Top Law Schools

Oh wow. A lawyer you know that graduated 20 years ago from a TTT is making 6 figures. I guess tier 3s are a great choice then. BRB, I know a guy that won 1 million on a lottery ticket. I'm going to go buy a bunch of them since 1 success story is clearly the rule and not an exception.

FYI: The lawyer mentioned last works for the state. The other guys have private practices.

ewj wrote:Thank you for your reply. The lawyers I've talked to have pretty well established careers - they're in their 40s-50s. Two of these lawyers that I spoke to went to the same tier one school and they're making really good money. Another lawyer I talked to went to a tier three school (Willamette University) and hes making about 110,000 a year which is where I'd like to be when I'm 40-50.

chip3341 wrote:All your info really depends on your source. Heck, I worked for/know a handful of lawyers who are really nice people. All of them went to a TTT and now make ~50k/yr. Their opinions sound about like the ones you're getting.

So, I guess if that's what you want, go for it. I find the whole idea pretty dismal, but whatever.

Concerning your LSAT, 149 kills your prospects. Sure, some people are just crappy test takers, but if you wanted to, I highly doubt 160 would be impossible. Retake in Feb, get some WE, and apply next year.

Or, screw everybody and apply this year with a 149 and hope for the best. Just try not settle for a place like UIdaho, or you'll end up practicing hill-people litigation for the rest of your life.

Haha, wow... some of you really like putting other people down. I guess that is the nature of online forums, though.

FuManChusco wrote:Oh wow. A lawyer you know that graduated 20 years ago from a TTT is making 6 figures. I guess tier 3s are a great choice then. BRB, I know a guy that won 1 million on a lottery ticket. I'm going to go buy a bunch of them since 1 success story is clearly the rule and not an exception.

chip3341 wrote:Just try not settle for a place like UIdaho, or you'll end up practicing hill-people litigation for the rest of your life.

Idaho is a fine institution.

tsutsik wrote:

chip3341 wrote:Just try not settle for a place like UIdaho, or you'll end up practicing hill-people litigation for the rest of your life.

Idaho is a fine institution.

TEOL. I suppose it's fine, depending on your goals.

ewj wrote:Haha, wow... some of you really like putting other people down. I guess that is the nature of online forums, though.

FuManChusco wrote:Oh wow. A lawyer you know that graduated 20 years ago from a TTT is making 6 figures. I guess tier 3s are a great choice then. BRB, I know a guy that won 1 million on a lottery ticket. I'm going to go buy a bunch of them since 1 success story is clearly the rule and not an exception.

I like putting people down just enough that they realize they're making a terrible life decision. I'm normally a pretty good guy. Don't come to top law schools and expect people to support your decision to go to a shit toilet school. That's like going to a forum for atheists and trying to preach the word of god.

FuManChusco wrote: OP is obviously a flame.

I am honestly not certain, but I do think this thread has been at least a marginally successful flame if indeed it is.

OP, I too know lawyers who went to small regional schools, graduated in the middle of their class, and now make 200K+. I can think of twelve off the top of my head all from different firms, hell my dad is one. However, keep in mind that when they came up there were fewer other attorneys. Their experience is dated at the least, and without being actively involved in hiring I don't imagine any of them would get anywhere close to scrutinizing LSAC data or trends.

That being said, the following is a distilled version of a piece of advice that I have gotten over and over again, which I find to be the better way of looking at things: caliber of school ~ general caliber of career starting point opportunity (+/- exceptional work ethic/intelligence/diversity/connections/etc). Basically, better ranked school gets you better initial beginnings, but the cream will rise and the rest will sink most of the time, regardless of where in the pale they begin.

Oh, but if this is a flame then congrats cause I just wasted 5 minutes of sportscenter.

That is true - it would be a bad idea for me to rely solely on this forum to help me make my decision since many of you are very high scorers with different goals.

I'm trying to utilize all the resources I can. Thank you for your input.

FuManChusco wrote:

ewj wrote:Haha, wow... some of you really like putting other people down. I guess that is the nature of online forums, though.

FuManChusco wrote:Oh wow. A lawyer you know that graduated 20 years ago from a TTT is making 6 figures. I guess tier 3s are a great choice then. BRB, I know a guy that won 1 million on a lottery ticket. I'm going to go buy a bunch of them since 1 success story is clearly the rule and not an exception.

I like putting people down just enough that they realize they're making a terrible life decision. I'm normally a pretty good guy. Don't come to top law schools and expect people to support your decision to go to a shit toilet school. That's like going to a forum for atheists and trying to preach the word of god.

This question really does not belong on these forums, or any for that matter.

