2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

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LS-Hopeful
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2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:37 am

I have a 165 and a 2.98

CPA with 3 years of WE in Finance at Intel

Founded a non-profit

Want to do a JD/MBA.

What is my best bet?

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FunkyJD
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby FunkyJD » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:43 am

URM? Undergrad major?

Why JD/MBA? What's your ultimate career outcome and desired market(s)?

LS-Hopeful
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:50 am

Hispanic

Accounting

A JD/MBA will allow me to deepen my business acumen and give me relevant knowledge for transactions involving complex financial data (ie valuations, modeling, etc)

I would like to start out in Chicago/Boston/DC/NY at a firm doing transactional work and then move back to the west coast to work in-house for a technology company, which is my passion (currently at Intel)

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2014
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby 2014 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:20 am

Are you a URM Hispanic or a South/Central American/Cuban Hispanic?

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FunkyJD
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby FunkyJD » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:24 am

LS-Hopeful wrote:Hispanic

Accounting

A JD/MBA will allow me to deepen my business acumen and give me relevant knowledge for transactions involving complex financial data (ie valuations, modeling, etc)

I would like to start out in Chicago/Boston/DC/NY at a firm doing transactional work and then move back to the west coast to work in-house for a technology company, which is my passion (currently at Intel)

FWIW, you don't need an MBA for transactional work. I've perused my share of law firms in Chicago (my preferred market), NYC, and DC, and there are a lot of people in transactional work who don't have MBAs or even BBAs. Nor do you need an MBA to be an in-house counsel. Others in finance can comment more substantively, but I'm of the impression that JD/MBAs are for people who want to do some hardcore securities law.

Your best bet with your numbers is to shoot for a decent regional school. Even with the URM boost, T14 is going to be tough for you, especially with your GPA. Accounting's not the easiest major, but they still likely need you to be well-above 2.9. Last cycle, Northwestern did accept a URM w/ a 2.87 & 160. Virginia took someone with a 3.02 and 160. Not impossible, but we're getting late in the cycle.

Otherwise, if you know for sure that you want to end up out west, with your numbers, probably wise to shoot for decent regional schools out there: Hastings, Davis. With your numbers, you might well have a shot at regional schools back East like WashU, Illinois, Notre Dame, Fordham, and Boston College, but there's no guarantee that you would find your way back West. That is, if you can do without the MBA. If you absolutely feel you have to have an MBA, though, that is going to complicate your strategy, and neither of these schools has a prominent MBA program.

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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:02 am

I'm planning on applying for the next cycle due to the fact that it is already kind of late and I want to get more WE under my belt.

I feel like an MBA will help give me an advantage on the operations side of the house when I decide to rejoin the enterprise. A lot of in-house counsels are held up from becoming COO/CEOs because they lack the operational business knowledge that comes with an MBA.

That being said, I am thinking:

1) University of Indiana-Bloomington (top MBA program too)
2) University of Illinois
3) Ohio State University

To have a shot at Northwestern/Virginia, I believe I'd have to retake and achieve a 170+ to be in the running.

What do you think about my choices above?

Also - thanks for your input I really appreciate it

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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:05 am

2014 wrote:Are you a URM Hispanic or a South/Central American/Cuban Hispanic?



Does it matter? I might be naive here..

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calilaw
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby calilaw » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:15 am

LS-Hopeful wrote:
2014 wrote:Are you a URM Hispanic or a South/Central American/Cuban Hispanic?



Does it matter? I might be naive here..


Yes. Differentiations exist and do matter.

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FunkyJD
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby FunkyJD » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:44 am

LS-Hopeful wrote:I'm planning on applying for the next cycle due to the fact that it is already kind of late and I want to get more WE under my belt.

I feel like an MBA will help give me an advantage on the operations side of the house when I decide to rejoin the enterprise. A lot of in-house counsels are held up from becoming COO/CEOs because they lack the operational business knowledge that comes with an MBA.

That being said, I am thinking:

1) University of Indiana-Bloomington (top MBA program too)
2) University of Illinois
3) Ohio State University

To have a shot at Northwestern/Virginia, I believe I'd have to retake and achieve a 170+ to be in the running.

What do you think about my choices above?

Also - thanks for your input I really appreciate it

Re: the MBA thing: If you still want it, that's up to you. An MBA is simply not necessary to be a GC. What is necessary is an excellent legal pedigree (or at least a lot of solid legal experience -- note where the Oracle lady went to law school.) Now whether that will hold you up from advancing in the company to CEO, you and others with more market experience than me will have to decide.

Tesla
Facebook (scroll to the end)
Clean Energy Fuels
Intel
Oracle
Rackspace

Also, see my edit for Indiana. A "top program" is Chicago, Wharton, Stanford, or Harvard, not Indiana. My only substantive comment that I can add to this is that each of the three schools you mentioned are highly unlikely to get you back to the West Coast, the third one especially. If you know people at Intel, I suppose that's helpful, but not the same thing as a guarantee of re-employment, this time as a counsel.

