Want to go to Chapman.

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boat343
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Want to go to Chapman.

Postby boat343 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:06 am

I really want to go to Chapman law; primarily to be apart of their veterans law clinic and military justice clinic. I am a veteran and absolutely want to be a part of these programs and can tailor my personal statement to reflect that.

I want to know where I need to score on the LSAT in order for them to consider me? I have a 3.8 in anthropology from the University of Arizona. Pretty strong letters of rec and personal statement. However, this LSAT is killing me... I diaged at a 147 and have not seem much improvement since I started studying with Kaplan. Anybody know where their cutoff might be?

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bk1
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby bk1 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:20 am

3 things:

1. Schools don't have cutoffs that are set in stone but check http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com to see what kind of #'s different schools accept.

2. If Kaplan isn't working for you, try something else. This is not to say that Kaplan or anything else is bad, per se, but rather that everybody learns differently. Some people like classes, some like private tutors, some like self prep. Pick what works best for you. If you are going the self prep route, people on this site really like PowerScore's Logical Reasoning and Logic Games Bibles, as well as Voyager's Reading Comprehension Guide (which is an article on this site).

3. You don't want to go to Chapman. You should choose schools based on job prospects, where they place, and cost, with job prospects being the most important. Chapman's prospects suck, there are much better programs out there especially for a veteran with a 3.8. If you get a 160+, which is definitely possible if you find out the method of study that works best for you, you would easily be looking at T30 schools, get into the high 160's and the T14 become an option.

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2807
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby 2807 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:47 am

.
Last edited by 2807 on Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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1ferret!
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby 1ferret! » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:54 am

OP, 159 would do it.
You don't really want to attend Chapman.
Other guy- no real difference in employment prospects, they all suck. yes some of us dont have other options in law school, however that doesnt mean the options you are left with are good ones.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby NU_Jet55 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:54 am

bk1 wrote:You should choose schools based on job prospects, where they place, and cost, with job prospects being the most important. Chapman's prospects suck, there are much better programs out there especially for a veteran with a 3.8. If you get a 160+, which is definitely possible if you find out the method of study that works best for you, you would easily be looking at T30 schools, get into the high 160's and the T14 become an option.


THIS

It's scary out there man, and plain and simple people just aren't getting jobs from schools like Chapman. If you want to practice law and make a livable wage without crippling debt, do not go to Chapman.

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General Tso
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby General Tso » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:57 am

solo practice is certainly feasible, but you probably won't make much $ for 2-4 years (at least)

not sure about criminal work...Alameda DA is currently interviewing 200 people for 8 summer clerk jobs. and you can bet there are more than 8 Hastings/Davis/Boalt people who want them. None of the other DA offices of the bay area are even interviewing. Last I heard SF and Marin counties were hiring full-time, unpaid DDAs and public defenders.

I understand you are in SoCal, but I doubt the situation there is much different.

Going through OCI at Hastings, and beginning to comprehend how long the odds of landing a decent paying job are...I can only recommend that you go to the best school you can for the lowest debt possible.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby NU_Jet55 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:03 am

This does not matter:

2807 wrote:3.95 grad GPA...My resume is very strong. LOR's are (will be) great.


This does:

2807 wrote:3.86 LSAC GPA...average low 150's LSAT


HTH

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2807
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby 2807 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:16 am

NU_Jet55 wrote:This does not matter:

2807 wrote:3.95 grad GPA...My resume is very strong. LOR's are (will be) great.


This does:

2807 wrote:3.86 LSAC GPA...average low 150's LSAT


HTH


Very true. Thanks. My gpa is fine, but the LSAT is tuff. I hope my age and background will help in Crim Law. If not, then I will persevere. It is nothing new to me. I was just curious if there were some local's in Southern Cal who had an idea of differences between the few schools available to guys like me and the OP.

A few firms that do some law that interests me have attorney profiles on their sites, and I see Whittier and Western State grads working there. That gives me hope.

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bk1
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby bk1 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:44 am

The LSAT is very learnable. Getting a 160 really isn't that ridiculous, especially with 3 tries. Don't let your dislike of a test inhibit your future job prospects. A little bit of effort now, comparatively, will pay big dividends in the long run.

How about one of the UC's such as UCI, UCH, or UCD if T14/UCLA/USC are not options.

