2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

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Jeffro
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby Jeffro » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:07 pm

FuManChusco wrote:
Blindc1rca wrote:i think OP might be surprised this cycle. i feel that TLSers can be overly pessimistic. This guy won a PURPLE HEART. Come on now.


not to be a total dick. I think OP is a badass and I hope he gets into a great school. Purple Hearts aren't all that rare though. at the end of they day it's still a 2.7/170. everyone is just being realistic.
I'm torn between both of these sentiments. Without a doubt, FuManChusco is right. There are a lot of Purple Heart recipients out there and I really do have a 2.73/170 to deal with. I also agree that there is a lot of pessimism out there, but it seems to be rooted in realism. It's all a numbers game to adcomms. When I found out my undergrad school was going to include all of my old grades on my transcript, it felt like I had just gotten a swift kick in the balls. It decimated my GPA.

All I really am hoping for is that, while there are a lot of Purple Heart recipients, not many of them actually apply to law school. And wouldn't a school love to add that onto their "Class of 2014 Profile" link? Maybe that will be just enough for some top ranked schools to say screw it and let me in.

Also, I promise I'm not a badass. Just a guy who was lucky enough to have often found himself in exactly the right place to be able to talk about it later and apply to law school.

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im_blue
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby im_blue » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:17 pm

FuManChusco wrote:
Blindc1rca wrote:i think OP might be surprised this cycle. i feel that TLSers can be overly pessimistic. This guy won a PURPLE HEART. Come on now.


not to be a total dick. I think OP is a badass and I hope he gets into a great school. Purple Hearts aren't all that rare though. at the end of they day it's still a 2.7/170. everyone is just being realistic.

+1. Not to diminish OP's accomplishments but according to wiki, there have been 42,000 Purple Hearts awarded for recent wars (Afghanistan + Iraq). With a GPA well under 3.0, an ED to NU or GULC is the only reasonable shot at a T14.

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Blindmelon
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:32 pm

Moral of the story, just apply anywhere you would attend from NU on up. I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up at WUSTL or its peers. But with a 2.73, that'd still be quite the accomplishment, and I think your experience will help you get there. Unfortunately, it may not take you farther than that.

Good luck though!

FlamingCow
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby FlamingCow » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:45 am

Speculation aside, thank you for your service. Good luck this go-round.

Rawlsian
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby Rawlsian » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:16 am

im_blue wrote:
FuManChusco wrote:
Blindc1rca wrote:i think OP might be surprised this cycle. i feel that TLSers can be overly pessimistic. This guy won a PURPLE HEART. Come on now.


not to be a total dick. I think OP is a badass and I hope he gets into a great school. Purple Hearts aren't all that rare though. at the end of they day it's still a 2.7/170. everyone is just being realistic.

+1. Not to diminish OP's accomplishments but according to wiki, there have been 42,000 Purple Hearts awarded for recent wars (Afghanistan + Iraq). With a GPA well under 3.0, an ED to NU or GULC is the only reasonable shot at a T14.


This seems right to me. Military experience is a soft boost, but it's at the margins like most other softs. After a decade of wars, veterans are a lot more common. To differentiate yourself, I'd avoid combat/loss of friends PS that I believe adcoms read all the time. WUSTL, Minnesota, and Illinois should be your targets, with NU as a reach.

Your poor grades + military straightening you out + great grades and 170, on the face of it, should be a lot more compelling than adcoms find it. I had nearly the same story last cycle--two quarters of F's, 4 years of infantry, 3 years of great grades and a 170--and I performed very much in line with how my numbers, by themselves, suggested I would. If you have any specific questions PM me, and I'd be glad to answer.

You do have one thing going for you: why is the sky blue?

Rawlsian
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby Rawlsian » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:23 am

I wanted to add, if you can swing it, really shoot for Cornell and UM. Both law schools are free for veterans via the yellow ribbon.

whymeohgodno
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:43 pm

Rawlsian wrote:I wanted to add, if you can swing it, really shoot for Cornell and UM. Both law schools are free for veterans via the yellow ribbon.


OP has no chance though with that GPA.

Rawlsian
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby Rawlsian » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:21 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:I wanted to add, if you can swing it, really shoot for Cornell and UM. Both law schools are free for veterans via the yellow ribbon.


OP has no chance though with that GPA.


I agree, but I wanted to give an ups to Cornell and UM: everyone talks about how UVA loves vets, but Cornell and UM put their money where their mouth is.

Jeffro
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby Jeffro » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:46 pm

Rawlsian wrote:You do have one thing going for you: why is the sky blue?
Haha, good point. It's because God loves the Infantry...but what makes the grass grow? I'm happy to see a fellow enlisted Infantryman do so well (I looked at your profile on LSN). And just think that every 1SG and CSM swears there is nothing out there for you, so you might as well reenlist. I figured everything you mentioned would be the case, though, so I'm not holding any unrealistic expectations.

