2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

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LS-Hopeful
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:54 pm

kings84_wr wrote:Top 10% at IU will not get you chicago, Indianapolis maybe, Chicago no. I can honestly say I know 0 people from last years class that got chicago Big Law.



Hmm - I was making the (incorrect?) assumption that somebody graduating in the top 10% from a T1 program in the region (UI) would be able to get a good Big Law job in one of America's largest cities.

What makes Chicago such a "tough nut to crack"?

Thanks in advance.

LS-Hopeful
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:56 pm

Nicholasnickynic wrote:Honestly, with your kind of w/e, I'm not sure its even necessary to go to law school to get hired by a law firm. All they really care about is work experience. You should just start cold calling all the major big law players.

Good luck!!



Thanks!

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Dex
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby Dex » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:16 pm

LS-Hopeful wrote:
kings84_wr wrote:Top 10% at IU will not get you chicago, Indianapolis maybe, Chicago no. I can honestly say I know 0 people from last years class that got chicago Big Law.



Hmm - I was making the (incorrect?) assumption that somebody graduating in the top 10% from a T1 program in the region (UI) would be able to get a good Big Law job in one of America's largest cities.

What makes Chicago such a "tough nut to crack"?

Thanks in advance.


The Chicago market hasn't recovered as well as say - New York - has. Couple that with the fact that you'll be competing with a lot of grads from UC, Northwestern, Michigan, and students from the rest of the T-14 who have ties in the area, and I could see how it would be hard for IU to break in, even with top 10% grades.

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Dex
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby Dex » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:19 pm

LS-Hopeful wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:Honestly, with your kind of w/e, I'm not sure its even necessary to go to law school to get hired by a law firm. All they really care about is work experience. You should just start cold calling all the major big law players.

Good luck!!



Thanks!



Also I'm pretty sure the above was sarcastic. If it's not, then it is just plain stupid. Law firms look first and foremost at grades (although I've heard IP law will make pretty big concessions for WE). Having work experience is nice - but it's not going to cause a firm to take you if you are in the bottom third over someone in the top third.

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whitman
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby whitman » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:30 pm

I feel dumber for having read this thread.

sissyclark
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby sissyclark » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:01 am

I hope it's not just me, but I just flat-out don't like the OP. He/she seems like they think they are entitled to a biglaw job from their work experience (which likely won't do much at all) AND they seem to assume they will graduate top 10%.

Every time someone tells you your work experience won't help, you don't have to recite how much work experience you have. If your WE is really as valuable as you say it is, then you wouldn't need us for validation. Just see if it works at OCI.

LS-Hopeful
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:57 am

Dex wrote:
LS-Hopeful wrote:
kings84_wr wrote:Top 10% at IU will not get you chicago, Indianapolis maybe, Chicago no. I can honestly say I know 0 people from last years class that got chicago Big Law.



Hmm - I was making the (incorrect?) assumption that somebody graduating in the top 10% from a T1 program in the region (UI) would be able to get a good Big Law job in one of America's largest cities.

What makes Chicago such a "tough nut to crack"?

Thanks in advance.


The Chicago market hasn't recovered as well as say - New York - has. Couple that with the fact that you'll be competing with a lot of grads from UC, Northwestern, Michigan, and students from the rest of the T-14 who have ties in the area, and I could see how it would be hard for IU to break in, even with top 10% grades.


That makes sense - do you know how much of a salary hit (%) someone would take for working in a smaller market?

LS-Hopeful
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:03 am

Dex wrote:
LS-Hopeful wrote:
kings84_wr wrote:Top 10% at IU will not get you chicago, Indianapolis maybe, Chicago no. I can honestly say I know 0 people from last years class that got chicago Big Law.



Hmm - I was making the (incorrect?) assumption that somebody graduating in the top 10% from a T1 program in the region (UI) would be able to get a good Big Law job in one of America's largest cities.

What makes Chicago such a "tough nut to crack"?

Thanks in advance.


The Chicago market hasn't recovered as well as say - New York - has. Couple that with the fact that you'll be competing with a lot of grads from UC, Northwestern, Michigan, and students from the rest of the T-14 who have ties in the area, and I could see how it would be hard for IU to break in, even with top 10% grades.


That makes sense - do you know how much of a salary hit (%) someone would take for working in a smaller market? Also, would one be able to get a job on the West Coast out of a T30 like IU?

LS-Hopeful
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:05 am

Dex wrote:
LS-Hopeful wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:Honestly, with your kind of w/e, I'm not sure its even necessary to go to law school to get hired by a law firm. All they really care about is work experience. You should just start cold calling all the major big law players.

Good luck!!



Thanks!



