2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Not sure where your numbers will get you? Dying to know where you stand? Come have your palms read by your fellow posters!
User avatar
Patriot1208
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:47 pm

taxguy wrote:Resolutepear notes,"I want to say that ITE, anybody under a 3.5GPA/165 should skip law school *UNLESSSSSSSS* they are being paid by their employer to go.
Otherwise, wait the market out. Law school will always be there.
That's my take on it, at least."

Response: I love when folks give opinions without knowing you or your goals or your connections.

When I graduated from a NON T 15 law school, getting a job even then was tough. Yet, I know many successful lawyers who did NOT go to a top 20 law school. In fact, if you get a list of the top 100 super lawyers, check out where they want to law school. Many did NOT attend a top 15 law school.

I have been in law for over 30 years and did not go to a T15 law school.
Again, a lot depends on your goals. If you don't want to attend big law firm there are other opportunities;however, you will need to be agressive and smart about your job search. I would NOT automatically asssume that earning less than a 165 on the LSAT will doom your career unless your sole goal is to work for a top 20 law firm. Even then it would be possible with top grades and some moxy.

Bottom line: Do some research and judge for yourself. Just make sure that you aren't going to law school for no reason. You should have a good plan as to what you will do with your legal education and have a good reason other than you have a major that isn't vocationally oriented.

I am sure I will get flamed for this,but I do know what I am talking about.


So, you are in law, and you don't realize that the past success of some lawyers is completely unrepresentative of the possibilities for current law school grads?

User avatar
theskippa10
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:01 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby theskippa10 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:57 pm

The only school in that list that does remotely well in that list is Suffolk, and they wouldn't even consider you

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby romothesavior » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:01 pm

Chants wrote:The fact that you say you want to go to law school but did not take the time to study or practice for the LSAT is mind blowing. If this is what you want to do as a career, you need to invest the time.

Of all the points made in this thread, this one might be the best of them all. OP, if you are serious about this as a profession, you need to study HARD for the LSAT. You need to spend months preparing for this thing. Getting a better LSAT and going to a better school is infinitely easier than doing well on your law school exams and transferring to a better school. And if you weren't willing to put in the effort on the LSAT, what makes you think that you will buckle down and do well in law school?

Also, ignore this taxguy. His advice is misguided and dangerous for any prospective applicant to follow. I am sure we could all find a few graduates of T3/T4 schools with decent jobs. The key thing to remember, however, is that they are the exception to the rule, and rare ones at that. The overwhelming number of graduates of the schools like the ones he suggested are swimming in debt with no job prospects. Most students at tier 1 schools are freaking out about finding jobs. If Northwestern grads are moving back with their parents(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704866204575224350917718446.html), how do you think students at crappy schools like John Marshall are doing?

You need to seriously examine this decision to be a lawyer and figure out if this is what you want to do. Go take a look at the employment forum to see just how bleak things are. If you really want to go, then you need to improve your LSAT score by about 20 points. Your numbers are really, really bad, and unless you can improve your LSAT dramatically, I wouldn't even think about going.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby Grizz » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:21 pm

Romo said all the things I am waaaay too lazy to type.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby rayiner » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:33 pm

taxguy wrote:I have been in law for over 30 years and did not go to a T15 law school. I graduated 30 years ago when the legal market was completely different and don't know what I'm talking about.


taxguy wrote:Again, a lot depends on your goals. If you don't want to attend big law firm there are other opportunities;however, you will need to be agressive and smart about your job search. I would NOT automatically asssume that earning less than a 165 on the LSAT will doom your career unless your sole goal is to work for a top 20 law firm. Even then it would be possible with top grades and some moxy.


I spoke to a partner at a well-known DC law firm a couple of times this summer (he did a lot of work in a practice area I have a strong interest in). He told me to not worry so much about getting a big firm job my 2L summer because my 3L summer is really what matters. :?

Most practicing lawyers have no idea what legal recruiting looks like these days and give terrible advice. My friend was talking to a judge who was surprised that Northwestern put such an emphasis on post-undergraudate work experience. Said that he'd encourage his kid to go straight from UG to LS. Meanwhile, people who never worked before law school are notably underperforming their classmates when it comes to OCI.

