3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

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Alek
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Alek » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:48 pm

LSpleaseee wrote:
Alek wrote:I'm guessing there aren't any outrageous choices in the schools I listed in the OP?

rad law wrote:Get a job as a paralegal to see if you would enjoy legal work. Plus you make money.

Well one of my parents is currently a paralegal, and I know it would be difficult to find employment given her recent job search. I would also guess I'd need a little more education to even qualify, but perhaps not a prohibitive amount.

Immediate employment is a fair idea.

Finding work during/after law school is a breeze though, no worries.

Could you please explain the point you are making? Specifically, which of my posts overlooked the bad job market, what part of the highlighted post is worth revisiting? I am unsure how paralegal work and a postponing of law school relates exactly to my job search during school and after. Also, what are the parallels between my parent's job search and my own. If you could clarify, that would be great.

If you think there is a contradiction in my perspectives of different jobs markets, I would appreciate you again outlining the parallels between my mother's qualifications and work opportunities, and my own.

Thank you for your advice and generous concern, I am grateful.

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Pleasye
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Pleasye » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:06 pm

Alek wrote:Could you please explain the point you are making? Specifically, which of my posts overlooked the bad job market, what part of the highlighted post is worth revisiting? I am not sure how paralegal work and a postponing of law school relates exactly to my job search during school and after. If you could clarify, that would be great.

Thank you for your advice and generous concern, I am grateful.

Okay I'll stop being a sarcastic ass. The point I'm making is that law school is not a walk in the park and if you don't think that you even want to be a LAWYER then you shouldn't go. You're going to be putting yourself through a tremendous amount of work and debt for three years and you're not even sure you want to use the JD. There are people (myself included) with numbers in your range who REALLY want to go, so I'm not just telling you T14 or bust, I'm telling you if you don't WANT TO DON'T DO IT. This is one of the things that gave me the idea that you don't want to go:

Alek wrote:At this point I am considering seeking other graduate options given that I am not inspired to practice law. Law seems like a field I have the skill set for, however if I'm not going to use the specialized knowledge, or plan on needing it, why go?


The posts in which you said that you know people who have JD's and don't use them and are perfectly happy and the post in which you referenced it being difficult to get a paralegal job are the ones that made me think that you are "ignoring the bad job market". There are a couple of points to make here:

1. This is a public forum in which many people give advice to hundreds of people all the time. That means that we generalize because in our advice we cannot account for whatever stroke of luck you may have that will land you some awesome job in which you are not a lawyer but still practice law. If we said that to everyone then we wouldn't be being realistic. Those jobs may be out there but they are not in any way abundant and should not be counted on. You shouldn't go to law school without some expectation of actually being a lawyer. Period.

2. The job market sucks for everything right now. You said you personally knew someone who is having trouble finding a job in the LEGAL (yes it's a paralegal but it's the same field) field. Guess what? The legal job market sucks even more than a lot of other job markets right now, it's not exactly on it's way to recovery any time soon. I'm not going to make generalization about Tier 1, T14, T17, T79, etc going to law school is risky right now matter what. Go read the legal employment forum if you want some anecdotes.

3. When someone comes in here and says that they don't wanna go, but why not? I'm going to tell that person to explore other options that may have way more job options and JOBS. Let us people with low numbers who really want to go be stupid and go, but if you don't want to go don't go.

Also, if despite all of this you STILL go then:
Alek wrote:I did a few practice LSATs and earned a 164 on the real deal. I feel that even if I were to score 169 in a retaken test my low GPA and practical absence of "soft factors" will still be a blemish. I am anxious my personal statement will be weak.


This is just plain wrong. A 164 and 169 are NOT the same thing. At all. RETAKE your LSAT. A 169 opens so many more doors (schools) than were open with a 164. Soft factors don't matter and your personal statement just needs to be readable and not make you look insane.

If you stick around and read this forum you will see that there is a wealth of information (and sarcasm and general douchiness) that can help you if you do decide to go. You are not the first person to get this kind of advice or reaction from the people here. HTH.

Alek
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Alek » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:03 pm

Thanks for the honest reply.

<snip>
Last edited by Alek on Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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paratactical
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby paratactical » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:07 pm

Alek, your GPA and your LSAT are generally 80+% of what admits you. No one cares that you lost your BFFs.

Alek
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Alek » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:19 pm

paratactical wrote:Alek, your GPA and your LSAT are generally 80+% of what admits you. No one cares that you lost your BFFs.

