3.98 @ Top Ivy, 165/172, for SLS/YLS/HLS?

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Casey2889
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3.98 @ Top Ivy, 165/172, for SLS/YLS/HLS?

Postby Casey2889 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:03 pm

Super softs (great recs, including a third targeted at SLS/finalist for Rhodes and Marshall Scholarships competitions/honors thesis/academic publications/student govt/intl. conference delegate/summer fellowships)...Only blemish was that 165 on October LSAT when I was sick but foolishly arrogant enough to take the test.....Will that kill me at these schools even if I send an addendum?

Thanks!
Last edited by Casey2889 on Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dissonance1848
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby dissonance1848 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:38 pm

No, they will only look at the 172.

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bk1
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby bk1 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:41 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:No, they will only look at the 172.


I disagree. On the whole HYS are more likely to look at the score and consider it at least even if they do not strictly average.

You should send the addendum considering you have a legitimate reason, but it is really hard to tell. Best to send it in and just see what happens.

Casey2889
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby Casey2889 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:14 am

I called some admit offices, and they also said to send an addendum. I think that HLS will give me less credit than SLS and YLS. A 172 fits my profile, so I'm gonna hope for a genuinely "holistic" review.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:15 am

HLS, at least, will "consider" it...but if your other things are strong and they want to admit you, then it prob wont hold you back...know what i mean? lol

hjag
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby hjag » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:50 am

You are right. YLS and SLS will definitely be more willing to overlook that first LSAT. HLS is big on numbers...
But YLS and SLS are hard to predict, I feel. Just from researching LSN and TLS, I feel that YLS prefers nontraditional applicants and SLS really likes to see post-ugrad word experience. Def. apply to all though, and congrats on those kickass #s.

Casey2889
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby Casey2889 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:01 pm

just made some calls, told them specifically about my score increase (7 points). was told the following:

YLS: "We will focus on the higher score with that increase."
SLS: "We look at both scores. Whether the 2nd score was significantly different from the 1st is a consideration, but we'll look at both."
HLS: "We will consider both scores and their average."
CLS: "If score increases by 6 points or more, we look more favorably on the higher score. We don't average, but look at the scores individually."

stanford def less encouraging sounding than i had expected, but i suppose they just said what we knew already.

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Patriot1208
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:05 pm

I think you stand a good chance at HS (no one stands a good chance at Yale, not without much better softs than you have), but I wouldn't be surprised if you were shut out of HYS either. But Columbia, probably with money, should be a lock.

09042014
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:06 pm

HLS and CLS are fucking lying. Their LSN graphs prove it.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:58 pm

Desert Fox wrote:HLS and CLS are fucking lying. Their LSN graphs prove it.


iunno about CLS, but how is HLS lying about 'considering' both scores and their avg? they didnt say they will take the avg and only use that lol

i honestly believe they will take all scores into account, but wont ding you simply because you had a lower first score...unless they were looking for a reason to ding you

Casey2889
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby Casey2889 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:34 pm

desertfox, im curious, in what way do you suspect HLS and CLS to be lying? do you think they really just average?

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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby bdubs » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:38 pm

Casey2889 wrote:Super softs (recs/finalist in major scholarship competitions/honors thesis/publications)...Only blemish was a 165 on October LSAT when I was sick but foolishly arrogant enough to take the test.....Will that kill me at these schools even if I send an addendum?

Thanks!


Do you go to H? If so that retake will probably matter less than if you went to Y or P.

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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby justadude55 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Casey2889 wrote:I called some admit offices, and they also said to send an addendum. I think that HLS will give me less credit than SLS and YLS. A 172 fits my profile, so I'm gonna hope for a genuinely "holistic" review.

In my experience, they are very quick to tell you to submit an addendum, but I think a doctor's note or something that substantiates you were ill might be helpful. It might be a great way to show you can perform significantly better than the national average while deeply ill, albeit not better than the HLS. 7 points is a substantial difference though.

Casey2889
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby Casey2889 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:38 pm

nope not H...does that actually matter?

bdubs
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy/172 (for SLS/YLS/HLS?)

Postby bdubs » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:39 pm

Casey2889 wrote:nope not H...does that actually matter?


According to people who go to H and have access to applicant matrices for the school they are more lenient in admissions for H undergrads.

