thread OP)


Well damn... You'll be forced to go to T6 instead lol

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Re: Any school possible if you're in their GPA and LSAT ranges?

Postby ScarryBakhtin » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:03 am

Lisi wrote:Chicago's website says the median GPA is a 3.78 (exactly my GPA) and the median LSAT is a 171 (1 point above my score). How does that mean that I probably won't get in? Aren't half the people they admit below these two markers?


Lisi, great question, I was initially thinking along the same lines. But you also need to bear in mind, in addition to the point made by other posters regarding splitters, that there are a significant amount of people accepted for reasons other than their scores: Are you an URM, if so, then as long as you are within the 25-75 percent range you could have a decent shot. The same could be said if you had extenuating circumstances in your life.

I do think that your PhD will matter. It's difficult to say how much, though.




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