Well I didn't care for posts that questioned my sincerity. I answered them, and if you don't have anything to contribute on "my chances," feel free to not post.

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paratactical
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby paratactical » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:33 pm

Alek wrote:
paratactical wrote:Alek, your GPA and your LSAT are generally 80+% of what admits you. No one cares that you lost your BFFs.

Well I didn't care for posts that questioned my sincerity. I answered them, and if you don't have anything to contribute on "my chances," feel free to not post.

I'm not questioning your sincerity, I'm saying that your PS doesn't matter and while these things might be important to you on a personal level, not law school is going to deny you admission because of them as long as you have solid numbers.

Alek
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Alek » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:38 pm

paratactical wrote:
Alek wrote:
paratactical wrote:Alek, your GPA and your LSAT are generally 80+% of what admits you. No one cares that you lost your BFFs.

Well I didn't care for posts that questioned my sincerity. I answered them, and if you don't have anything to contribute on "my chances," feel free to not post.

I'm not questioning your sincerity, I'm saying that your PS doesn't matter and while these things might be important to you on a personal level, not law school is going to deny you admission because of them as long as you have solid numbers.

Alright.

Are the low Tier-1, high tier-2 schools what I should be aiming at? Are my "reach" schools reasonable for that category?

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JazzOne
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby JazzOne » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:43 pm

gz5hc9 wrote:
OGR3 wrote:
Alek wrote:Thanks for the replies!

Did you all do internships as an undergrad? Is that what inspired you to get a JD?

I feel I don't have many other good options. The three alternatives to law school would be pursuing an MBA, an MPA, or a doctoral track in political science. Without telling my life story, each of those things seem harder to attain or too narrow a career choice. I have never done well in advanced math.

I look at my decision like a chess move. Getting a JD is a good positional play. It's less risky and still has potential. Though I don't dream of litigation or courtroom drama, I like that as a possibility. My impression, and this is from a guy who hasn't done internships and is behind the curve, is that being a prosecutor or part of a mid-size firm in Cleveland are much more fulfilling careers than a mid-level manager or bureaucratic drone. I like the freedom of being able to choose that path once I get a taste of it.

Hindsight is 20/20, and I would have done a lot of things different up to this point. I've talked to a few friends of the family but what I really need is a pre-law advisor, which my (large) university doesn't have.


All the best lawyers went to law school because they couldn't think of anything better to do with their political science degree. Listen, unless you're at HYS, law school is a risky proposition. Outside of the T14, it becomes a very risky proposition.

It sounds like you haven't researched this at all and you're just considering it because you can't think of anything else to do. Seriously, unless you legitimately want to be a LAWYER, do not go to law school.



who do you think you are? most of the top 50 schools are recognized as very good law schools and place well with employers in their regions. if you go to any tier 1 or tier 2 law school, get very good grades (top 15% of class), and have a good head on your shoulders, you can have a successful and fulfilling legal career. "risky proposition going to NYU, Columbia, or Chicago? please.

Hahahahaha, how the hell did I miss this gem?

Who the hell do you think you are? Are you in law school? Have you been through the hiring ringer recently? If no, then STFU.

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paratactical
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby paratactical » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:45 pm

Check this out:

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-co ... ograms.htm

Just plug your numbers in and it will give you Deny, Weak Consider, Consider, Strong Consider and Admit. Weak Considers should be your reaches; Considers, target schools; Strong Considers, safetys.

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OGR3
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby OGR3 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:06 pm

JazzOne wrote:
gz5hc9 wrote:
OGR3 wrote:
Alek wrote:Thanks for the replies!

Did you all do internships as an undergrad? Is that what inspired you to get a JD?

I feel I don't have many other good options. The three alternatives to law school would be pursuing an MBA, an MPA, or a doctoral track in political science. Without telling my life story, each of those things seem harder to attain or too narrow a career choice. I have never done well in advanced math.

I look at my decision like a chess move. Getting a JD is a good positional play. It's less risky and still has potential. Though I don't dream of litigation or courtroom drama, I like that as a possibility. My impression, and this is from a guy who hasn't done internships and is behind the curve, is that being a prosecutor or part of a mid-size firm in Cleveland are much more fulfilling careers than a mid-level manager or bureaucratic drone. I like the freedom of being able to choose that path once I get a taste of it.

Hindsight is 20/20, and I would have done a lot of things different up to this point. I've talked to a few friends of the family but what I really need is a pre-law advisor, which my (large) university doesn't have.