Casey2889
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy, 165/172, for SLS/YLS/HLS?

Postby Casey2889 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:45 pm

wow, lame... its not even the best education in the ivies IMO, but hey im biased.

TheTallOne0602
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy, 165/172, for SLS/YLS/HLS?

Postby TheTallOne0602 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:00 pm

Casey2889 wrote:Super softs (great recs, including a third targeted at SLS/finalist for Rhodes and Marshall Scholarships competitions/honors thesis/academic publications/student govt/intl. conference delegate/summer fellowships)...Only blemish was that 165 on October LSAT when I was sick but foolishly arrogant enough to take the test.....Will that kill me at these schools even if I send an addendum?

Thanks!


Yale literally gets to pick whomever they desire, so seeing as you are below their LSAT median even with your second score, I would say you have little to no shot there.

Harvard is all about the numbers (just by virtue of needing spectacular numbers given how many students they admit) and you are, once again, below median even with your second score, so I am not sure that is likely, either.

Stanford seems like your best shot, but your softs are not as super as you think. I am not like most TLSers (cure cancer or go home) but merely being a finalist is not much to brag about, most people have great letters, most people were in student government or had some leadership position, etc.

With that being said, I have no idea what Stanford likes, so they might love you.

And this entire post operates with the caveat that I have no idea how any of these schools look at Ivy Leaguers. Maybe that puts you over the top.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy, 165/172, for SLS/YLS/HLS?

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:15 pm

TheTallOne0602 wrote:
Casey2889 wrote:Super softs (great recs, including a third targeted at SLS/finalist for Rhodes and Marshall Scholarships competitions/honors thesis/academic publications/student govt/intl. conference delegate/summer fellowships)...Only blemish was that 165 on October LSAT when I was sick but foolishly arrogant enough to take the test.....Will that kill me at these schools even if I send an addendum?

Thanks!


Yale literally gets to pick whomever they desire, so seeing as you are below their LSAT median even with your second score, I would say you have little to no shot there.

Harvard is all about the numbers (just by virtue of needing spectacular numbers given how many students they admit) and you are, once again, below median even with your second score, so I am not sure that is likely, either.

Stanford seems like your best shot, but your softs are not as super as you think. I am not like most TLSers (cure cancer or go home) but merely being a finalist is not much to brag about, most people have great letters, most people were in student government or had some leadership position, etc.

With that being said, I have no idea what Stanford likes, so they might love you.

And this entire post operates with the caveat that I have no idea how any of these schools look at Ivy Leaguers. Maybe that puts you over the top.


this is a bit more pessimistic than i would be

YLS, who knows! SLS? kinda a black box as well, at least your GPA is high

HLS i think you have a good shot at...above 75 GPA and slightly below median LSAT...sure you had a 165, but your softs, while maybe not 'super' certainly are still very good...write a strong PS and have a good overall package and i can see HLS letting you in, or at least in off the WL

Casey2889
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy, 165/172, for SLS/YLS/HLS?

Postby Casey2889 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:36 pm

Appreciate the blunt honesty.

Just FYI, being a finalist means I was one of ~120 interviewed for ~30 scholarships. Before that, I had to be nominated by my university, which could only submit 5 students from the senior class for consideration. Something like 2500-3500 people are nominated from universities across America each year, and only ~120 get interviewed. After they told me I wasn't a winner this year, they actually said--and my adviser confirmed this---that I ought to put the fact that I was even a finalist on a resume for law school. You're right that being a finalist won't count for much after law school, but given that this all just happened in October/November, being a finalist supplies admissions committees with information about how I fared in arguably the most competitive academic competitions available for graduating seniors, and also insight into how my own university identifies me and what my academic/intellectual commitment and curiosity is.

Also, I think being 1 point below Yale's median (172 vs. 173) won't give me "little or no shot" there since they said they consider the highest LSAT---I actually think I might be more competitive there than at HLS, since, as you point out, HLS is very numbers based and my LSAT will likely be weighed down to a 169-170. That said, no one is very competitive at YLS with their faculty review.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy, 165/172, for SLS/YLS/HLS?