Also I'm pretty sure the above was sarcastic. If it's not, then it is just plain stupid. Law firms look first and foremost at grades (although I've heard IP law will make pretty big concessions for WE). Having work experience is nice - but it's not going to cause a firm to take you if you are in the bottom third over someone in the top third.


I was providing a sarcastic response to a non value-add comment

Army2Law
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby Army2Law » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:06 am

I originally wanted to go the JD/MBA route for semi-similar reasons to yours, OP. However, I ended up getting WL-denied at the B School at the school I'm attending LS at, so that put a crimp in my plans. I was going to reapply to the B School this year and start the dual degree program next year (I'm a 1L) but I did some research and I decided that the MBA wouldn't be as necessary for advancement in the business world as I had thought (and also decided I could get an EMBA in the future, need be).

tl;dr- here's a link that shows that 9 of the Fortune 50 CEOs just have JDs --LinkRemoved--

Best of luck whatever you choose!

LS-Hopeful
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:06 am

sissyclark wrote:I hope it's not just me, but I just flat-out don't like the OP. He/she seems like they think they are entitled to a biglaw job from their work experience (which likely won't do much at all) AND they seem to assume they will graduate top 10%.

Every time someone tells you your work experience won't help, you don't have to recite how much work experience you have. If your WE is really as valuable as you say it is, then you wouldn't need us for validation. Just see if it works at OCI.



Way to add value to the forum.

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Dex
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby Dex » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:13 am

LS-Hopeful wrote:
Dex wrote:
LS-Hopeful wrote:
kings84_wr wrote:Top 10% at IU will not get you chicago, Indianapolis maybe, Chicago no. I can honestly say I know 0 people from last years class that got chicago Big Law.



Hmm - I was making the (incorrect?) assumption that somebody graduating in the top 10% from a T1 program in the region (UI) would be able to get a good Big Law job in one of America's largest cities.

What makes Chicago such a "tough nut to crack"?

Thanks in advance.


The Chicago market hasn't recovered as well as say - New York - has. Couple that with the fact that you'll be competing with a lot of grads from UC, Northwestern, Michigan, and students from the rest of the T-14 who have ties in the area, and I could see how it would be hard for IU to break in, even with top 10% grades.


That makes sense - do you know how much of a salary hit (%) someone would take for working in a smaller market? Also, would one be able to get a job on the West Coast out of a T30 like IU?


Depends on what you mean by smaller market. If you mean doing big law in a secondary market you can expect salaries to be lower - but typically so is the cost of living in those areas. If you mean smaller market as in mid-law or small firm (shit-law) then you can expect a significant drop in salary. Law is known for having a fairly bimodal salary distribution - if you miss big law there's normally a large drop in salary as most legal jobs fall into either big law or small firm/government with little in between. This is my understanding from reading around here, if I'm off the mark anyone should feel free to correct me.

Could you get a West Coast job out of T30? Sure. Out of IU? Doubtful. Once you get out of the T14 schools become much more regionally based. If you want to work in the West Coast you should pick a school in the West Coast. You should keep in mind with your GPA that West Coast schools are notorious for caring more about GPAs. That being said, if you're looking outside of the T14 (maybe T17) I'd recommend you become less concerned overall with ranking and more with scholarships and the school's placement in its local market - that's just my advice.

downstream
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby downstream » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:19 am

"Smaller market" typically means that it is a mom and pop-esque convenience store instead of like a Whole Foods

Batfink55
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby Batfink55 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:14 am

FuManChusco wrote:
Batfink55 wrote:Reading the various responses to his original post have nearly made me not want to go to law school for fear that I might have some of you as my classmates and/or colleagues in the future.

Honestly, perhaps some of you should spend less time with your head buried in an LSAT prep book and more time learning the art of tact and diplomacy.

Such venom--and for what? To belittle his accomplishments? Last I checked none of you were actually on admissions committees...


someone is new to TLS


Yes and someone is leaving.

I joined this forum because when I was applying for my undergrad degree I found the Princeton Review forum helpful and supportive throughout the admissions process.

The vast majority of responders to this man's post seem neither helpful nor supportive and quite frankly it is a waste of my time to engage with people, who if they've been taught manners--refuse to exhibit them. I also don't accept that one needs to be rude and engage in jabs at another's intellect to offer good advice or that these traits are somehow necessary for the successful practice of law.

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TommyK
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby TommyK » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:40 am

Batfink55 wrote:
FuManChusco wrote:
Batfink55 wrote:Reading the various responses to his original post have nearly made me not want to go to law school for fear that I might have some of you as my classmates and/or colleagues in the future.

Honestly, perhaps some of you should spend less time with your head buried in an LSAT prep book and more time learning the art of tact and diplomacy.

