Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

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DoctorSurf
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Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby DoctorSurf » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:35 am

Well as the title pretty much acts as the spoiler, I am graduating medical school in May and plan to attend, and have decided that law is the route I want to take my medical degree. I purchased an LSAT book about 2 weeks ago and have done 3 or 4 tests ranging from 163-167. I scheduled the LSAT for february of this 2011 just to see if I can maintain that score while still working and not studying. Where I am sitting is in between going right back into school which i pretty much have never had a break from, graduating med school at 25 or do my one year internship in July, get my DEA and national certification to be a fully practicing physician and then start law school. I don't want to sound cocky by any means but I only plan on applying to the top 10 programs. Say I bomb the test February and get a 155, without studying mind you, are having a medical degree with an 84 average and passing of all three steps of my boards be enough or will I still need to study and go the other route. I really don't like wasting time, but I don't know if I should even take this February test thinking that it will look better with my one year internship complete. I would love to moonlight in the student clinic with any extra time we may have.

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OGR3
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby OGR3 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:39 am

What do you want to do with a law degree?

DoctorSurf
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby DoctorSurf » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:51 am

Either work as a professional witness, medical malpractice, or get a joint MBA and try to work for one of the big pharmaceutical companies. Basically what I don't want to do is "So what brings you into the office today" 25x in a row. Although I do want to start a nonprofit organization providing free healthcare in under-served countries. There is already a company called surfaid international that does something like this in the Mentawais islands. I would like to have clinics in the south pacific or central/south america or both if I can get the proper funding.

Nonok
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby Nonok » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:55 am

What's your undergraduate GPA?

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OGR3
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby OGR3 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:58 am

1. You'd most likely hate law and hate law school.
2. You can pretty much do all of that without a law degree.
3. MD + MBA + JD = Loves school, hates work.

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gbpackerbacker
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby gbpackerbacker » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:00 am

Go through the Powerscore LRB and LGB and you'll be fine, especially if you're scoring around 165 after a few tests. Depending on your UG GPA, you'll need somewhere around 168+, but probably more around 170, to get into a top ten. Are you an URM? Finally, your medical school degree will help, but it probably won't be worth more than 1 or 2 lsat points. Also, try to tailor your apps around career interests as md/jd.

Nonok
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby Nonok » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:00 am

OGR3 wrote:3. MD + MBA + JD = Loves school, hates work.

That's what I thought

DoctorSurf
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby DoctorSurf » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:16 am

Undergrad GPA was 3.5 in biology. Dual Admission 3+4 program with a large list of extracurriculars. Again I've yet to study anything from the review book, but I don't know exactly what it is going to teach me based on the questions i've done so far. Realistically I feel like I should be able to get in the mid 170s. Should I do an online review class, a book like Princeton Review, or a live Class? I've actually always really enjoyed law but was just steered into medicine and I always planned that if i went to medical school where you have to do a 3 year specialty regardless, why not goto law school and make that my specialty. A professional witness with a JD makes much more than a professional witness without a JD.

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kkklick
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby kkklick » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:25 am

OP that's great that you want to go to law school on top of medical school. If you're already PTing 163+ after only a few tests you will be fine. No reason you can't score around 170 come February, good luck.

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Shooter
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby Shooter » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:25 am

With a 3.5 GPA, you really, really need a 170 LSAT to get into a top 10 program.

1) Where is your med degree from? (if it is very prestigious, it might help)
2) How are you planning to pay for all of this?

Nonok
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby Nonok » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:25 am

DoctorSurf wrote:Undergrad GPA was 3.5 in biology. Dual Admission 3+4 program with a large list of extracurriculars. Again I've yet to study anything from the review book, but I don't know exactly what it is going to teach me based on the questions i've done so far. Realistically I feel like I should be able to get in the mid 170s. Should I do an online review class, a book like Princeton Review, or a live Class? I've actually always really enjoyed law but was just steered into medicine and I always planned that if i went to medical school where you have to do a 3 year specialty regardless, why not goto law school and make that my specialty. A professional witness with a JD makes much more than a professional witness without a JD.

You're going to need a 169/170 or have a good change at the T10. Check out the LSAT prep forum here. You probably shouldn't take a class. They are not necessary for most applicants and you should be able to break 170 with self-study.

DoctorSurf
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby DoctorSurf » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:27 am

unfortunately not a URM unless Jew counts? :lol: My cousins wife is 50% navaho and they have two kids so theoretically I am a second cousin to a URM if that counts

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kkklick
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby kkklick » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:28 am

DoctorSurf wrote:unfortunately not a URM unless Jew counts? :lol: My cousins wife is 50% navaho and they have two kids so theoretically I am a second cousin to a URM if that counts

lol I don't think that counts.