If you aren't going to apply this cycle, the advice to retake the LSAT and shoot for a 170 or higher -- despite the fact that I think that advice is given too much on this website -- is actually the best idea for you. With WE, I would think good thoughts about doing well on a retake and trying to get into Northwestern, especially if you're hell bent on a JD/MBA double.
Last edited by FunkyJD on Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

downstream
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby downstream » Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:00 pm

if hispanic URM, in at northwestern with $$. if not, then it looks like indiana is prob your best best but they might throw you $$$ too.

if urm, you should also consider duke and michigan. good b schools.

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FunkyJD
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby FunkyJD » Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:02 pm

Four tech CEO's who don't have MBAs.

Akamai (LinkRemoved)
Google
Tesla
Nvidia


Counter-evidence would be that CEOs of Chevron, Genentech, McKesson, and eBay are MBAs.

PS: As I write this, know that I am silently cursing myself and thinking, damn I wish I had OP's background.

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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby im_blue » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:32 pm

Retake - you won't get into any law school with a top MBA.

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2014
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby 2014 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:59 pm

LS-Hopeful wrote:
2014 wrote:Are you a URM Hispanic or a South/Central American/Cuban Hispanic?



Does it matter? I might be naive here..

Mexicans and Puerto Ricans get a boost.
All other Hispanics basically do not.

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gbpackerbacker
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby gbpackerbacker » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:15 pm

50

LS-Hopeful
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:17 pm

2014 wrote:
LS-Hopeful wrote:
2014 wrote:Are you a URM Hispanic or a South/Central American/Cuban Hispanic?



Does it matter? I might be naive here..

Mexicans and Puerto Ricans get a boost.
All other Hispanics basically do not.



LOL do they check your ethnicity papers? I thought everyone was URM

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FunkyJD
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby FunkyJD » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:20 pm

I don't know the specifics of which Hispanics & Latino do/don't get boosts, but if I remember correctly, some schools ask for more specific information along these lines, no?

Edit: I can confirm that on last year's apps, Chicago, Penn, Virginia, and Illinois all asked, just to name a few.
Last edited by FunkyJD on Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LS-Hopeful
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:21 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
LS-Hopeful wrote:I'm planning on applying for the next cycle due to the fact that it is already kind of late and I want to get more WE under my belt.

I feel like an MBA will help give me an advantage on the operations side of the house when I decide to rejoin the enterprise. A lot of in-house counsels are held up from becoming COO/CEOs because they lack the operational business knowledge that comes with an MBA.

That being said, I am thinking:

1) University of Indiana-Bloomington (top MBA program too)
2) University of Illinois
3) Ohio State University

To have a shot at Northwestern/Virginia, I believe I'd have to retake and achieve a 170+ to be in the running.

What do you think about my choices above?





Also - thanks for your input I really appreciate it

Re: the MBA thing: If you still want it, that's up to you. An MBA is simply not necessary to be a GC. What is necessary is an excellent legal pedigree (or at least a lot of solid legal experience -- note where the Oracle lady went to law school.) Now whether that will hold you up from advancing in the company to CEO, you and others with more market experience than me will have to decide.

Tesla
Facebook (scroll to the end)
Clean Energy Fuels
Intel
Oracle
Rackspace

Also, see my edit for Indiana. A "top program" is Chicago, Wharton, Stanford, or Harvard, not Indiana. My only substantive comment that I can add to this is that each of the three schools you mentioned are highly unlikely to get you back to the West Coast, the third one especially. If you know people at Intel, I suppose that's helpful, but not the same thing as a guarantee of re-employment, this time as a counsel.

If you aren't going to apply this cycle, the advice to retake the LSAT and shoot for a 170 or higher -- despite the fact that I think that advice is given too much on this website -- is actually the best idea for you. With WE, I would think good thoughts about doing well on a retake and trying to get into Northwestern, especially if you're hell bent on a JD/MBA double.



Thanks again. If I went BigLaw in Chicago after going to Illinois/Indiana, wouldn't I be able to go wherever I want after a couple of years there?

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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby Montevillian » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:27 pm

LS-Hopeful wrote:
2014 wrote:
LS-Hopeful wrote:
2014 wrote:Are you a URM Hispanic or a South/Central American/Cuban Hispanic?



Does it matter? I might be naive here..

Mexicans and Puerto Ricans get a boost.
All other Hispanics basically do not.



LOL do they check your ethnicity papers? I thought everyone was URM


Nope, just Mexicans and Puerto Ricans, African Americans, Native Americans... And that's just about it, unless I'm missing a group. Asians are a negative minority, and being from another country just makes for a good diversity statement. Nice to look at and it'll make you feel better having written it, but it won't make such a big impact on your cycle. And no one can really help you very well unless you answer the URM question rather than dancing around it like you are.