Such venom--and for what? To belittle his accomplishments? Last I checked none of you were actually on admissions committees...


someone is new to TLS


Yes and someone is leaving.

I joined this forum because when I was applying for my undergrad degree I found the Princeton Review forum helpful and supportive throughout the admissions process.

The vast majority of responders to this man's post seem neither helpful nor supportive and quite frankly it is a waste of my time to engage with people, who if they've been taught manners--refuse to exhibit them. I also don't accept that one needs to be rude and engage in jabs at another's intellect to offer good advice or that these traits are somehow necessary for the successful practice of law.


You'll be missed. :roll:

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gobuffs10
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby gobuffs10 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:50 am

sissyclark wrote:I hope it's not just me, but I just flat-out don't like the OP. He/she seems like they think they are entitled to a biglaw job from their work experience (which likely won't do much at all) AND they seem to assume they will graduate top 10%.

Every time someone tells you your work experience won't help, you don't have to recite how much work experience you have. If your WE is really as valuable as you say it is, then you wouldn't need us for validation. Just see if it works at OCI.


You don't really seem to like anyone.

mrwarre85
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby mrwarre85 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:25 pm

FuManChusco wrote:My guess is OP is not a URM since he is arguing the point so much. With that said, no chance at a T25. Also, don't ever go to LS banking on finishing top 10% and getting biglaw.

Also, you come off as extremely arrogant whenever you talk about your WE. It's good, but it isn't going to open any magic doors for you.


From the most arrogant person I've encountered on the board. Ha.

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bk1
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby bk1 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:31 pm

whitman wrote:I feel dumber for having read this thread.


This, a million times this.

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FuManChusco
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby FuManChusco » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:37 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:
FuManChusco wrote:My guess is OP is not a URM since he is arguing the point so much. With that said, no chance at a T25. Also, don't ever go to LS banking on finishing top 10% and getting biglaw.

Also, you come off as extremely arrogant whenever you talk about your WE. It's good, but it isn't going to open any magic doors for you.


From the most arrogant person I've encountered on the board. Ha.


nice thread bump mang. I just tell it like it is. that's how the internet works. if I'm the most arrogant person you've ever seen on the boards, then you haven't been on them very much.

LS-Hopeful
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:28 am

Army2Law wrote:I originally wanted to go the JD/MBA route for semi-similar reasons to yours, OP. However, I ended up getting WL-denied at the B School at the school I'm attending LS at, so that put a crimp in my plans. I was going to reapply to the B School this year and start the dual degree program next year (I'm a 1L) but I did some research and I decided that the MBA wouldn't be as necessary for advancement in the business world as I had thought (and also decided I could get an EMBA in the future, need be).

tl;dr- here's a link that shows that 9 of the Fortune 50 CEOs just have JDs --LinkRemoved--

Best of luck whatever you choose!



Thanks for posting the article above - very interesting.... Looking at SMU now 8)

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Lawquacious
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby Lawquacious » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:12 am

Hmmm... this thread has probably run its course, which is usually when I get to them, BUT:

maybe I missed something but didn't ever see if the URM status was disclosed.. If URM, then I think awesome chances in T25 and probably reasonable chance in T14, if not URM then I think very poor chances in any T-25 with that GPA (even with a 3.5 I think you'd be pushing it if not URM at a T-25). Hence, it is probably worth figuring out if you are URM or not in order to make informed application decisions (not that having no chance stopped me at applying at a bunch of very highly ranked schools though lol).

I am non-URM and got wait-listed at a school currently ranked around 21 with a 3.5/166 last year (I withdrew rather than seeing what happened 'cause I wasn't crazy about going to that school anyway. I kinda wish I had retaken LSAT though as I am now hoping to transfer up from a lower T1 school and that has added some pressure).

In terms of work experience I really doubt it will make a difference for most schools except to give you a boost over someone with essentially the same numbers (and URM status) as you.

thmgoodw
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby thmgoodw » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:40 pm

im_blue wrote:I'd say that in general, top 10% at IU has maybe a 50/50 chance at Chicago biglaw, but your WE and URM boost will probably get you in.


My experience in 2001 (obviously things are different now, although the average credentials at IU are quite a bit better than when I was there).

Stats for IU:
Mayer Brown -- grade snobs, pretty much 5% will get in
Sidley -- top 10%
Kirkland -- tough to say. Top 10%, but they were known for taking top 25% with "cool" stuff on your resume, like ex-military
Other Chicago Biglaw -- Typically top 20% would get you an interview, but certainly top 10% is better.

This is for white male. If you are not a white male, then the more you deviate from that the more likely you are to get an interview with numbers less than those above.

Incidentally, I spent 2 years at Mayer Brown straight out of IU before shotgunning out to Biglaw on the east coast.




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