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7256
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby beach_terror » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:35 pm

rayiner wrote:I spoke to a partner at a well-known DC law firm a couple of times this summer (he did a lot of work in a practice area I have a strong interest in). He told me to not worry so much about getting a big firm job my 2L summer because my 3L summer is really what matters. :?


That doesn't even make sense. Isn't 3L summer just "hey fuckhead, find a full-time job"?

User avatar
Veyron
Posts: 3598
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:50 am

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby Veyron » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:43 pm

rayiner wrote:
taxguy wrote:I have been in law for over 30 years and did not go to a T15 law school. I graduated 30 years ago when the legal market was completely different and don't know what I'm talking about.


taxguy wrote:Again, a lot depends on your goals. If you don't want to attend big law firm there are other opportunities;however, you will need to be agressive and smart about your job search. I would NOT automatically asssume that earning less than a 165 on the LSAT will doom your career unless your sole goal is to work for a top 20 law firm. Even then it would be possible with top grades and some moxy.


I spoke to a partner at a well-known DC law firm a couple of times this summer (he did a lot of work in a practice area I have a strong interest in). He told me to not worry so much about getting a big firm job my 2L summer because my 3L summer is really what matters. :?

Most practicing lawyers have no idea what legal recruiting looks like these days and give terrible advice. My friend was talking to a judge who was surprised that Northwestern put such an emphasis on post-undergraudate work experience. Said that he'd encourage his kid to go straight from UG to LS. Meanwhile, people who never worked before law school are notably underperforming their classmates when it comes to OCI.


Would you say that a year of work experience makes any difference at OCI?

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby rayiner » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:58 pm

beach_terror wrote:
rayiner wrote:I spoke to a partner at a well-known DC law firm a couple of times this summer (he did a lot of work in a practice area I have a strong interest in). He told me to not worry so much about getting a big firm job my 2L summer because my 3L summer is really what matters. :?


That doesn't even make sense. Isn't 3L summer just "hey fuckhead, find a full-time job"?


It didn't used to be. The 2L SA -> full-time job thing is actually relatively recent. Back in the day 2L was just another summer job, and you were hired at a firm at graduation.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby rayiner » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:58 pm

Veyron wrote:
rayiner wrote:
taxguy wrote:I have been in law for over 30 years and did not go to a T15 law school. I graduated 30 years ago when the legal market was completely different and don't know what I'm talking about.


taxguy wrote:Again, a lot depends on your goals. If you don't want to attend big law firm there are other opportunities;however, you will need to be agressive and smart about your job search. I would NOT automatically asssume that earning less than a 165 on the LSAT will doom your career unless your sole goal is to work for a top 20 law firm. Even then it would be possible with top grades and some moxy.


I spoke to a partner at a well-known DC law firm a couple of times this summer (he did a lot of work in a practice area I have a strong interest in). He told me to not worry so much about getting a big firm job my 2L summer because my 3L summer is really what matters. :?

Most practicing lawyers have no idea what legal recruiting looks like these days and give terrible advice. My friend was talking to a judge who was surprised that Northwestern put such an emphasis on post-undergraudate work experience. Said that he'd encourage his kid to go straight from UG to LS. Meanwhile, people who never worked before law school are notably underperforming their classmates when it comes to OCI.


Would you say that a year of work experience makes any difference at OCI?


Big difference for anyone without top 10% grades. The people I know without WE underperformed their numbers across the board.

User avatar
Veyron
Posts: 3598
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:50 am

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby Veyron » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:22 am

rayiner wrote:
Veyron wrote:
rayiner wrote:
taxguy wrote:I have been in law for over 30 years and did not go to a T15 law school. I graduated 30 years ago when the legal market was completely different and don't know what I'm talking about.


taxguy wrote:Again, a lot depends on your goals. If you don't want to attend big law firm there are other opportunities;however, you will need to be agressive and smart about your job search. I would NOT automatically asssume that earning less than a 165 on the LSAT will doom your career unless your sole goal is to work for a top 20 law firm. Even then it would be possible with top grades and some moxy.


I spoke to a partner at a well-known DC law firm a couple of times this summer (he did a lot of work in a practice area I have a strong interest in). He told me to not worry so much about getting a big firm job my 2L summer because my 3L summer is really what matters. :?