DoctorSurf
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby DoctorSurf » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:40 am

Shooter wrote:With a 3.5 GPA, you really, really need a 170 LSAT to get into a top 10 program.

1) Where is your med degree from? (if it is very prestigious, it might help)
2) How are you planning to pay for all of this?


The GPA thing to me is horse manure. I didn't get anything but A's in my non-science classes, had a minor in business and one class away from a minor in history. Does being in the honors program help?

1) normal American medical school, not prestigious
2) fortunate to be an only child with well off parents i guess :lol:
3) This is actually a serious question- what kind of donation helps edge your foot in the door, $10,000, $50,000, $100,000 $250,000+?

Here are my extra curriculars:
Secretary- Beta Theta Pi Fraternity
BBB biological honors society
National Honors Society
Honor's Student Government Association- secretary
Professional Wakeboarder
Surf Club Member

Gatorbull84
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby Gatorbull84 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:32 am

I know everyone is going to disagree with me on this because Top Law School Forums is just about "retaking" the LSAT. But if you have a MD and you are applying to law school I am pretty sure that will count for more than just a few LSAT points. Especially if you apply to more "holistic" schools. Last year according to this site Yale took someone with a 159. Medical school is a thousand times harder than law school and it opens up a lot of doors, so some of the top schools will probably look highly on that.

Also, all US MD schools are prestigious. As long as you get into a US school you are set

I have a engineering degree and a masters in a medical science and I have been accepted to schools that Law school predictor and most people on this forum claimed I would have no chance. And with a decent amount of money. I really think that certain schools actually do evaluate the applicant.


You are pretty rare, not a lot of people with a MD actually apply to law school

DoctorSurf
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby DoctorSurf » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:47 am

Thanks Gatorbull,
I like where your head is at :lol:. But I was thinking the same thing. People really don't understand what it takes to make it in medical school or law school until they have been there themselves. My best way to tell someone to imagine it is take your course load of your hardest courses EVER, say 15 credits and double it and that is what it is going to be like. Every semester, it never lightens up. I sent an email to Harvard admissions to see what their true take is on it and whether or not i need to wait to take the LSAT or just wing it. We will see what they say.

run26.2
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby run26.2 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:04 pm

Gatorbull84 wrote:I know everyone is going to disagree with me on this because Top Law School Forums is just about "retaking" the LSAT. But if you have a MD and you are applying to law school I am pretty sure that will count for more than just a few LSAT points. Especially if you apply to more "holistic" schools. Last year according to this site Yale took someone with a 159. Medical school is a thousand times harder than law school and it opens up a lot of doors, so some of the top schools will probably look highly on that.

Also, all US MD schools are prestigious. As long as you get into a US school you are set

I have a engineering degree and a masters in a medical science and I have been accepted to schools that Law school predictor and most people on this forum claimed I would have no chance. And with a decent amount of money. I really think that certain schools actually do evaluate the applicant.


You are pretty rare, not a lot of people with a MD actually apply to law school

There is some truth to this post, but it is not entirely correct. The bottom line is that all schools use your UGPA and LSAT as metrics and they do not waiver all that much, though they do for applicants that add a bit of diversity to the class.

Your UGPA, unfortunately, is below the 25th percentile at every T10 program. This is really working against you. You are going to need to be near the 75th percentile on your LSAT to have a reasonable chance at acceptance.

Two of your softs are fairly unique. If I had to guess, your MD is probably worth about 1 LSAT point. If you actually worked as a Dr, that would probably be worth 2 or perhaps more depending on whether you had done significant research or had significant publications. The professional wakeboarder soft is interesting. The problem you have there is that you are going to have to tie law, medicine, and wakeboarding together in a personal statement that does not scream that you are all over the map in your pursuits. The more compelling your PS and any optional statements, the better chance you'll have.

Your other softs are pretty common.

In sum, I'd say if you were to score 169 you would have a slight chance with an EARLY ED app to M/V/P. 170 would give you a pretty decent shot at those schools, with your odds increasing with your LSAT. A 172 or 173 would start to bring Chicago and NYU into the picture.

krad
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby krad » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:08 pm

run26.2 wrote: The bottom line is that all schools use your UGPA and LSAT as metrics and they do not waiver all that much, though they do for applicants that add a bit of diversity to the class.


TITCR. You're going to need to do well on the LSAT regardless of the Dr/wake softs.

FWIW, I've got some very interesting softs and w/e, but my UGPA (from taking pre-eng calc/phys/chem etc.) is going to shut me out at a lot of schools regardless. I still applied to reaches, but I agree with run26.2's entire post.

