3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

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Alek
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3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Alek » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:07 pm

Hi, I have done some research but I still have some questions. I'd appreciate any advice.

I'm a resident of Ohio, my LSDAS will be upwards of 3.2. Unfortunately for this figure, my university is on a four point scale. Similarly the "upward trend" of my GPA from C+ Freshman year average to A- Junior year average isn't remarkable and lacks a good excuse. I think mentioning it would lead to questions about why I switched majors after that crushing first year (I am currently a PoliSci major). I'll have to look into other sections of this site to see how to tackle that in my personal statement.

I did a few practice LSATs and earned a 164 on the real deal. I feel that even if I were to score 169 in a retaken test my low GPA and practical absence of "soft factors" will still be a blemish. At this point I am considering seeking other graduate options given that I am not inspired to practice law. Law seems like a field I have the skill set for, however if I'm not going to use the specialized knowledge, or plan on needing it, why go? I am anxious my personal statement will be weak.

After a few days research I've compiled this list of schools. I tried to avoid expensive out-of-state private schools and emphasize regional career opportunities. I have little debt currently, but tuition is relevant.


Safety
Michigan State
Cleveland State University
U. of Akron

On Par
Case Western
U. of Cincinnati
U. of Connectut
Wake Forest
American (DC)

Reach
The Ohio State University
U. of Minnesota
U. of Wisconsin


Have I assigned these schools to the right categories? Have I aimed too high? Are there schools missing I might be interested in?

Thanks!

P.S. Regretabbly I am late in getting LORs. One of my senior professors is a graduate of Wisconsin. Would a LOR from an teaching alum carry any weight? :?

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:03 pm

Alek wrote:I did a few practice LSATs and earned a 164 on the real deal. I feel that even if I were to score 169 in a retaken test my low GPA and practical absence of "soft factors" will still be a blemish. At this point I am considering seeking other graduate options given that I am not inspired to practice law. Law seems like a field I have the skill set for, however if I'm not going to use the specialized knowledge, or plan on needing it, why go? I am anxious my personal statement will be weak.


If you don't know for sure that you want to be a lawyer (or be something that needs a JD), don't do it. You could be facing $200,000 in debt for something that you feel meh about. Definitely look into other options.

The joke reply on this site is "retake!" However, I really recommend it based on personal experience: After college, I've taken two years off and really come up with good reasons why I should go to law school. My GPA is 3.3, and I am 157/164/172 on LSATs. If you take more than "a few practice LSAT's" you'll probably improve tremendously since you're doing well without a lot of work. Think about it. I'm already in at Georgetown and am waiting to hear from other schools- for me the time off and retake was absolutely worth it.

Good luck.

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OGR3
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby OGR3 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:09 pm

If you don't want to be a lawyer, then don't go to law school.

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby lzyovrachievr » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:10 pm

Eugenie Danglars wrote:
The joke reply on this site is "retake!" However, I really recommend it based on personal experience: After college, I've taken two years off and really come up with good reasons why I should go to law school. My GPA is 3.3, and I am 157/164/172 on LSATs. If you take more than "a few practice LSAT's" you'll probably improve tremendously since you're doing well without a lot of work. Think about it. I'm already in at Georgetown and am waiting to hear from other schools- for me the time off and retake was absolutely worth it.

Good luck.


+1 (165, 170, 173)

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kalvano
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby kalvano » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:42 pm

Alek wrote:I did a few practice LSATs and earned a 164 on the real deal. I feel that even if I were to score 169 in a retaken test my low GPA and practical absence of "soft factors" will still be a blemish.


A 169 is huge compared to a 164.

However, if you don't want to practice law, then don't go to law school.

Alek
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Alek » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:44 pm

Thanks for the replies!

Did you all do internships as an undergrad? Is that what inspired you to get a JD?

I feel I don't have many other good options. The three alternatives to law school would be pursuing an MBA, an MPA, or a doctoral track in political science. Without telling my life story, each of those things seem harder to attain or too narrow a career choice. I have never done well in advanced math.

I look at my decision like a chess move. Getting a JD is a good positional play. It's less risky and still has potential. Though I don't dream of litigation or courtroom drama, I like that as a possibility. My impression, and this is from a guy who hasn't done internships and is behind the curve, is that being a prosecutor or part of a mid-size firm in Cleveland are much more fulfilling careers than a mid-level manager or bureaucratic drone. I like the freedom of being able to choose that path once I get a taste of it.