Most practicing lawyers have no idea what legal recruiting looks like these days and give terrible advice. My friend was talking to a judge who was surprised that Northwestern put such an emphasis on post-undergraudate work experience. Said that he'd encourage his kid to go straight from UG to LS. Meanwhile, people who never worked before law school are notably underperforming their classmates when it comes to OCI.


Would you say that a year of work experience makes any difference at OCI?


Big difference for anyone without top 10% grades. The people I know without WE underperformed their numbers across the board.


Sweet, I would have thought that it would be 2 or more. Bodes well for me I guess (or as well as anything bodes ITE).

User avatar
ResolutePear
Posts: 8614
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:07 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby ResolutePear » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:36 am

Let me just put this out there:

A member of this forum got royally fucked yesterday - fired on the same day for a lame excuse that had no relevance to his performance, attitude, etc..

Prepare to get royally fucked.

If it works out for you, count your goddamn blessings because it's not a sure thing.

If you want security in a professional-degree, go for a MD/DO.

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7256
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby beach_terror » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:46 am

ResolutePear wrote:Let me just put this out there:

A member of this forum got royally fucked yesterday - fired on the same day for a lame excuse that had no relevance to his performance, attitude, etc..

Prepare to get royally fucked.

If it works out for you, count your goddamn blessings because it's not a sure thing.

If you want security in a professional-degree, go for a MD/DO.


Elaborate? Who?

User avatar
ResolutePear
Posts: 8614
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:07 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby ResolutePear » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:50 am

beach_terror wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:Let me just put this out there:

A member of this forum got royally fucked yesterday - fired on the same day for a lame excuse that had no relevance to his performance, attitude, etc..

Prepare to get royally fucked.

If it works out for you, count your goddamn blessings because it's not a sure thing.

If you want security in a professional-degree, go for a MD/DO.


Elaborate? Who?


I'm not going to - if he wants to out himself he can do it himself.

At any rate... is it not a believable story?

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7256
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby beach_terror » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:00 am

ResolutePear wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:Let me just put this out there:

A member of this forum got royally fucked yesterday - fired on the same day for a lame excuse that had no relevance to his performance, attitude, etc..

Prepare to get royally fucked.

If it works out for you, count your goddamn blessings because it's not a sure thing.

If you want security in a professional-degree, go for a MD/DO.


Elaborate? Who?


I'm not going to - if he wants to out himself he can do it himself.

At any rate... is it not a believable story?


Oh no it totally is, I just thought I missed epic forum drama.

jeffspayne
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:54 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby jeffspayne » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:59 pm

I've had similar problems, a low UGPA and a 152 LSAT. I got into a few schools but nowhere I was all that happy about. I don't want to end up with paying back debt the rest of my life so I decided not to go to law school unless I could get into somewhere I was happy with. It's hard working within such an inflexible system. Also, I'm not the type who would do well with my own practice in a small town. I'm just not all that good with networking, etc. On a positive note, I did much better on the GRE, so that will give me more options to choose from. Good luck!

msu1077
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:27 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby msu1077 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:29 pm

I really think most of the people that are responding to this post have a seriously skewd understanding of what happens after you graduate. I have worked as a paralegal for 7 years, and for the last three years I worked for an insurance defense firm in Las Vegas where the managing partner graduated from Phoenix School of Law. Yes, this guy probably pulled in $180k a year, and he graduated from a school that is just barely hanging on to its accreditation.

As long as the school is ABA approved you'll be fine in the "real world". I don't know where these kids get off talking about all law schools outside of T-14 as being useless. I would guess that they are mostly arrogant, spoiled-rotten brats that have no idea what life will be like when they turn 30.

If the law is your passion, then put yourself out there with the UGPA and LSAT that you have and if you aren't accepted this year, try again next year with the LSAT after taking a class. Good luck, and don't let these naysayers discourage your interest.

Good luck!

User avatar
Patriot1208
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby Patriot1208 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:47 pm

msu1077 wrote:I really think most of the people that are responding to this post have a seriously skewd understanding of what happens after you graduate. I have worked as a paralegal for 7 years, and for the last three years I worked for an insurance defense firm in Las Vegas where the managing partner graduated from Phoenix School of Law. Yes, this guy probably pulled in $180k a year, and he graduated from a school that is just barely hanging on to its accreditation.