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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby FunkyJD » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:28 pm

LS-Hopeful wrote:Thanks again. If I went BigLaw in Chicago after going to Illinois/Indiana, wouldn't I be able to go wherever I want after a couple of years there?

If the "if" came true, answer is, "Maybe." What happens if you don't get BigLaw in Chicago?

See my edit in the comment above re: which schools asked for certain demographic info.

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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby Dex » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:12 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
LS-Hopeful wrote:Thanks again. If I went BigLaw in Chicago after going to Illinois/Indiana, wouldn't I be able to go wherever I want after a couple of years there?

If the "if" came true, answer is, "Maybe." What happens if you don't get BigLaw in Chicago?

See my edit in the comment above re: which schools asked for certain demographic info.


I was under the impression that the Chicago market is a very tough nut to crack these days - if that is still the case, and you're competing against NU and UC students - I wouldn't bank on making BigLaw in Chicago out of IU or Illinois.

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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby LS-Hopeful » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:33 pm

Dex wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:
LS-Hopeful wrote:Thanks again. If I went BigLaw in Chicago after going to Illinois/Indiana, wouldn't I be able to go wherever I want after a couple of years there?

If the "if" came true, answer is, "Maybe." What happens if you don't get BigLaw in Chicago?

See my edit in the comment above re: which schools asked for certain demographic info.


I was under the impression that the Chicago market is a very tough nut to crack these days - if that is still the case, and you're competing against NU and UC students - I wouldn't bank on making BigLaw in Chicago out of IU or Illinois.



OK - Say I'm in the top 10% out of IU. Would I still have a tough time in Chicago despite being a CPA with 3 years of WE at one of the worlds largest companies?

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im_blue
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby im_blue » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:37 pm

LS-Hopeful wrote:
Dex wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:
LS-Hopeful wrote:Thanks again. If I went BigLaw in Chicago after going to Illinois/Indiana, wouldn't I be able to go wherever I want after a couple of years there?

If the "if" came true, answer is, "Maybe." What happens if you don't get BigLaw in Chicago?

See my edit in the comment above re: which schools asked for certain demographic info.


I was under the impression that the Chicago market is a very tough nut to crack these days - if that is still the case, and you're competing against NU and UC students - I wouldn't bank on making BigLaw in Chicago out of IU or Illinois.



OK - Say I'm in the top 10% out of IU. Would I still have a tough time in Chicago despite being a CPA with 3 years of WE at one of the worlds largest companies?

I'd say that in general, top 10% at IU has maybe a 50/50 chance at Chicago biglaw, but your WE and URM boost will probably get you in.

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2014
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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby 2014 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:12 pm

LS-Hopeful wrote:
2014 wrote:
LS-Hopeful wrote:
2014 wrote:Are you a URM Hispanic or a South/Central American/Cuban Hispanic?



Does it matter? I might be naive here..

Mexicans and Puerto Ricans get a boost.
All other Hispanics basically do not.



LOL do they check your ethnicity papers? I thought everyone was URM

I think the boxes on the LSAC app are separate for Hispanic - Mexican/Puerto Rican, and Hispanic - Other.

If you lie on that it could come up in Character and Fitness evaluations while you are trying to pass the bar.

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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby sissyclark » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:25 pm

LS-Hopeful wrote:
Dex wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:
LS-Hopeful wrote:Thanks again. If I went BigLaw in Chicago after going to Illinois/Indiana, wouldn't I be able to go wherever I want after a couple of years there?

If the "if" came true, answer is, "Maybe." What happens if you don't get BigLaw in Chicago?

See my edit in the comment above re: which schools asked for certain demographic info.


I was under the impression that the Chicago market is a very tough nut to crack these days - if that is still the case, and you're competing against NU and UC students - I wouldn't bank on making BigLaw in Chicago out of IU or Illinois.



OK - Say I'm in the top 10% out of IU. Would I still have a tough time in Chicago despite being a CPA with 3 years of WE at one of the worlds largest companies?


I just love it when people build on amazing hypos like "what if I'm in the top 10%..." I don't think people realize how difficult that is. 80% of students come in expecting to be top 10%. Speaking from the viewpoint of someone who went through OCI and was successful, your work experience won't really give you much of a boost. Work experience, unless it was for a judge or something, is one of those things where it hurts you if you have absolutely no WE. But just because you were a CPA, it doesn't mean anything. It's pretty much all on your grades.

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Re: 2.98/165 Chances in the T-25?

Postby downstream » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:42 am

How good is your work experience? Namely, was your work experience good, i.e. did you enjoy working? This is the key to work experience.




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