Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

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johnno
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Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby johnno » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:46 pm

It seems like the main job of a lot of the regulars on here is to try and thoroughly discourage anyone (besides themselves, I suppose) from applying to law school, mainly on the grounds that there are NO jobs in law anymore and will never, EVER be again. Yet you hear this kind of apocalyptic speech from people involved in every single sector of the economy these days, with the exception of health care. Since not everyone can work taking care of the aging baby boomers, however, ambitious people are going to continue to look for jobs in the other prestige professions such as law, whether they are told to or not. Despite this protracted downturn, jobs being outsourced, etc., don't you think there will be sufficient jobs available in law for those who have enough ambition and passion to work at them, at obscene salaries or maybe a little less than what we were used to? Maybe all the hemming and hawing is just that you "experts" are afraid of a little competition?

...Just a thought.

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Grizz
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby Grizz » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:49 pm

Most of law is not prestigious.

Also 45,000 law grads a year compete for 30,000 law jobs.

HTH.

The Real Jack McCoy
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby The Real Jack McCoy » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:52 pm

Retake or ED to UVA. If you have work experience, ED to NU.

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Grizz
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby Grizz » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:54 pm

The Real Jack McCoy wrote:Retake or ED to UVA. If you have work experience, ED to NU.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:59 pm

Yes, the majority of people in law school don't have ambition or passion. Therefore, you and the few others will easily get jobs. The rest of us trying to get by on the bare minimum effort and lack of passion will be the jobless ones.

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rayiner
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby rayiner » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:16 pm

LOL.

During the boom there was 30,000 legal jobs (many of them low-paying, but legal jobs nonetheless) for 45,000 JD graduates each year. Now, there are maybe half as many legal jobs, and just as many graduates. You do the math.

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General Tso
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby General Tso » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:29 pm

rayiner wrote:LOL.

During the boom there was 30,000 legal jobs (many of them low-paying, but legal jobs nonetheless) for 45,000 JD graduates each year. Now, there are maybe half as many legal jobs, and just as many graduates. You do the math.


It's more or less true. One mega-firm that came to our OCI told me that in the mid 00's, they were hiring 60 summer associates per year. This year they were hiring 6-8.

OP, you can't ask us to tell you what the industry will be like 3-5 years from now. Our entire economy is at a crossroads, so you either take the gamble or you don't. All you can do is either improve your odds at a "prestigious" legal job by attending a T14 school, or plan on small firm work and try to get a JD as cheaply as possible.

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dood
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby dood » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:44 pm

...
Last edited by dood on Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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General Tso
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby General Tso » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:47 pm

dood wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:Yes, the majority of people in law school don't have ambition or passion. Therefore, you and the few others will easily get jobs. The rest of us trying to get by on the bare minimum effort and lack of passion will be the jobless ones.


he says this sarcastically but it's 100% true. actually most people in life dont have ambition or passion, at least not enough to really be successful. but in the legal field everybody feels entitled to success because theyve made it past a lot of others and think a JD from a T14 will compensate for a lack of talent or hard work.


doesn't it? I am of the opinion that firms don't really care about talent or hard work. And why should they? 99% of making money is how well you market yourself. Prestige seems to be all potential clients care about when selecting which firm to hire.

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dood
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby dood » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:50 pm

...
Last edited by dood on Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Veyron
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby Veyron » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:56 pm

General Tso wrote:
dood wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:Yes, the majority of people in law school don't have ambition or passion. Therefore, you and the few others will easily get jobs. The rest of us trying to get by on the bare minimum effort and lack of passion will be the jobless ones.


he says this sarcastically but it's 100% true. actually most people in life dont have ambition or passion, at least not enough to really be successful. but in the legal field everybody feels entitled to success because theyve made it past a lot of others and think a JD from a T14 will compensate for a lack of talent or hard work.


doesn't it? I am of the opinion that firms don't really care about talent or hard work. And why should they? 99% of making money is how well you market yourself. Prestige seems to be all potential clients care about when selecting which firm to hire.


*Oh snap dizzle, does this mean I can start slacking now?* Yippee, pass me a beer gentlemen!

whymeohgodno
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby whymeohgodno » Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:42 pm

I'm pretty sure this is the mindset of everyone attending a TTT school

mst
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby mst » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:39 pm

Yes, OP. You've got it... There's a huge conspiracy on TLS to get people to stop applying so that we can have all the "jobs" to ourselves.

Take us to jail.

Seriously, you think your decision to apply is going to have an impact on us??? There's 30,000 other people willing to take your place at University of Shitlaw. Your decision to attend won't change that...

Just grow up and take the hard facts for what they are:

1- There are a lot more jobs than lawyers. 2 -There are a lot of people in law school that are not finding jobs. 3 - There are a lot of people finding jobs that are paying a substantial amount less than they expected when they signed up for law school.

TLS can't do anything about #1 regardless of our ability to create imaginary conspiracies. However, we can prepare students to prepare for 2 and 3. We don't WANT you to not go to the University of Shitlaw. We honestly don't care. We just want to make sure you're not on this board in 3 years bitching about how terrible the economy is. Telling you the truth now is how we avoid that.

ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: Apocalyptic views on the market for JDs

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:42 am

General Tso wrote:
rayiner wrote:LOL.

During the boom there was 30,000 legal jobs (many of them low-paying, but legal jobs nonetheless) for 45,000 JD graduates each year. Now, there are maybe half as many legal jobs, and just as many graduates. You do the math.


It's more or less true. One mega-firm that came to our OCI told me that in the mid 00's, they were hiring 60 summer associates per year. This year they were hiring 6-8.


It might actually be worse than that when you consider that there's been contraction or completely flat expansion in the legal market for going on three years now. And those people who haven't lost their jobs (i.e. job is eliminated, no one gets it) are disinclined to leave them because their savings have been devastated (making that paycheck important).

That's not touching the question of the year+ deferrals, which really should not count as "job" or "employed at graduation" for reasons that anyone who has taken contract law or employment law can understand.

And of course, if you want to be really depressing, you can break out the "jobs" that are underemployment to the point that you're not clearing your personal and/or your firm expenses with your JD. Most people would consider that a bad outcome.

It sucks out there right now.




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