Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

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cigrainger
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Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby cigrainger » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:01 pm

So it looks like LSAC may have come to their senses after all. My community college grades from high school have been submitted and LSAC has NOT given me a cumulative GPA on my academic summary report. Whooo! They will see those grades, sure, but I don't have a GPA for them to report.

I got a First Class Honours degree at a top 5 UK university, which LSAC has evaluated as 'Superior'. I have a 171 LSAT. I have considered retaking, since I never scored that low on PTs (was between 174-178 over 15 PTs), and had to travel to Paris to take it, which I think messed with my performance, but I don't have the time to practice again for this cycle.

I have okay softs -- summer in Cameroon working on a development project, elected to the committee of the student-run charity that sent us there, section editor of school newspaper, and I'm now teaching English at a kindergarten/primary school in Vietnam.

And I should have VERY strong recs. I worked closely with both of my recommenders in undergrad and they both told me they would write very, very strong recommendations.

I will be applying this month (and Oct 1 for the apps that begin submitting then).

Can you chance me at these schools?

Harvard
Columbia
NYU
Chicago
Berkeley
Penn
Northwestern
Georgetown
UCLA

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kazu
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby kazu » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:12 pm

cigrainger wrote:So it looks like LSAC may have come to their senses after all.

I'm calling flame. That would never, ever happen. Maybe when hell freezes over.


:roll: All joking aside... international applicants are hard to call since there's not much info out there, plus the absence of an actual GPA. I'm thinking probably out at Harvard, maybe 1~2 admit between CCN, and a decent shot from Berkeley on downwards. Definitely In at Georgetown/UCLA. Maybe in at Northwestern - how long have you been teaching? They really, really like work experience, the more the better.

Why no Michigan, Virginia, Duke, Cornell? Just curious - if I were you I'd blanket MVPB just in case CCN didn't bite.

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cigrainger
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby cigrainger » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:20 pm

kazu wrote:
cigrainger wrote:So it looks like LSAC may have come to their senses after all.

I'm calling flame. That would never, ever happen. Maybe when hell freezes over.


:roll: All joking aside... international applicants are hard to call since there's not much info out there, plus the absence of an actual GPA. I'm thinking probably out at Harvard, maybe 1~2 admit between CCN, and a decent shot from Berkeley on downwards. Definitely In at Georgetown/UCLA. Maybe in at Northwestern - how long have you been teaching? They really, really like work experience, the more the better.

Why no Michigan, Virginia, Duke, Cornell? Just curious - if I were you I'd blanket MVPB just in case CCN didn't bite.


Thanks! :lol: I know, I never expected it either, and I'm still kind of scared they're going to be like 'oh we made a mistake, here let us screw you'. I've just been teaching this year. I absolutely love it, and might do it another year if I'm not happy with how the cycle turns out.

No MVDC because my long-term girlfriend needs to find substantial work in a public policy related field. She is going to apply to MPP programs next year or the year after, but basically we need to be in a city.

I might throw up apps there anyway in hopes of comparing aid offers, but I don't think I should get my hopes up on that front.

Any thoughts on an ED boost at CCN?
Last edited by cigrainger on Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kazu
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby kazu » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:25 pm

Definitely think you should throw apps to at least MV additionally, just in case. You never know what might happen :(

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sundance95
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby sundance95 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:26 pm

Not trying to nitpick your preferences, but the Ford School of Public Policy at Michigan has a very highly regarded MPP program that your SO should investigate.

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cigrainger
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby cigrainger » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:29 pm

sundance95 wrote:Not trying to nitpick your preferences, but the Ford School of Public Policy at Michigan has a very highly regarded MPP program that your SO should investigate.


She has, and I totally agree, but she's not applying this cycle -- she needs some more work experience. If she didn't, that would definitely be an option!

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St.Remy
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby St.Remy » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:54 pm

cigrainger wrote:Any thoughts on an ED boost at CCN?


You're in for an unpredictable cycle so take my advice with a grain of salt (as you should any TLS advice) but I would think that EDing to one of these schools would definitely be to your advantage. U Chicago's medians aren't out yet but CLS and NYU medians are, and they're both sitting pretty at 172. Since your LSAT is lower than that the only advantage they'd gain from you would come from increasing their yield. Since the only way to guarantee an increase in yield is by accepting ED students I would say that this would be the best way for you to give yourself a fighting chance at those two schools. That being said I bet that you will be at Chicago's median and they seem to be the type of school that likes foreign students, so you should still have a good shot there through regular decision. So if you would want to pay sticker at CLS or NYU and prefer them to Chicago I would advocate an ED. Otherwise I would bet that one or more of BPMV would bite, and probably many of the lower ranked schools as well. HYS is not happening in your case barring some great softs.