Hindsight is 20/20, and I would have done a lot of things different up to this point. I've talked to a few friends of the family but what I really need is a pre-law advisor, which my (large) university doesn't have.

Sandro
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Sandro » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:04 pm

Eugenie Danglars wrote:My GPA is 3.3, and I am 157/164/172 on LSATs. .


I'm at kinda similiar GPA - 157/164 and retaking in Dec. Any general advice on how you approached the third time and made that jump?

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paratactical
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby paratactical » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:09 pm

Alek wrote:I look at my decision like a chess move. Getting a JD is a good positional play. It's less risky and still has potential.


The internship is not what is barring you from making this move successfully, it's that it does not sound like you've done research as to what job opportunies are like for JDs right now compared to the debt that one incurs for the degree.

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AJaKe
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby AJaKe » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:14 pm

.
Last edited by AJaKe on Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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OGR3
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby OGR3 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:16 pm

Alek wrote:Thanks for the replies!

Did you all do internships as an undergrad? Is that what inspired you to get a JD?

I feel I don't have many other good options. The three alternatives to law school would be pursuing an MBA, an MPA, or a doctoral track in political science. Without telling my life story, each of those things seem harder to attain or too narrow a career choice. I have never done well in advanced math.

I look at my decision like a chess move. Getting a JD is a good positional play. It's less risky and still has potential. Though I don't dream of litigation or courtroom drama, I like that as a possibility. My impression, and this is from a guy who hasn't done internships and is behind the curve, is that being a prosecutor or part of a mid-size firm in Cleveland are much more fulfilling careers than a mid-level manager or bureaucratic drone. I like the freedom of being able to choose that path once I get a taste of it.

Hindsight is 20/20, and I would have done a lot of things different up to this point. I've talked to a few friends of the family but what I really need is a pre-law advisor, which my (large) university doesn't have.


All the best lawyers went to law school because they couldn't think of anything better to do with their political science degree. Listen, unless you're at HYS, law school is a risky proposition. Outside of the T14, it becomes a very risky proposition.

It sounds like you haven't researched this at all and you're just considering it because you can't think of anything else to do. Seriously, unless you legitimately want to be a LAWYER, do not go to law school.

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Pleasye
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Pleasye » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:20 pm

Alek wrote:Thanks for the replies!

Did you all do internships as an undergrad? Is that what inspired you to get a JD?

I feel I don't have many other good options. The three alternatives to law school would be pursuing an MBA, an MPA, or a doctoral track in political science. Without telling my life story, each of those things seem harder to attain or too narrow a career choice. I have never done well in advanced math.

I look at my decision like a chess move. Getting a JD is a good positional play. It's less risky and still has potential. Though I don't dream of litigation or courtroom drama, I like that as a possibility. My impression, and this is from a guy who hasn't done internships and is behind the curve, is that being a prosecutor or part of a mid-size firm in Cleveland are much more fulfilling careers than a mid-level manager or bureaucratic drone. I like the freedom of being able to choose that path once I get a taste of it.

Hindsight is 20/20, and I would have done a lot of things different up to this point. I've talked to a few friends of the family but what I really need is a pre-law advisor, which my (large) university doesn't have.

You should maybe do some research aside from watching Law & Order and Boston Legal and then decide if you want to go to law school.

Alek
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Alek » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:33 pm

LSpleaseee wrote:You should maybe do some research aside from watching Law & Order and Boston Legal and then decide if you want to go to law school.

What did Momma always say? "Don't feed the-" ...Damn I can't remember.

AJaKe wrote:You can at least get bottom of Tier 1, WL/Accept at American at least (I had slightly worse number and got that result) ... but really expensive, consider retaking.

Thank you! :)

OGR3 wrote:It sounds like you haven't researched this at all and you're just considering it because you can't think of anything else to do. Seriously, unless you legitimately want to be a LAWYER, do not go to law school.

That's fair enough, but the anecdotal evidence from friends of the family (four that got a JD and passed the bar), doesn't line up with the sentiment I see on this site and elsewhere online. They still use their law degree, and AFAIK their positions require it, but they're not practicing attorneys. They attended some of the same schools as the ones I'm looking at. I know the context of the economy is important, yet a common theme is their ability to find new positions.