...and you should never 'wing' the LSAT! Study the PS Bibles as already suggested and check out http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/

EDIT: and good luck!!

Renzo
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby Renzo » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:13 pm

FLAAAAAAAAME!



Sorry, but it needs to be said.

mcdad
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby mcdad » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:15 pm

Planning to be a professional witness??
To spend your life reviewing other doctor's work in patient charts for hours?? (Always a bridesmaid never a bride)
To put yourself up as an "expert" without ever doing a residency or a fellowship??

In our adversarial system there are two attorneys at trial. One of them wants to make you look like a genius, but the other wants to make you out to be an idiot. Don't make it easy for him. The attorney with the stronger argument will have the witness with the thickest CV. You will be condemning yourself to giving specious testimony for which ever attorney will pay you.

mcdad
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby mcdad » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:16 pm

I hope Renzo's right.

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Lwoods
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby Lwoods » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:18 pm

krad wrote:
run26.2 wrote: The bottom line is that all schools use your UGPA and LSAT as metrics and they do not waiver all that much, though they do for applicants that add a bit of diversity to the class.


TITCR. You're going to need to do well on the LSAT regardless of the Dr/wake softs.

FWIW, I've got some very interesting softs and w/e, but my UGPA (from taking pre-eng calc/phys/chem etc.) is going to shut me out at a lot of schools regardless. I still applied to reaches, but I agree with run26.2's entire post.

...and you should never 'wing' the LSAT! Study the PS Bibles as already suggested and check out http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/

EDIT: and good luck!!


Definitely don't wing the LSAT! Even if you do well, it more than likely won't be up to your potential.

(Also, the non-URM applicant who got into Yale with a 158 LSAT has major connections: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Fingerscrossed27/jd)

Gatorbull84
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby Gatorbull84 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:21 pm

DoctorSurf wrote:Thanks Gatorbull,
I like where your head is at :lol:. But I was thinking the same thing. People really don't understand what it takes to make it in medical school or law school until they have been there themselves. My best way to tell someone to imagine it is take your course load of your hardest courses EVER, say 15 credits and double it and that is what it is going to be like. Every semester, it never lightens up. I sent an email to Harvard admissions to see what their true take is on it and whether or not i need to wait to take the LSAT or just wing it. We will see what they say.



I was on the fence about medical school and could only get into DO or Caribbean so I have a little experience in the area. Also, I have a friend with a 162, 3.2 undergrad gpa but he just finished a phd in a medical science(which is a few steps below MD) and he has been accepted to a few top 25 schools. Granted he is a URM but still.

Medical school is a bitch

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Grizz
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:43 pm

mcdad wrote:Planning to be a professional witness??
To spend your life reviewing other doctor's work in patient charts for hours?? (Always a bridesmaid never a bride)
To put yourself up as an "expert" without ever doing a residency or a fellowship??

In our adversarial system there are two attorneys at trial. One of them wants to make you look like a genius, but the other wants to make you out to be an idiot. Don't make it easy for him. The attorney with the stronger argument will have the witness with the thickest CV. You will be condemning yourself to giving specious testimony for which ever attorney will pay you.


I came to this thread to post something similar.

OP, if you think you can be an expert witness without ever having practiced medicine, you're a fool. No one will hire you, and you are not an expert in anything.

Don't get a JD if you don't want to be a lawyer.

You also don't need a law degree to start a charity. You need to work for charities and get involved in the industry to show them you're not just some over-educated buffoon.

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masochist
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Re: Graduating from Medical School in May, LSAT=165ish

Postby masochist » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:54 pm

mcdad wrote:Planning to be a professional witness??
To spend your life reviewing other doctor's work in patient charts for hours?? (Always a bridesmaid never a bride)
To put yourself up as an "expert" without ever doing a residency or a fellowship??

In our adversarial system there are two attorneys at trial. One of them wants to make you look like a genius, but the other wants to make you out to be an idiot. Don't make it easy for him. The attorney with the stronger argument will have the witness with the thickest CV. You will be condemning yourself to giving specious testimony for which ever attorney will pay you.


This is absolutely correct. Physician + JD = interesting background for a med mal lawyer. MD + JD = person who regrets going to med school (at best) or person who couldn't match for a residency (at worst). I also doubt it will help that much with admissions. You are sort of quitting in the middle of a course of study. In the t14 you'll be competing against a sizable number of people with terminal degrees and work experience.

If you do not complete a residency before applying to law school, you are basically throwing away your MD. I am not saying you shouldn't do it. Maybe you hate medicine, maybe you love law, there could be a ton a reasons why this could be reasonable. Unfortunately, the plan you've outlined isn't.




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