Rawlsian wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:I wanted to add, if you can swing it, really shoot for Cornell and UM. Both law schools are free for veterans via the yellow ribbon.


OP has no chance though with that GPA.


I agree, but I wanted to give an ups to Cornell and UM: everyone talks about how UVA loves vets, but Cornell and UM put their money where their mouth is.
I won't be applying to Cornell or UM, for the personal reasons I cited earlier, but I appreciate the sentiment.

For what it's worth to everyone, UVA just sent me a brief but polite rejection email. On a more positive note, I have gotten into to WUSTL and am "In Review" at Illinois since prior to Thanksgiving, so I should have a decision very soon. Thanks for the well wishes and honest advice from everyone so far.

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mrmangs
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby mrmangs » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:53 pm

If I may ask, are you dead set on law? And, are you dead set on the T14/T17? I think at least some schools are more holistic than a lot of people here tend to think, but there is no denying that quantitative factors matter a lot for law school applicants. I wish you the best and think, in an ideal world, you should have a great shot at the T14, but I can't claim to know your chances given your low GPA.

That said, if law is something you aren't 100% committed to, apply to B school. They will love your military and leadership experience, and business schools don't really care about low GPAs and/or low GMATs if the person has a good story and WE. You'd easily get into a T10 business school with a decent GMAT.

Jeffro
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby Jeffro » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:20 pm

mrmangs wrote:If I may ask, are you dead set on law? And, are you dead set on the T14/T17?
First, I am definitely dead set on law. I know the standards are very different for B school but the law is for me, not business. I wish it would be as easy for me to get into a T10 law school, as it might be for B school, but that's just something I have to accept.

Second, I'm not dead set on T14/T17, although obviously it would be nice. I'm currently considering significant (at least to me) offers from lower ranked schools that I realistically might attend. Prestige is great and all, but I'm pretty confident I will make sure I succeed no matter where I go. FYI, Biglaw is not for me nor anywhere in my consideration.

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mrmangs
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby mrmangs » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:29 pm

Jeffro wrote:
mrmangs wrote:If I may ask, are you dead set on law? And, are you dead set on the T14/T17?
First, I am definitely dead set on law. I know the standards are very different for B school but the law is for me, not business. I wish it would be as easy for me to get into a T10 law school, as it might be for B school, but that's just something I have to accept.

Second, I'm not dead set on T14/T17, although obviously it would be nice. I'm currently considering significant (at least to me) offers from lower ranked schools that I realistically might attend. Prestige is great and all, but I'm pretty confident I will make sure I succeed no matter where I go. FYI, Biglaw is not for me nor anywhere in my consideration.


Where does your interest in law lie? What do you want to be doing after law school?

Jeffro
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby Jeffro » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:02 pm

mrmangs wrote:Where does your interest in law lie? What do you want to be doing after law school?
PI in general is very high up there for me. Veterans Law is definitely a focus, but not necessarily the only thing I'm looking at, as criminal defense is just as appealing. I realize that those are different ends of the spectrum but I'm keeping myself open to most things.

09042014
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby 09042014 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:08 pm

Jeffro wrote:
mrmangs wrote:If I may ask, are you dead set on law? And, are you dead set on the T14/T17?
First, I am definitely dead set on law. I know the standards are very different for B school but the law is for me, not business. I wish it would be as easy for me to get into a T10 law school, as it might be for B school, but that's just something I have to accept.

Second, I'm not dead set on T14/T17, although obviously it would be nice. I'm currently considering significant (at least to me) offers from lower ranked schools that I realistically might attend. Prestige is great and all, but I'm pretty confident I will make sure I succeed no matter where I go. FYI, Biglaw is not for me nor anywhere in my consideration.


I think St. John's, or Brooklyn law might throw you a full ride, but probably on the condition of being near the top of the class.

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mrmangs
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby mrmangs » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:13 pm

Jeffro wrote:
mrmangs wrote:Where does your interest in law lie? What do you want to be doing after law school?
PI in general is very high up there for me. Veterans Law is definitely a focus, but not necessarily the only thing I'm looking at, as criminal defense is just as appealing. I realize that those are different ends of the spectrum but I'm keeping myself open to most things.


I don't know much about the latter, but from what I understand, PI is hard to snag, even within the T14. Might want to keep that in mind. In any case, best of luck to you. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful! (Cue people who know a lot more about this stuff giving advice.)

Btw, I mentioned before that I think at least some law schools (certainly not all) are more holistic than some people think. To add to that, I notice a lot of people parade around talking about how good their personal statements are because of the experience conveyed within them. You obviously have some interesting things to talk about, and that will help you. I would say, however, that I think a lot of people forget that how that message is conveyed is just as important, if not more so, than the message itself. And a lot of people cannot be objective about their own writing.