Coolcat wrote:This question really does not belong on these forums, or any for that matter.

Even the guy with 1 post knows what's up.

FuManChusco wrote:

Coolcat wrote:This question really does not belong on these forums, or any for that matter.

Even the guy with 1 post knows what's up.

Haha please excuse my girlfriend she's just worried about her future.

Oh, so a "flame" means that this is all fake and I came on here to just mess with everyone?

No, that is not the case. I'm on here because I accidentally ran into another thread posted on this forum about a year ago by a guy who had a much lower score than I do and he wanted to know his chances. It sparked my interest, and since I'm really stressed about applying to schools ATM, I thought I could probably benefit from the knowledge on this forum.

Basically, my goal, is to do well in law school, pass the bar, get a job that allows me to practice the particular kind of law I want to practice and allows me to live a somewhat comfortable lifestyle.

I'm hoping this is possible and I came here to see if that is possible.

djjf39 wrote:

FuManChusco wrote: OP is obviously a flame.

I am honestly not certain, but I do think this thread has been at least a marginally successful flame if indeed it is.

OP, I too know lawyers who went to small regional schools, graduated in the middle of their class, and now make 200K+. I can think of twelve off the top of my head all from different firms, hell my dad is one. However, keep in mind that when they came up there were fewer other attorneys. Their experience is dated at the least, and without being actively involved in hiring I don't imagine any of them would get anywhere close to scrutinizing LSAC data or trends.

That being said, the following is a distilled version of a piece of advice that I have gotten over and over again, which I find to be the better way of looking at things: caliber of school ~ general caliber of career starting point opportunity (+/- exceptional work ethic/intelligence/diversity/connections/etc). Basically, better ranked school gets you better initial beginnings, but the cream will rise and the rest will sink most of the time, regardless of where in the pale they begin.

Oh, but if this is a flame then congrats cause I just wasted 5 minutes of sportscenter.

Coolcat wrote:

FuManChusco wrote:

Coolcat wrote:This question really does not belong on these forums, or any for that matter.

Even the guy with 1 post knows what's up.

Haha please excuse my girlfriend she's just worried about her future.

This is definitely a flame. No way OPs BF came on the forums. Hahaha. This is making work go by so quickly. Tell your girl to retake and stop listening to 50 year old lawyers and misinformed admissions counselors.

Coolcat wrote:

FuManChusco wrote:

Coolcat wrote:This question really does not belong on these forums, or any for that matter.

Even the guy with 1 post knows what's up.

Haha please excuse my girlfriend she's just worried about her future.

Girlfriend?

OP, you should think about waiting and getting some WE. What you said about your goals is good evidence that you can think longterm. Apply that ability to this problem, once you have a chance to consider the facts you should realize that waiting a year or two in order to 160+ the lsat is the best choice. FYI, personally, a 3.5 student can always get a 156+ so long as they study smart and diligently; this site is great for strategy about what has worked for others.

FuManChusco wrote:

Coolcat wrote:

FuManChusco wrote:

Coolcat wrote:This question really does not belong on these forums, or any for that matter.

Even the guy with 1 post knows what's up.

Haha please excuse my girlfriend she's just worried about her future.

This is definitely a flame. No way OPs BF came on the forums. Hahaha. This is making work go by so quickly. Tell your girl to retake and stop listening to 50 year old lawyers and misinformed admissions counselors.

I try to keep an eye on her, shes quiet sensitive and asking crazy broad questions on forums is just asking for trolls to come out of their caves.

Damn my flame sense is tingling, but I am kinda sucked in at this point

chip3341 wrote: Just try not settle for a place like UIdaho, or you'll end up practicing hill-people litigation for the rest of your life.

My friend is at U Idaho. Come on

Yep, that is my boyfriend. I sent him the link so he could see this discussion and he decided to post.

I don't know what OP means. Does WE mean work experience?

I've already waited a year since graduation because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do (I was deciding between law school and graduate school in history). So, waiting another year to re-take the LSAT sounds extremely unappealing but it is something I will consider.

djjf39 wrote:

Coolcat wrote:

FuManChusco wrote:

Coolcat wrote:This question really does not belong on these forums, or any for that matter.

Even the guy with 1 post knows what's up.

Haha please excuse my girlfriend she's just worried about her future.

Girlfriend?

OP, you should think about waiting and getting some WE. What you said about your goals is good evidence that you can think longterm. Apply that ability to this problem, once you have a chance to consider the facts you should realize that waiting a year or two in order to 160+ the lsat is the best choice. FYI, personally, a 3.5 student can always get a 156+ so long as they study smart and diligently; this site is great for strategy about what has worked for others.

djjf39 wrote:Damn my flame sense is tingling, but I am kinda sucked in at this point

I would have stopped paying attention if I wasn't bored at work, but this is too entertaining right now for some reason. I have to laugh at the, asking for trolls to come out of their caves, comment considering OP is the biggest troll here.

