What are my chances?

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mrwarre85
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What are my chances?

Postby mrwarre85 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:41 am

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Last edited by mrwarre85 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:40 am, edited 5 times in total.

whymeohgodno
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby whymeohgodno » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:53 am

Top 25? I doubt it.

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kalvano
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby kalvano » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:12 pm

2.81 will effectively lock you out of most of the T50.

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Jack Smirks
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby Jack Smirks » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:48 pm

kalvano wrote:2.81 will effectively lock you out of most of the T50.

Srsly? Even with the NA urm?

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kalvano
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby kalvano » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:35 pm

naterj wrote:
kalvano wrote:2.81 will effectively lock you out of most of the T50.

Srsly? Even with the NA urm?


No expert on URM admissions, but I don't think NA is near as big a boost as AA.

JakeL
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby JakeL » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:08 pm

kalvano wrote:
naterj wrote:
kalvano wrote:2.81 will effectively lock you out of most of the T50.

Srsly? Even with the NA urm?


No expert on URM admissions, but I don't think NA is near as big a boost as AA.


Ugh, I would expect the opposite of this. I haven't seen the statistics, but do you thing that AAs are more underrepresented than NAs? It seems really unlikely to me.

Regardless, it sounds like applicant should work a year or two before applying. Maybe try to distance from self from education because that GPA is pretty bad, and the addendum is going to make it sound worse.

With URM, I think there's a shot at some T50 schools. Retake LSAT if higher score is possible.

xyzzzzzzzz
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:14 pm

affected, not effected.

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Patriot1208
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:28 pm

JakeL wrote:
kalvano wrote:
naterj wrote:
kalvano wrote:2.81 will effectively lock you out of most of the T50.

Srsly? Even with the NA urm?


No expert on URM admissions, but I don't think NA is near as big a boost as AA.


Ugh, I would expect the opposite of this. I haven't seen the statistics, but do you thing that AAs are more underrepresented than NAs? It seems really unlikely to me.

Regardless, it sounds like applicant should work a year or two before applying. Maybe try to distance from self from education because that GPA is pretty bad, and the addendum is going to make it sound worse.

With URM, I think there's a shot at some T50 schools. Retake LSAT if higher score is possible.


This is just anecdotal, but the common attitude suggests that AA's get much more of a boost than any other kind of URM. Although I'm sure there are more African American people than truly Native American people in law school, African Americans may still be more underrepresented in proportion with population.

mrwarre85
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby mrwarre85 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:31 pm

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Last edited by mrwarre85 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:38 pm

NA will help, but not as much as a higher LSAT score...

Basically almost all schools aren't going to care too much about the difference between 2 scores or 3 scores on the LSAT. If you think you can improve another 3 to 6 points (or even have a shot at that) I'd definitely recommend retaking.

Also, 2.80 won't lock you out of T50 if you are NA... in fact if you get into the 170's I'd say you have a fair shot at some T14 schools.

sporkdevil
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby sporkdevil » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:34 pm

kalvano wrote:
naterj wrote:
kalvano wrote:2.81 will effectively lock you out of most of the T50.

Srsly? Even with the NA urm?


No expert on URM admissions, but I don't think NA is near as big a boost as AA.


Disagree 1000%. How many schools have Native Americans?

Just about jack shit of them.

One of my professors talked about his time as a admin at a T14, and specifically pointed out a Native American (he teaches Native American law as well... so he may be biased) and said, "Bring this person in."

So you have a 163.5 lsat and some shitty-ish GPA. That doesn't take away your URM status, and you have to know that plenty of colleges will "pay" for you with either scholarship or either by pulling you in on the low side. The number of native americans in law school is minimal, and schools will work to get you in. I would think you have very legitimate chances in the top 25, but note that its been a few years since I applied to law school.

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Patriot1208
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:17 am

sporkdevil wrote:
kalvano wrote:
naterj wrote:
kalvano wrote:2.81 will effectively lock you out of most of the T50.

Srsly? Even with the NA urm?


No expert on URM admissions, but I don't think NA is near as big a boost as AA.


Disagree 1000%. How many schools have Native Americans?

Just about jack shit of them.

One of my professors talked about his time as a admin at a T14, and specifically pointed out a Native American (he teaches Native American law as well... so he may be biased) and said, "Bring this person in."

So you have a 163.5 lsat and some shitty-ish GPA. That doesn't take away your URM status, and you have to know that plenty of colleges will "pay" for you with either scholarship or either by pulling you in on the low side. The number of native americans in law school is minimal, and schools will work to get you in. I would think you have very legitimate chances in the top 25, but note that its been a few years since I applied to law school.


Because there are more AA's in law school than NA's doesn't make it necessary that NA gives a bigger boost. Also, ask Nightrunner, he'll tell you that NA doesn't get much of a boost (he is Native American).

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Jackie O
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby Jackie O » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:23 am

Patriot1208 wrote:
Because there are more AA's in law school than NA's doesn't make it necessary that NA gives a bigger boost. Also, ask Nightrunner, he'll tell you that NA doesn't get much of a boost (he is Native American).

lol I hope he appreciates this

mrwarre85
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby mrwarre85 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:30 pm

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Last edited by mrwarre85 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

sarahh
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby sarahh » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:16 pm

If your low grades were due to something that was outside your control, then maybe writing an addendum could help. But in your case, I think it could backfire. They may question your work ethic and wonder if you will put in the work at law school. Also, your LSAT score is low for top schools. I might do some practice tests and retake it if you think you can get a higher score. If you can get a 170+, then that would better support your assertion that your GPA is not a good indication of your intelligence. If you do write a GPA addendum, I think it may be helpful to say that you regret not putting more effort into all of your classes and you will not make the same mistake in law school.