In other words, just because you have a compelling story doesn't necessarily matter if you can't write it in a compelling manner. If you can write well (and I think I read in an earlier post that you are a sexy man with good interviewing skills, which also helps in selling yourself, assuming the school relies on interviews), I really think you have a decent shot at least a couple T14 schools. Of course, you have to weigh any time spent within the context of a cycle that is getting later and later in the game (and maybe you've already submitted apps?).

Jeffro
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby Jeffro » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:53 pm

mrmangs wrote:I don't know much about the latter, but from what I understand, PI is hard to snag, even within the T14. Might want to keep that in mind. In any case, best of luck to you. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful! (Cue people who know a lot more about this stuff giving advice.)

Btw, I mentioned before that I think at least some law schools (certainly not all) are more holistic than some people think. To add to that, I notice a lot of people parade around talking about how good their personal statements are because of the experience conveyed within them. You obviously have some interesting things to talk about, and that will help you. I would say, however, that I think a lot of people forget that how that message is conveyed is just as important, if not more so, than the message itself. And a lot of people cannot be objective about their own writing.

In other words, just because you have a compelling story doesn't necessarily matter if you can't write it in a compelling manner. If you can write well (and I think I read in an earlier post that you are a sexy man with good interviewing skills, which also helps in selling yourself, assuming the school relies on interviews), I really think you have a decent shot at least a couple T14 schools. Of course, you have to weigh any time spent within the context of a cycle that is getting later and later in the game (and maybe you've already submitted apps?).
(1) Maybe I'm misunderstanding or I used the wrong acronym, but I have always thought Public Interest Law was easy to get into, although perhaps hard to get some sort of specialized scholarship/fellowship for.

(2) I couldn't agree more. I went through many revisions and reviews with a wide variety of writers, a professor, attorneys, etc., in order to not just think I had the most amazing PS ever because my story is interesting. It's hard to look past what you already perceive to be well done. There's always room for improvement, especially if it's based on a blunt assessment from an outside party.

(3) I have indeed submitted all of my apps already, most of them on the first day/week they were available. So over the next few weeks I will be able to find out and report just how accurate TLSers predictions have been. In fact I posted some law school decisions on this thread previously.

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Blindmelon
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:54 pm

Jeffro wrote:
mrmangs wrote:Where does your interest in law lie? What do you want to be doing after law school?
PI in general is very high up there for me. Veterans Law is definitely a focus, but not necessarily the only thing I'm looking at, as criminal defense is just as appealing. I realize that those are different ends of the spectrum but I'm keeping myself open to most things.


I've done veterans work in a legal setting - your military experience will help you in a huge way in that field. While your experience may not get you into a top top school (although congrats on WUSTL!!!), it will help a whole lot in the job search. Especially for government/veterans affairs work.

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fatduck
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby fatduck » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:38 pm

im_blue wrote:
FuManChusco wrote:
Blindc1rca wrote:i think OP might be surprised this cycle. i feel that TLSers can be overly pessimistic. This guy won a PURPLE HEART. Come on now.


not to be a total dick. I think OP is a badass and I hope he gets into a great school. Purple Hearts aren't all that rare though. at the end of they day it's still a 2.7/170. everyone is just being realistic.

+1. Not to diminish OP's accomplishments but according to wiki, there have been 42,000 Purple Hearts awarded for recent wars (Afghanistan + Iraq). With a GPA well under 3.0, an ED to NU or GULC is the only reasonable shot at a T14.


People do know that all you have to do to get a Purple Heart is get shot (or blown up), right? :P I'd be much more proud of a Bronze Star + V.
Last edited by fatduck on Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jeffro
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby Jeffro » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:28 pm

fatduck wrote:People do know that all you have to do to get a Purple Heart is get shot (or blown up), right? I'd be much more proud of a Bronze Star + V.

Anyway, this Purple Heart-wearing, 170/2.94 got waitlisted ED at UVA, and I'm considering NU and GULC really unlikely at this point (though GULC did request an interview). Congrats on WUSTL, OP, and good luck on your pending apps.
Yeah this thread quickly became about a Purple Heart. For what it's worth, I didn't say that was all I had to my name and only mentioned it in response to a question about my WE. My application, PS, etc. are not premised upon the fact that I have a Purple Heart. I think my more quantifiable credentials would go a longer way, but with me being rejected at UVA via RD already and you having been waitlisted via ED, I'm not holding my breath for drastic acceptances.

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flyingpanda
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby flyingpanda » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:54 am

In at GULC PT. Enjoy waterman.

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reasonable_man
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Re: 2.73/170...extreme vacationer...

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:46 am

Not much to contribut, other than to say that I second the advice regarding the op looking into other schools further down the charts that may/will offer him a full ride.

I also second Vanwinkle and many others on here in saying thank you for your service. If there were justice in the law school machine, more credit would be given to qualified servicemen/women.




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