Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

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PDaddy
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Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby PDaddy » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:02 am

http://www.usnewsuniversitydirectory.co ... mcid=52491

It appears that the poorer you are, the bigger the gap between financial need and awarded aid. I know this article mostly concerns entering freshmen, but I can't help thinking graduate admissions trends are similar. I could be wrong. Anyone have useful info on the topic?

bdubs
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby bdubs » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:49 am

There is no such thing as "financial need" for law school, you are expected to incur debt that you can repay (lol). The top the schools have LRAP to cover you if you choose to do public service.

Edit: I believe that most schools use a formula for the maximum amount of debt that you can incur. If you have no EFC and already have undergrad loans, you might qualify for need based financial aid. The idea is still that you should be able to repay a fixed amount of debt coming out of law school (~150-200K??)
Last edited by bdubs on Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:09 am

bdubs wrote:There is no such thing as "financial need" for law school, you are expected to incur debt that you can repay (lol). The top the schools have LRAP to cover you if you choose to do public service.


Thats just totally false. I'm a 2L at BU 164/3.8 non-URM and got 20k/year. Theres no way thats merit money, so it has be based on financial need. To get lots of $ in law school though it seems like you need to be pretty damn poor.

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im_blue
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby im_blue » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:48 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
bdubs wrote:There is no such thing as "financial need" for law school, you are expected to incur debt that you can repay (lol). The top the schools have LRAP to cover you if you choose to do public service.


Thats just totally false. I'm a 2L at BU 164/3.8 non-URM and got 20k/year. Theres no way thats merit money, so it has be based on financial need. To get lots of $ in law school though it seems like you need to be pretty damn poor.

Why not? BU's medians were 3.70/166 for your cycle, so maybe they paid for high GPAs.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:50 pm

im_blue wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
bdubs wrote:There is no such thing as "financial need" for law school, you are expected to incur debt that you can repay (lol). The top the schools have LRAP to cover you if you choose to do public service.


Thats just totally false. I'm a 2L at BU 164/3.8 non-URM and got 20k/year. Theres no way thats merit money, so it has be based on financial need. To get lots of $ in law school though it seems like you need to be pretty damn poor.

Why not? BU's medians were 3.70/166 for your cycle, so maybe they paid for high GPAs.


20k a year seems absurd though considering he is well below their median lsat (probably around their 25th for lsat)

bdubs
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby bdubs » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:16 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
bdubs wrote:There is no such thing as "financial need" for law school, you are expected to incur debt that you can repay (lol). The top the schools have LRAP to cover you if you choose to do public service.


Thats just totally false. I'm a 2L at BU 164/3.8 non-URM and got 20k/year. Theres no way thats merit money, so it has be based on financial need. To get lots of $ in law school though it seems like you need to be pretty damn poor.


Question: Were you accepted to other schools? Did you receive financial aid packages from them? Did they all include need based financial aid? Were the magnitudes similar across schools?

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Blindmelon
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:24 pm

Yea... 20k/year at BU, 15k/year at Fordham, 15k/year at GW, 8k/year + instate at WM.

All no GPA requirements. My numbers are certainly not good enough for that.

bdubs
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby bdubs » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:35 pm

Blindmelon wrote:Yea... 20k/year at BU, 15k/year at Fordham, 15k/year at GW, 8k/year + instate at WM.

All no GPA requirements. My numbers are certainly not good enough for that.


I stand corrected, that sounds pretty consistent with need based aid. Contradicts most of what I have read. I am still probably not a candidate though.

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PDaddy
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby PDaddy » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:05 am

bdubs wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Yea... 20k/year at BU, 15k/year at Fordham, 15k/year at GW, 8k/year + instate at WM.

All no GPA requirements. My numbers are certainly not good enough for that.


I stand corrected, that sounds pretty consistent with need based aid. Contradicts most of what I have read. I am still probably not a candidate though.


I wouldn't say that. The covers have been pulled back, and the schools are bending over backwards to be fair. Most of them just haven't devised a way to do it. I will say this: it's complicated at both the UG and grad level by the arms races for the "best" students. Schools have to spend their money there first, and try to cover it up so they don't look like they're participating in it. Makes it hard for us to figure out the method(s) to their madness.