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:51 pm

Casey2889 wrote:Also, I think being 1 point below Yale's median (172 vs. 173) won't give me "little or no shot" there since they said they consider the highest LSAT---I actually think I might be more competitive there than at HLS, since, as you point out, HLS is very numbers based and my LSAT will likely be weighed down to a 169-170. That said, no one is very competitive at YLS with their faculty review.


i dont think that is true at all. i mean, no one REALLY knows...but YLS has a MUCH smaller class size than HLS. finding ppl w/ a 3.98/172 at HLS is easy. finding ppl w/ a 3.98/172 at YLS is harder...and when you do find them, they probably have amazing softs (yours are good, iunno about 'amazing')

of course you have a shot that warrants an app, just saying, chances at HLS are prob a LOT better than YLS. ppl are taking the 'take both scores into consideration' thing way out of proportion. plenty of ppl in HLS who had 2 scores, the avg of which was below median or even the 25% in some cases, but they were not treated as such.

TheTallOne0602
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy, 165/172, for SLS/YLS/HLS?

Postby TheTallOne0602 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:47 pm

Casey2889 wrote:Appreciate the blunt honesty.

Just FYI, being a finalist means I was one of ~120 interviewed for ~30 scholarships. Before that, I had to be nominated by my university, which could only submit 5 students from the senior class for consideration. Something like 2500-3500 people are nominated from universities across America each year, and only ~120 get interviewed. After they told me I wasn't a winner this year, they actually said--and my adviser confirmed this---that I ought to put the fact that I was even a finalist on a resume for law school. You're right that being a finalist won't count for much after law school, but given that this all just happened in October/November, being a finalist supplies admissions committees with information about how I fared in arguably the most competitive academic competitions available for graduating seniors, and also insight into how my own university identifies me and what my academic/intellectual commitment and curiosity is.

Also, I think being 1 point below Yale's median (172 vs. 173) won't give me "little or no shot" there since they said they consider the highest LSAT---I actually think I might be more competitive there than at HLS, since, as you point out, HLS is very numbers based and my LSAT will likely be weighed down to a 169-170. That said, no one is very competitive at YLS with their faculty review.


I understand how the Rhodes works. I really wish being a finalist for it meant something, but I doubt in the end it will.

I try to be pessimistic with these things, since it is better to be pleasantly surprised than to plan for something one doesn't get.

With that being said, I like to remind people on here that we don't REALLY know what the adcomms use to judge you, so by all means, include it and hope for the best.

My basic point is: Harvard is very numbers based. Being below LSAT median AND having had to retake the LSAT makes me think that you have a less than 50/50 shot at that, but maybe they like Ivy leaguers enough to take you anyway. Yale, on the other hand, which is more holistic, not only requires the great numbers but gets to pick WHOMEVER they want. Might they ignore the 165? Maybe. But why would they when someone else with basically your stats didn't have to retake?

None of this should discourage you from applying. Craft a great application and really go for it. My main point was kind of that Stanford seems like the best bet. You have a great GPA, are at their 75th with your second LSAT, and you have good soft factors. Write your PS well and it seems like you should have a great shot there.

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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy, 165/172, for SLS/YLS/HLS?

Postby TheTallOne0602 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 pm

Although, I just looked at some of the numbers for Harvard, and saw a few 4.0/169s.

You can definitely get in there. Good luck, all around, anyway.

Casey2889
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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy, 165/172, for SLS/YLS/HLS?

Postby Casey2889 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:33 am

yeah, i know a girl who had a 3.9, 162/172 from a big public university and got into HLS, so i can't believe they average all the time.

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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy, 165/172, for SLS/YLS/HLS?

Postby hjag » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:05 am

Casey2889 wrote:yeah, i know a girl who had a 3.9, 162/172 from a big public university and got into HLS, so i can't believe they average all the time.


Was she a URM? If so, that would be unsurprising.

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Re: 3.98 @ Top Ivy, 165/172, for SLS/YLS/HLS?

Postby DoubleChecks » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:21 am

hjag wrote:
Casey2889 wrote:yeah, i know a girl who had a 3.9, 162/172 from a big public university and got into HLS, so i can't believe they average all the time.


Was she a URM? If so, that would be unsurprising.


its unsurprising even if she were not a URM lol

HLS often accepts ppl who have a significantly higher retake almost as if they only had 1 score. to 'consider' both is quite a vague term.

3.9/172s are not that rare at HLS (it is a 550 class size)




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