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kazu
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby kazu » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:00 pm

St.Remy wrote:
cigrainger wrote:Any thoughts on an ED boost at CCN?

That being said I bet that you will be at Chicago's median and they seem to be the type of school that likes foreign students,

Hmm I disagree...
To my knowledge Columbia really likes foreign students - I think around 10% of their class aren't US citizens. You can confirm this through their ABA law school fact sheet (or whatever it's called) up on LSAC. However, If you look at this link: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/internationalstudents , Chicago only has 2~4 for each class (class size being around 200) in their JD program. So, I don't think Chicago is that friendly towards foreign applicants, unfortunately.

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St.Remy
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby St.Remy » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:29 pm

kazu wrote:
St.Remy wrote:
cigrainger wrote:Any thoughts on an ED boost at CCN?

That being said I bet that you will be at Chicago's median and they seem to be the type of school that likes foreign students,

Hmm I disagree...
To my knowledge Columbia really likes foreign students - I think around 10% of their class aren't US citizens. You can confirm this through their ABA law school fact sheet (or whatever it's called) up on LSAC. However, If you look at this link: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/internationalstudents , Chicago only has 2~4 for each class (class size being around 200) in their JD program. So, I don't think Chicago is that friendly towards foreign applicants, unfortunately.


That was just a vibe I got. It was not based on any actual "knowledge" per se, so I defer to your actual numbers. OP, since Chicago isn't particularly foreign student friendly this makes shooting an ED to your first choice school an even more viable option in my mind.

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kazu
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby kazu » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:33 pm

St.Remy wrote:That was just a vibe I got. It was not based on any actual "knowledge" per se, so I defer to your actual numbers. OP, since Chicago isn't particularly foreign student friendly this makes shooting an ED to your first choice school an even more viable option in my mind.

Yeah, I was really surprised when I saw this for the first time as well :shock: .

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cigrainger
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby cigrainger » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:31 pm

I'm not actually from abroad -- I am American, a US citizen, grew up and went to high school in the US, I just went to undergrad in the UK.

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kazu
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby kazu » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:05 am

cigrainger wrote:I'm not actually from abroad -- I am American, a US citizen, grew up and went to high school in the US, I just went to undergrad in the UK.

Dunno how they would look at you then, according to the link the international students they accept have typically graduated from a U.S. undergrad anyhow, so those people would have a LSAC GPA.

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cigrainger
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby cigrainger » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:32 am

kazu wrote:
cigrainger wrote:I'm not actually from abroad -- I am American, a US citizen, grew up and went to high school in the US, I just went to undergrad in the UK.

Dunno how they would look at you then, according to the link the international students they accept have typically graduated from a U.S. undergrad anyhow, so those people would have a LSAC GPA.


Very true. I guess we'll just have to see how it goes. In my mind I figure I have a shot at schools where my LSAT is above median and not so much at schools where it's below. I'm just hoping I get into Berkeley (in particular) or Penn, as those are my top two choices for various reasons.

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kazu
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby kazu » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:40 am

cigrainger wrote:Very true. I guess we'll just have to see how it goes. In my mind I figure I have a shot at schools where my LSAT is above median and not so much at schools where it's below. I'm just hoping I get into Berkeley (in particular) or Penn, as those are my top two choices for various reasons.


Well, good luck! I hope your cycle goes well :)

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cigrainger
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby cigrainger » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:21 am

kazu wrote:
cigrainger wrote:Very true. I guess we'll just have to see how it goes. In my mind I figure I have a shot at schools where my LSAT is above median and not so much at schools where it's below. I'm just hoping I get into Berkeley (in particular) or Penn, as those are my top two choices for various reasons.


Well, good luck! I hope your cycle goes well :)


Thanks Kazu, me too! :mrgreen:

If anybody else wants to have a stab, I'll buy a beer for whoever gets them all right. :P

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FlanAl
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby FlanAl » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:02 am

hey cig!

any word on whether or not you have a GPA? i'm in the same situation and would be super happy if you have anymore info

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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby Lisa_I » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:10 pm

cigrainger wrote:So it looks like LSAC may have come to their senses after all. My community college grades from high school have been submitted and LSAC has NOT given me a cumulative GPA on my academic summary report. Whooo! They will see those grades, sure, but I don't have a GPA for them to report.