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bk1
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby bk1 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:28 pm

Retake the LSAT. Don't write an LSAT or GPA addendum, your situation warrants neither. UT is completely out of the picture, even if you score a 180. Manage a 170+ and you have a shot at the T14. Mid-to-high 160's and some splitter-friendly T1's should take you (WUSTL, UIUC, etc).

Pip
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby Pip » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:37 pm

Your chances even if you claimed URM are pretty slim at any T50 school... You would be an Indian with a bad GPA and you can bet that there are Indians out there that have higher GPAs and the same or better LSAT scores... so why would they pick you? They wouldn't. If you really want to get into a top school you need to distance yourself from the bad grades... Either go get a job and work for a few years, or go get another degree in something and make sure you kick ass in the grades department. I think the second degree route might be your shortest and best IF you can really get good grades even in the classes that you don't think matter. And please don't put the fact that you didn't care about certain classes as an excuse for bad grades, I can assure you there will be more than a handful of classes in law school that you don't really think matter too.

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bk1
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby bk1 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:49 pm

Pip wrote:Your chances even if you claimed URM are pretty slim at any T50 school... You would be an Indian with a bad GPA and you can bet that there are Indians out there that have higher GPAs and the same or better LSAT scores... so why would they pick you? They wouldn't. If you really want to get into a top school you need to distance yourself from the bad grades... Either go get a job and work for a few years, or go get another degree in something and make sure you kick ass in the grades department. I think the second degree route might be your shortest and best IF you can really get good grades even in the classes that you don't think matter. And please don't put the fact that you didn't care about certain classes as an excuse for bad grades, I can assure you there will be more than a handful of classes in law school that you don't really think matter too.

EasternSeaboard
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby EasternSeaboard » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:31 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:I heard that University of Wisconsin is somewhat "soft" friendly. Hmm yeah I suppose on the URM thing I should just apply to lots of schools and maybe one or two will not have any Native Americans on board and will give me a harder look.

Does anyone have any experience writing addendums? I have a good positive tone on my PS but with the addendum I'm having trouble avoiding sounding like I have some great conspiracy theory against higher education or some other terrible attitude problem. Its tough because I absolutely was smart enough to make good grades (didn't attend a challenging University plus made A's in all the harder classes) and I absolutely wasn't lazy in college. Anyone out there can relate?


Addendums are to be avoided like the plague, from everything I've read...you should find ways to avoid writing one, not reasons to write one. HTH

mrwarre85
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby mrwarre85 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:46 pm

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Last edited by mrwarre85 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby bk1 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:18 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:I've already taken the LSAT a few times. I suppose I may retake in FEB. Also no UT with a 180? Chance at T-14 with a 170+? Something seems off here. I’m a Texas resident, I think I have the best chance at UT versus all the other schools ranked in the top 25. I’ve also visited with some of the admissions people and if anyone is soft friendly its UT.
I’m thankful for everyone’s help and I’m excited to see if I get into some decent schools. If I do I think I’ll add some anecdotal evidence that softs do matter.


Don't listen to Pip, he's generally wrong about a lot of things.

According to LSN, in the last 2 years only 1 person with a sub-3.0 got into UT and that person had a 169, was a URM, and was the founder of a nonprofit org (which I think is a better soft than what you have, no offense). Maybe with a 170+ it is possible at UT, but it is not something I would even remotely count on even with a 180. Extreme-splitters are hard to predict. Also, every law school tries to make you think they are soft-friendly, adcomms have an interest in maintaining this veneer. Heck they may even believe it though the truth of the matter is that numbers dominate all.

You should retake. You have the potential for a 170+ and even though you've taken it twice, both those scores are due to you panicking rather than you not being capable. I would say this definitely warrants finding a way to calm your nerves on test day and retaking. While yes, URM's with high LSAT's are rare, schools really don't like to accept sub-3.0's. They'd much rather take a high GPA/low LSAT URM than a low GPA/high LSAT URM, generally.

If you can snag a 170+ you have a shot at the T14, mainly UVa and NU (assuming your w/e is full time, post college).

mrwarre85
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby mrwarre85 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:50 pm

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Last edited by mrwarre85 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: What are my chances?

Postby bk1 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:01 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:While yes, URM's with high LSAT's are rare, schools really don't like to accept sub-3.0's.


You are probably right but I think that is so strange. I mean what is the difference between a 2.95 and a 3.02? I suppose adcomms always fall for the burritos at Taco-Mayo that are $.99.

I had thought there was some sort of GPA/LSAT composite soup score thing that would get a boost from things like. in-state, involvment, career goals, writing ability, etc.

Basically I'm just pissed because it sounds like I'm going to be the smart kid at a dumb kid school while I would prefer for it to be the other way around. That is what I was before and how I got myself into this mess in the first place.

I blew it.

Fine I'll take the LSAT again but I really don't like that test.


Nobody likes the test :P but if you crack 170 you will have a shot at UVa and possibly NU. It does suck that GPA is keeping you back (I'm in the same boat) but it was our own choices.

No idea why adcomms like that 3 so much, but looking at UT it is pretty brutal for anybody below around a 3.4 or so.




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