Returning to my original post, even if I expect to use my law education in some capacity, how does that vague ambition translate to a personal statement? Perhaps this thread is best served in another subforum, but I'd at least like a few more opinions on my selected schools.

Thanks again.

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paratactical
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby paratactical » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:59 am

Alek wrote:That's fair enough, but the anecdotal evidence from friends of the family (four that got a JD and passed the bar), doesn't line up with the sentiment I see on this site and elsewhere online. They still use their law degree, and AFAIK their positions require it, but they're not practicing attorneys. They attended some of the same schools as the ones I'm looking at. I know the context of the economy is important, yet a common theme is their ability to find new positions.


When I first looked into law school I had family friends and people I knew tell me to go where ever I wanted and it would work out great. They also thought a 161 would get me into Harvard. If these friends of the family went to law school more than 10 years ago, they definitely DO NOT understand the current landscape awaiting a law school grad.

Alek wrote:Returning to my original post, even if I expect to use my law education in some capacity, how does that vague ambition translate to a personal statement? Perhaps this thread is best served in another subforum, but I'd at least like a few more opinions on my selected schools.

Thanks again.


Your personal statement should be about you. It doesn't necessarily have to be about law school. But I totally recommend that you write your statement about going to law school without wanting to be a practicing attorney. If your family friends are right and we're all wrong, then you should have no trouble getting into a great school with that application package. Let us know how that works out.

gambelda
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby gambelda » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:24 am

lzyovrachievr wrote:
Eugenie Danglars wrote:
The joke reply on this site is "retake!" However, I really recommend it based on personal experience: After college, I've taken two years off and really come up with good reasons why I should go to law school. My GPA is 3.3, and I am 157/164/172 on LSATs. If you take more than "a few practice LSAT's" you'll probably improve tremendously since you're doing well without a lot of work. Think about it. I'm already in at Georgetown and am waiting to hear from other schools- for me the time off and retake was absolutely worth it.

Good luck.


+1 (165, 170, 173)


Did you find your cycle was significantly impacted by the number of LSATs you took? I mean is it really true that say you have a 164-165 and then a 171 that the 171 means that much less? I'm sort of nervous this might happen to me but don't have too many plans for going to Harvard or Yale....I'd love to go to Chicago though. Just wondering if this happens if my chance of going to Chicago goes down the drain.... taking first LSAT saturday, 3.92 GPA.
Last edited by gambelda on Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:27 am

gambelda wrote:
lzyovrachievr wrote:
Eugenie Danglars wrote:
The joke reply on this site is "retake!" However, I really recommend it based on personal experience: After college, I've taken two years off and really come up with good reasons why I should go to law school. My GPA is 3.3, and I am 157/164/172 on LSATs. If you take more than "a few practice LSAT's" you'll probably improve tremendously since you're doing well without a lot of work. Think about it. I'm already in at Georgetown and am waiting to hear from other schools- for me the time off and retake was absolutely worth it.

Good luck.


+1 (165, 170, 173)


Did you find your cycle was significantly impacted by the number of LSATs you took? I mean is it really true that say you have a 164-165 and then a 171 that the 171 means that much less? I'm sort of nervous this might happen to me but don't have too many plans for going to Harvard or Yale....I'd love to go to Chicago though. Just wondering if this happens if my chance of going to Chicago goes down the drain.... taking first LSAT saturday, 3.92 GPA.


I'm mid-cycle (I kinda hate all this cycle terminology), so I'll get back to you, but so far I'm in at Georgetown. My GPA's well below their 25th. My last LSAT is above their 75th, and previous ones are below their 25th. Take that as you will.

gz5hc9
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby gz5hc9 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:30 pm

OGR3 wrote:
Alek wrote:Thanks for the replies!

Did you all do internships as an undergrad? Is that what inspired you to get a JD?

I feel I don't have many other good options. The three alternatives to law school would be pursuing an MBA, an MPA, or a doctoral track in political science. Without telling my life story, each of those things seem harder to attain or too narrow a career choice. I have never done well in advanced math.

I look at my decision like a chess move. Getting a JD is a good positional play. It's less risky and still has potential. Though I don't dream of litigation or courtroom drama, I like that as a possibility. My impression, and this is from a guy who hasn't done internships and is behind the curve, is that being a prosecutor or part of a mid-size firm in Cleveland are much more fulfilling careers than a mid-level manager or bureaucratic drone. I like the freedom of being able to choose that path once I get a taste of it.