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brosef stalin
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby brosef stalin » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:45 am

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Last edited by brosef stalin on Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:03 am

While some schools give aid, it seems that most don't.

Nor should they.

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prismz
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby prismz » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:11 am

Desert Fox wrote:While some schools give aid, it seems that most don't.

Nor should they.


yeah, let's keep the riff-raff out of our schools

09042014
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:19 am

prismz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:While some schools give aid, it seems that most don't.

Nor should they.


yeah, let's keep the riff-raff out of our schools


The majority of law students don't get any help for law school. There are loans that cover the entire cost. Every student is an adult.

The need aid is just coming from the tuition they are charging the majority of the middle class students and it all comes from loans.

Need aid makes sense for undergrad, where it's custom for parents to pay, and there aren't federal loans for the cost. But for law school. Fuck that.

If you want to be a lawyer, pay for it like the vast majority of us do.

Kretzy
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby Kretzy » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:28 am

People can get $40,000/year in grant/need-based scholarships at HYS. It's not incredibly common, but many folks still get a significant amount (around 15-20,000 a year). Each school seems to have slightly different formulas, but they top out just below full tuition grants (obviously cut back in future years by summer firm jobs).

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Blindmelon
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:50 am

Desert Fox wrote:
prismz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:While some schools give aid, it seems that most don't.

Nor should they.


yeah, let's keep the riff-raff out of our schools


The majority of law students don't get any help for law school. There are loans that cover the entire cost. Every student is an adult.

The need aid is just coming from the tuition they are charging the majority of the middle class students and it all comes from loans.

Need aid makes sense for undergrad, where it's custom for parents to pay, and there aren't federal loans for the cost. But for law school. Fuck that.

If you want to be a lawyer, pay for it like the vast majority of us do.


You would be surprised on how many people's parents/grandparents either pay for everything or a significant chunk of it. I couldn't get family financial support even if I wanted it. Also, I guess it helps for diversity - don't want a class full of only upper-middle class students.

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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby JOThompson » Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:10 am

Blindmelon wrote:
bdubs wrote:There is no such thing as "financial need" for law school, you are expected to incur debt that you can repay (lol). The top the schools have LRAP to cover you if you choose to do public service.


Thats just totally false. I'm a 2L at BU 164/3.8 non-URM and got 20k/year. Theres no way thats merit money, so it has be based on financial need. To get lots of $ in law school though it seems like you need to be pretty damn poor.

This. I got three offers (50% to 100% tuition) at schools where I was below median or 25th LSAT. No class rank requirements on the scholarships either. Certainly not attributable to my stats.

09042014
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:16 am

Blindmelon wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
prismz wrote:
yeah, let's keep the riff-raff out of our schools


The majority of law students don't get any help for law school. There are loans that cover the entire cost. Every student is an adult.

The need aid is just coming from the tuition they are charging the majority of the middle class students and it all comes from loans.

Need aid makes sense for undergrad, where it's custom for parents to pay, and there aren't federal loans for the cost. But for law school. Fuck that.

If you want to be a lawyer, pay for it like the vast majority of us do.


You would be surprised on how many people's parents/grandparents either pay for everything or a significant chunk of it. I couldn't get family financial support even if I wanted it. Also, I guess it helps for diversity - don't want a class full of only upper-middle class students.


Of course some pay for it, but most aren't getting any help. I couldn't get family support either but my parents make a decent amount of money. Most people at my school are from a middle class background, why subsidize the ones whose parents make 40K out of the tuition of the one's who parents make 100K? Neither are getting any help.

At schools like HYS where the schools don't need tuition money because of massive endowments, fine who cares. But at most schools every dollar spent is one that could be spent at reducing tuition for everyone.

Damn near every law student in America has a bachelors degree. They should be treated like adults, not minors. The loans are good enough.

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homestyle28
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Re: Who REALLY gets the most financial aid?

Postby homestyle28 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:40 am

Desert Fox wrote:Damn near every law student in America has a bachelors degree. They should be treated like adults, not minors. The loans are good enough.


I'm more or less with DF here. No one needs to go to LS, one chooses it.




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