As long as the school is ABA approved you'll be fine in the "real world". I don't know where these kids get off talking about all law schools outside of T-14 as being useless. I would guess that they are mostly arrogant, spoiled-rotten brats that have no idea what life will be like when they turn 30.

If the law is your passion, then put yourself out there with the UGPA and LSAT that you have and if you aren't accepted this year, try again next year with the LSAT after taking a class. Good luck, and don't let these naysayers discourage your interest.

Good luck!


Awesome
1) I notice you refused to actually read and/or comprehend past posts

2) bump an old, tired, and dead thread

3) and making a logical fallacy concerning a simple anecdote

You did all of these stupid things in one post, congrats.

whymeohgodno
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:49 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
msu1077 wrote:I really think most of the people that are responding to this post have a seriously skewd understanding of what happens after you graduate. I have worked as a paralegal for 7 years, and for the last three years I worked for an insurance defense firm in Las Vegas where the managing partner graduated from Phoenix School of Law. Yes, this guy probably pulled in $180k a year, and he graduated from a school that is just barely hanging on to its accreditation.

As long as the school is ABA approved you'll be fine in the "real world". I don't know where these kids get off talking about all law schools outside of T-14 as being useless. I would guess that they are mostly arrogant, spoiled-rotten brats that have no idea what life will be like when they turn 30.

If the law is your passion, then put yourself out there with the UGPA and LSAT that you have and if you aren't accepted this year, try again next year with the LSAT after taking a class. Good luck, and don't let these naysayers discourage your interest.

Good luck!


Awesome
1) I notice you refused to actually read and/or comprehend past posts

2) bump an old, tired, and dead thread

3) and making a logical fallacy concerning a simple anecdote

You did all of these stupid things in one post, congrats.


To be fair about 99% of TLS users do this.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby Grizz » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:51 pm

msu1077 wrote:I really think most of the people that are responding to this post have a seriously skewd understanding of what happens after you graduate. I have worked as a paralegal for 7 years, and for the last three years I worked for an insurance defense firm in Las Vegas where the managing partner graduated from Phoenix School of Law. Yes, this guy probably pulled in $180k a year, and he graduated from a school that is just barely hanging on to its accreditation.

As long as the school is ABA approved you'll be fine in the "real world". I don't know where these kids get off talking about all law schools outside of T-14 as being useless. I would guess that they are mostly arrogant, spoiled-rotten brats that have no idea what life will be like when they turn 30.

If the law is your passion, then put yourself out there with the UGPA and LSAT that you have and if you aren't accepted this year, try again next year with the LSAT after taking a class. Good luck, and don't let these naysayers discourage your interest.

Good luck!


Lol no the legal market was incredibly different when that one dude graduated. And lawl school cost much less then, too.

I wouldn't characterize going to a T14 school to give yourself the best chance to pay off the your debt in a timely fashion as a spoiled attitude.

Have you read the stories of people who do to elite law schools and don't get legal jobs AT ALL? Where the hell have you been since 2008?

UCLAtransfer
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby UCLAtransfer » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:54 pm

msu1077 wrote:If the law is your passion, then put yourself out there with the UGPA and LSAT that you have and if you aren't accepted this year, try again next year with the LSAT after taking a class. Good luck, and don't let these naysayers discourage your interest.


And then, if you are royally f***ed when you graduate with $150,000+ in debt and can't even manage to find a job that pays $30k a year out of your TTTT, just put some of that passion in an envelope and send it as payment on your student loans. No biggie.

msu1077's advice, like taxguy's, is VERY dangerous. People like this must just have NO idea what it is like to have six figures of crippling debt hanging over your head in an such an abysmal legal job market.

I am graduating this year well within the top 10% of my class, solid firm job (meaning actual prospects to pay back loans), and if I could go back and do it again, I don't know that I would have gone to law school. This from someone who has wanted to be a lawyer practically my entire life. Despite all of my hard work, it took LUCK to end up where I am ITE. Sometimes you have to look at more than what you are passionate about and just look at what is practical for a moment.