Yes, I heard LSAC doesn't give GPA for a foreign earned grades.
Do you think that it is a good thing or not?

I am also applying to LS, they processing my transcripts mean while.

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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby Lisa_I » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:12 pm

kazu wrote:Hmm I disagree...
To my knowledge Columbia really likes foreign students - I think around 10% of their class aren't US citizens. You can confirm this through their ABA law school fact sheet (or whatever it's called) up on LSAC. However, If you look at this link: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/internationalstudents , Chicago only has 2~4 for each class (class size being around 200) in their JD program. So, I don't think Chicago is that friendly towards foreign applicants, unfortunately.


What about Harvard? Do you have any info?

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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby kevin261186 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:29 pm

cigrainger wrote:I'm not actually from abroad -- I am American, a US citizen, grew up and went to high school in the US, I just went to undergrad in the UK.


which undergrad, if you don't mind me asking? I would guess St. Andrews, but that's only becuase I went there and know there to be a large percentage of US sstudents.

kevin261186
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby kevin261186 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:31 pm

Lisa_I wrote:
cigrainger wrote:So it looks like LSAC may have come to their senses after all. My community college grades from high school have been submitted and LSAC has NOT given me a cumulative GPA on my academic summary report. Whooo! They will see those grades, sure, but I don't have a GPA for them to report.


Yes, I heard LSAC doesn't give GPA for a foreign earned grades.
Do you think that it is a good thing or not?

I am also applying to LS, they processing my transcripts mean while.


if they judge it to be 'superior', that means the equivalent of 3.8 - 4.0 (especialyl if it's a top froeign institution)

if they judge the gpa as 'above average', that seems to be 3.5-3.7ish, but that's just based on my cycle.

The Real Jack McCoy
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby The Real Jack McCoy » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:17 pm

Lisa_I wrote:
kazu wrote:Hmm I disagree...
To my knowledge Columbia really likes foreign students - I think around 10% of their class aren't US citizens. You can confirm this through their ABA law school fact sheet (or whatever it's called) up on LSAC. However, If you look at this link: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/internationalstudents , Chicago only has 2~4 for each class (class size being around 200) in their JD program. So, I don't think Chicago is that friendly towards foreign applicants, unfortunately.


What about Harvard? Do you have any info?


Harvard is considered very international friendly:

http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/ ... ofile.html

Harvard's financial aid process is also very helpful for internationals.

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cigrainger
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby cigrainger » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:30 pm

kevin261186 wrote:
cigrainger wrote:I'm not actually from abroad -- I am American, a US citizen, grew up and went to high school in the US, I just went to undergrad in the UK.


which undergrad, if you don't mind me asking? I would guess St. Andrews, but that's only becuase I went there and know there to be a large percentage of US sstudents.


Edinburgh. What did you study up there?

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cigrainger
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby cigrainger » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:31 pm

kevin261186 wrote:
Lisa_I wrote:
cigrainger wrote:So it looks like LSAC may have come to their senses after all. My community college grades from high school have been submitted and LSAC has NOT given me a cumulative GPA on my academic summary report. Whooo! They will see those grades, sure, but I don't have a GPA for them to report.


Yes, I heard LSAC doesn't give GPA for a foreign earned grades.
Do you think that it is a good thing or not?

I am also applying to LS, they processing my transcripts mean while.


if they judge it to be 'superior', that means the equivalent of 3.8 - 4.0 (especialyl if it's a top froeign institution)

if they judge the gpa as 'above average', that seems to be 3.5-3.7ish, but that's just based on my cycle.


I hope that's the case! What I have to figure though is that because I don't actually have a GPA, it mostly comes down to LSAT and softs.

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cigrainger
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby cigrainger » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:32 pm

Do you guys think I have a legit shot at Columbia if I go ED there, even with an LSAT below median?

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im_blue
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Re: Foreign undergrad, 171 LSAT

Postby im_blue » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:50 pm

Here's your list of schools ranked by percentage of international students, according to ABA data:

Columbia 8.9%
Northwestern 7.5%
Harvard 3.2%
Georgetown 3.2%
NYU 3.1%
Chicago 2.4%
Penn 2.4%
UCLA 2.0%
Berkeley 0.0% (typo?)

IMO you have no shot at H, small chance at CCN, decent chance at Berkeley, and good chances at the rest.




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