OP = Original Poster

Sitting another year out stinks, I waited two years. And if I had to do it over again I would have devoted much more time to LSAT prep. If you want to keep up academically then find a regional school you like with history department that grants terminal MAs, then do that, study for the LSAT and either don't finish the degree or ask for leave of absence (which they will grant) for law school and finish it at your leisure. But really, if you need to apply this cycle do so, try to get fee waivers, and see what happens. I would bet dollars to pesos that you will not like the results and will kick your self for waiting another five months to hear from schools.

Goodluck, and I really hope this is not a flame.

If you want a future in law, you should probably hold off on taking the Dec test. Work a couple of years, prepare the right way, and then take the test again. You cannot take the LSAT more than 3 times in a 2 yr period so if you do poorly again, you're screwed. A 149 will not get you into any reputable school. It's prob too late to cancel Dec now though.

As for the 3rd tier lawyer you know. He went to school 20 yrs ago and the legal world is much different than it was back then or even 10 years ago. Besides that, being a female isn't exactly going to work in your favor. Getting a job out of a T1 school is hard enough as is.

Pre-law advisors tend to be JDs who couldn't stick it in the real world so their advice is not really something you want to heed.

Wow! Pursuing the MA while I'm studying for the LSAT is an awesome suggestion. I feel stupid for not thinking of this. There actually are two decent MA programs nearby (PSU and U of O). I'm really going to take this into consideration.

Thanks a lot.

djjf39 wrote:OP = Original Poster

Sitting another year out stinks, I waited two years. And if I had to do it over again I would have devoted much more time to LSAT prep. If you want to keep up academically then find a regional school you like with history department that grants terminal MAs, then do that, study for the LSAT and either don't finish the degree or ask for leave of absence (which they will grant) for law school and finish it at your leisure. But really, if you need to apply this cycle do so, try to get fee waivers, and see what happens. I would bet dollars to pesos that you will not like the results and will kick your self for waiting another five months to hear from schools.

Goodluck, and I really hope this is not a flame.

I feel as if the advice/snarky comments on this thread are going in one ear and out the other.

These people are not going to tell you what you want to hear, but they are telling the truth. Tell us what you want to hear, and we can tell you if that sounds realistic.

I have a friend from college who had a 3.5 and a 152, and she was rejected to every school they applied to, including several T4's. With her relatively high GPA (as is yours) she was able to land a paralegal position in a nice city and they are now loving life. They will be taking the LSAT more seriously this time and applying next year (she took 2 years off).

No matter how you look at it, the truth is that with that score, even if you are accepted to a T4 school, you will not get any scholarship money. Only graduates from T4 insitutions in the top half of their class even have a chance at practicing law, and unless you are in the top 10%, you will not get any job that pays more than 50K. The students in the top 1/2 minus the top 10% will be looking at jobs around 30K-40K (the salary distribution for all lawyers is bi-modal, with very few making 100K+ and most making 30-60K). Also, a lot of those top 10% students will have an LSAT score much higher than you and have made the decision to attend a less rigorous school in exchange for a full scholarship. That makes your chances at being in the top 10% substantially less than 10%.

This is your life, the debt doesn't sound real right now, but it will be when you graduate. There are millions of lawyers out there who regret every day their decision to go to law school, as they graduated and went right back to the jobs they had before, or they are stuck in a low paying profession they hate. Just go to http://www.jdundergroud.com to see for yourself.

The math isn't too hard. Basically you have to ask yourself, do I want to bet 100K+ on (20 to 1)- odds, or am I comfortable working in an arduous and loveless profession for 40K a year in order to pay off 100K in student loans (that's almost a thousand dollars out of pocket a month on a 10 year payment plan), or do I want to stay out of debt and play the cards that are in my hand right now. And don't say,"but I'm a unique and special snowflake who will beat the odds" because odds are you're not.

Again, I feel this will fall on deaf ears, but what people are sayin is the truth.

Get a Masters. Discussion over.

FuManChusco wrote:

djjf39 wrote:Damn my flame sense is tingling, but I am kinda sucked in at this point

I would have stopped paying attention if I wasn't bored at work, but this is too entertaining right now for some reason. I have to laugh at the, asking for trolls to come out of their caves, comment considering OP is the biggest troll here.

Trolling and asking gullible questions is completely different. In no way is she trolling.