All the best lawyers went to law school because they couldn't think of anything better to do with their political science degree. Listen, unless you're at HYS, law school is a risky proposition. Outside of the T14, it becomes a very risky proposition.

It sounds like you haven't researched this at all and you're just considering it because you can't think of anything else to do. Seriously, unless you legitimately want to be a LAWYER, do not go to law school.



who do you think you are? most of the top 50 schools are recognized as very good law schools and place well with employers in their regions. if you go to any tier 1 or tier 2 law school, get very good grades (top 15% of class), and have a good head on your shoulders, you can have a successful and fulfilling legal career. "risky proposition going to NYU, Columbia, or Chicago? please.

Hahahahaha, how the hell did I miss this gem?

Who the hell do you think you are? Are you in law school? Have you been through the hiring ringer recently? If no, then STFU.


I can't believe I missed this either...

Obviously I was exaggerating to some extent, but I'm sticking by my statement. How many 1Ls walk onto campus thinking they're going to be in the top 10%?

Also, have you seen the debt loads some of these students graduate with? I'm sorry, but I would not have gone to law school if I was going to graduate with $200,000 in debt. That's what I like to call "a risky proposition."

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Wade LeBosh
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Wade LeBosh » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:16 pm

If I were in your position, I would spend a few months with the Powerscore bibles (IMO there's no point in taking the LSAT unless you're going to give 100%) and retake. You're GPA isn't great so if you can crack a 170 on LSAT (you probably can if you got 164 for little effort) maybe you can get a scholly at a lower T1. If you're not paying more than you can reasonably afford you should go.

I'm an arts major and I know that for most non-technical degrees job outlooks (if you didn't go to an Ivy) are slim pickins (for me personally I would be insane NOT to go to grad school, IDK about you). No you're not going to get BigLaw, but if you work your ass off you have a higher chance getting a good job than you do now.

edubs003
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby edubs003 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:17 pm

My buddy just got into Denver with a 163/3.18 with a $20,000 scholarship. Don't know if you consider that a Tier 1 though.

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Pleasye
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Pleasye » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:16 pm

Well I think I said it in my massive post, but if you DO want to pursue law school then TCR is retake.

ETA: and no, Denver is Tier 2 technically.

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JazzOne
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby JazzOne » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:01 am

LSpleaseee wrote:Well I think I said it in my massive post, but if you DO want to pursue law school then TCR is retake.

ETA: and no, Denver is Tier 2 technically.

Well, if you're using USNWR, then there is no T2 (technically).

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Pleasye
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Pleasye » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:56 pm

JazzOne wrote:
LSpleaseee wrote:Well I think I said it in my massive post, but if you DO want to pursue law school then TCR is retake.

ETA: and no, Denver is Tier 2 technically.

Well, if you're using USNWR, then there is no T2 (technically).

My technically was referring to the fact that tier 1 is top 100 in us news but Tier 1 ends at Top 50 by TLS standards. Wrong use of the word, sorry.

Alek
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Alek » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:55 am

Okay we've talked about LSAT, what about GPA? I have two quarters left where I'm meeting the last required hours for my degree. I expect to raise my GPA. Would it be worth it to wait a year, retake the LSAT next fall, and let my grades for this winter and spring quarter boost my GPA by the time of application? That would also give me time to qualify for early decision options. It is a long stretch of time. At best though, I think I would have a 3.3 LSDAS. Right now it's closer to 3.1.

I do not need to wait a year to work or save money, the numbers would be the major reason.

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Pleasye
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Pleasye » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:28 pm

Alek wrote:Okay we've talked about LSAT, what about GPA? I have two quarters left where I'm meeting the last required hours for my degree. I expect to raise my GPA. Would it be worth it to wait a year, retake the LSAT next fall, and let my grades for this winter and spring quarter boost my GPA by the time of application? That would also give me time to qualify for early decision options. It is a long stretch of time. At best though, I think I would have a 3.3 LSDAS. Right now it's closer to 3.1.

I do not need to wait a year to work or save money, the numbers would be the major reason.

Yes its a great idea. I had a 3.17 I think and boosted it to a 3.32. I haven't applied yet (taking another year off) but that put me over the 25th percentiles of a lot of schools where I would've been below. To me, that was worth it. Now I'm taking another year off in order to raise my LSAT (this is currently my first year off). I'm trying to put myself in the best position possible to get into the best school possible. We'll see what happens, but IMO it's worth it.

Alek
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Alek » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:52 pm

.




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