Hindsight is 20/20, and I would have done a lot of things different up to this point. I've talked to a few friends of the family but what I really need is a pre-law advisor, which my (large) university doesn't have.


All the best lawyers went to law school because they couldn't think of anything better to do with their political science degree. Listen, unless you're at HYS, law school is a risky proposition. Outside of the T14, it becomes a very risky proposition.

It sounds like you haven't researched this at all and you're just considering it because you can't think of anything else to do. Seriously, unless you legitimately want to be a LAWYER, do not go to law school.



who do you think you are? most of the top 50 schools are recognized as very good law schools and place well with employers in their regions. if you go to any tier 1 or tier 2 law school, get very good grades (top 15% of class), and have a good head on your shoulders, you can have a successful and fulfilling legal career. "risky proposition going to NYU, Columbia, or Chicago? please.

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Pleasye
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Pleasye » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:34 pm

gz5hc9 wrote:who do you think you are? most of the top 50 schools are recognized as very good law schools and place well with employers in their regions. if you go to any tier 1 or tier 2 law school, get very good grades (top 15% of class), and have a good head on your shoulders, you can have a successful and fulfilling legal career. "risky proposition going to NYU, Columbia, or Chicago? please.

Yes because everyone can be top 15% of their class. We're all special snowflakes.

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paratactical
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby paratactical » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:40 pm

OGR3 wrote:Listen, unless you're at HYS, law school is a risky proposition. Outside of the T14, it becomes a very risky proposition.


While this statement isn't correct, it's also pretty laughable to say, oh just go to T1 or T2 and be top 15%!

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Pleasye
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Pleasye » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:49 pm

paratactical wrote:
OGR3 wrote:Listen, unless you're at HYS, law school is a risky proposition. Outside of the T14, it becomes a very risky proposition.


While this statement isn't correct, it's also pretty laughable to say, oh just go to T1 or T2 and be top 15%!

Para's smart. Listen to her.

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Grizz
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:52 pm

paratactical wrote:
OGR3 wrote:Listen, unless you're at HYS, law school is a risky proposition. Outside of the T14, it becomes a very risky proposition.


While this statement isn't correct, it's also pretty laughable to say, oh just go to T1 or T2 and be top 15%!


What about T17 lulz

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Grizz
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:53 pm

Get a job as a paralegal to see if you would enjoy legal work. Plus you make money.

Alek
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Alek » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:31 pm

I'm guessing there aren't any outrageous choices in the schools I listed in the OP?

rad law wrote:Get a job as a paralegal to see if you would enjoy legal work. Plus you make money.

Well one of my parents is currently a paralegal, and I know it would be difficult to find employment given her recent job search. I would also guess I'd need a little more education to even qualify, but perhaps not a prohibitive amount.

Immediate employment is a fair idea.

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Pleasye
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Pleasye » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:36 pm

Alek wrote:I'm guessing there aren't any outrageous choices in the schools I listed in the OP?

rad law wrote:Get a job as a paralegal to see if you would enjoy legal work. Plus you make money.

Well one of my parents is currently a paralegal, and I know it would be difficult to find employment given her recent job search. I would also guess I'd need a little more education to even qualify, but perhaps not a prohibitive amount.

Immediate employment is a fair idea.

Finding work during/after law school is a breeze though, no worries.

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Grizz
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:49 pm

Alek wrote:I'm guessing there aren't any outrageous choices in the schools I listed in the OP?

rad law wrote:Get a job as a paralegal to see if you would enjoy legal work. Plus you make money.

Well one of my parents is currently a paralegal, and I know it would be difficult to find employment given her recent job search. I would also guess I'd need a little more education to even qualify, but perhaps not a prohibitive amount.

Immediate employment is a fair idea.


If you're a college graduate, you're more than qualified.

whymeohgodno
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Re: 3.2 LSDAS / 164 LSAT Tier 1?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:53 pm

LSpleaseee wrote:
Alek wrote:I'm guessing there aren't any outrageous choices in the schools I listed in the OP?

rad law wrote:Get a job as a paralegal to see if you would enjoy legal work. Plus you make money.

Well one of my parents is currently a paralegal, and I know it would be difficult to find employment given her recent job search. I would also guess I'd need a little more education to even qualify, but perhaps not a prohibitive amount.

Immediate employment is a fair idea.

Finding work during/after law school is a breeze though, no worries.


+1

But you get to delay it for a few years.




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