/rant

User avatar
Dotson525
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:40 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby Dotson525 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:05 pm

Some of the schools listed below will not admit someone with a GPA of 2.27 and LSAT of 151. I personally know that Western New England School of Law will accept someone with an LSAT of 151. However, the GPA is too low. In certain circumstances they will accept individuals with a GPA and LSAT slightly lower than median. However, they are placed upon "probation". Meaning, they may not be accepted under the full time program. They must choose between part time morning or part time evening. Also I would would research the school's website as well. Certain schools clearly state that if one has a GPA under a certain point, please do not apply. In those cases no matter how high score on the LSAT there is a good chance you won't be admitted. I would suggest retaking the LSAT. Also, if there were any special circumstances that contributed to your GPA, that should "somewhat" addressed within your personal statement.





taxguy wrote:Jimriver, There are a number of law schools that could take you with your stats. Bypassing the question of whether you should go to these, here are some good suggestions:

John Marshall Law school in both Atlanta and Chicago, Thomas Cooley Law school in Michigan ( four locations), Ohio Northern Law School , Western New England Law School, Suffolk Law School, Florida Coastal Law School, Barry and Nova Law School, University of Baltimore might take you, Ava Maria Law school, and University of Dayton among many others.

As for whether you should go to these, some of them are actually quite good and well- respected in their areas. A lot depends on your goals. If your main goal is big law, it will be tough to get a job attending any of these schools unless you are in the top 5% of the school and preferably in the top 5-10 people. If you have lower aspirations, any of these can do the job. If you just want a legal background but don't want to practice law per se, any of these will do the trick.

Personally, I would try to retake the LSAT in order to get 160+;however, this is much easier said then done. Many posters would suggest that you can "easily" get over 160 and even 170 with enough work. I really don't think that this is true;however, it won't hurt you to try. Practicing for it really can help a fair amount.

User avatar
MTal
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby MTal » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:09 pm

OP: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1944515

Edit: and 90 % of posters on this board.

User avatar
megaTTTron
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:12 pm

UCLAtransfer wrote:
msu1077 wrote:If the law is your passion, then put yourself out there with the UGPA and LSAT that you have and if you aren't accepted this year, try again next year with the LSAT after taking a class. Good luck, and don't let these naysayers discourage your interest.


And then, if you are royally f***ed when you graduate with $150,000+ in debt and can't even manage to find a job that pays $30k a year out of your TTTT, just put some of that passion in an envelope and send it as payment on your student loans. No biggie.

msu1077's advice, like taxguy's, is VERY dangerous. People like this must just have NO idea what it is like to have six figures of crippling debt hanging over your head in an such an abysmal legal job market.

I am graduating this year well within the top 10% of my class, solid firm job (meaning actual prospects to pay back loans), and if I could go back and do it again, I don't know that I would have gone to law school. This from someone who has wanted to be a lawyer practically my entire life. Despite all of my hard work, it took LUCK to end up where I am ITE. Sometimes you have to look at more than what you are passionate about and just look at what is practical for a moment.

/rant


+ a billion.

User avatar
beachbum
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby beachbum » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:04 pm

msu1077 wrote:I really think most of the people that are responding to this post have a seriously skewd understanding of what happens after you graduate. I have worked as a paralegal for 7 years, and for the last three years I worked for an insurance defense firm in Las Vegas where the managing partner graduated from Phoenix School of Law. Yes, this guy probably pulled in $180k a year, and he graduated from a school that is just barely hanging on to its accreditation.

As long as the school is ABA approved you'll be fine in the "real world". I don't know where these kids get off talking about all law schools outside of T-14 as being useless. I would guess that they are mostly arrogant, spoiled-rotten brats that have no idea what life will be like when they turn 30.

If the law is your passion, then put yourself out there with the UGPA and LSAT that you have and if you aren't accepted this year, try again next year with the LSAT after taking a class. Good luck, and don't let these naysayers discourage your interest.

Good luck!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmxfLuNto

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: 2.27 GPA and 151 LSAT

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:09 pm

jimriver wrote: i have no doubt i would succeed in law school if i put in the effort


You have a lot of confidence in your ability to succeed academically despite the fact that all the evidence you've provided suggests exactly the opposite.




Return to “What are my chances?”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 3 guests