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Ersatz Haderach
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby Ersatz Haderach » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:46 am

If you do very well at a school like Whittier or Chapman (top 5-10%), odds are you will be able to get an okay job. The problem is, there are 9 other people out of 10 who feel the same way. Moving up the rankings does give you some extra breathing room in terms of opportunities (generally).

Veterans often get a bump in the admissions process. Look at U. of San Diego, Pepperdine and Loyola LA. Reach for UC Hastings - many with numbers not quite as good as yours were at least waitlisted at Hastings this year. I think you could get in there. If on the other hand you want $$, you're going to be looking at places like Chapman and Pacific.

And of course, retake the LSAT and your horizons will expand dramatically.

boat343
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby boat343 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:48 am

2807 wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:This does not matter:

2807 wrote:3.95 grad GPA...My resume is very strong. LOR's are (will be) great.


This does:

2807 wrote:3.86 LSAC GPA...average low 150's LSAT


HTH


Very true. Thanks. My gpa is fine, but the LSAT is tuff. I hope my age and background will help in Crim Law. If not, then I will persevere. It is nothing new to me. I was just curious if there were some local's in Southern Cal who had an idea of differences between the few schools available to guys like me and the OP.

A few firms that do some law that interests me have attorney profiles on their sites, and I see Whittier and Western State grads working there. That gives me hope.


I think it's really hard to gauge. Not to mention, there is no telling what the economy will be like in three years. But, it is looking REAL bleak, currently. You are just kind of taking a leap-of-faith with the law school route as it is. There are TONS of attorneys out there; and there are TONS more graduating each year. Not to mention, with the economy the way it currently is, everyone is applying for law school hoping to ride out a bad economy living on loans and grants.

I have a bunch of friends who just graduated from the law school here at University of Arizona (not a bad place to go to law school). These guys are just fighting for unpaid positions hoping to land a job there--it's bad.

Also, it is crucial to get good grades your 1L year. That is when you start applying for internships, summer jobs and such--another time to get your foot in the door. My friends said most people that banged-it-out 1L year landed positions from their 1st summer jobs. They also stressed participating in the clinics, moot court, law reviews, everything. These are times that are gonna test peoples' resolve and willingness to go that extra mile. The people not getting jobs seem to have been the ones satisfied with just getting a JD and going from there.

Now for the flip side: With your background, I am sure no DA office is gonna have issues hooking you up with an intern position regardless of where you go to law school. And from what I understand, if you can impress them, you're in.

Long winded moral of the story: You can get a job from any school. If you graduate from Chapman and finish top 5% of your class, along with moot court, clinics etc. to give you the resume factor, parlay that onto your Police force background, you will be ok...

If not, F-it. You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. If I don't have a job to pay the loans back... sue me.

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bk1
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby bk1 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:52 am

boat343 wrote:"Long winded story"


The point is that law school grades, due to being on a forced curve and competing against similar individuals, are very hard to predict. The LSAT on the other hand is much easier to predict and isn't a gamble each time. You're better off studying more for a retake and getting an LSAT that will get you into a better school than you are trying harder at a lower ranked school that has good job prospects for only 1/3 the people that a higher school places.

boat343
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Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:03 pm

Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby boat343 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:03 am

bk1 wrote:
boat343 wrote:"Long winded story"


The point is that law school grades, due to being on a forced curve and competing against similar individuals, are very hard to predict. The LSAT on the other hand is much easier to predict and isn't a gamble each time. You're better off studying more for a retake and getting an LSAT that will get you into a better school than you are trying harder at a lower ranked school that has good job prospects for only 1/3 the people that a higher school places.


Oh, I am by no means disagreeing with you. I am gonna definitely take your advice and at least give a couple shots at it trying to land in the best school I possibly can. And I am gonna check some other study methods out. It is a learnable test, but it's not that simple...

I am talking with a lot of people that did not go straight to college, and/or had long layoffs from school. It is very very hard to adjust back to the standardized testing model. It is hard to accept the this is true, therefore this is true, therefore this is true type thinking.

But, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. A few more points on that test can significantly alter your job prospects three years from now. However, don't abandon all hope if you're only option is a lower ranked law school. You many never land that $160,000 a year firm job, but all is not lost on finding a decent job.

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2807
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby 2807 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:03 am

boat343 wrote:
2807 wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:This does not matter:

2807 wrote:3.95 grad GPA...My resume is very strong. LOR's are (will be) great.


This does:

2807 wrote:3.86 LSAC GPA...average low 150's LSAT


HTH


Very true. Thanks. My gpa is fine, but the LSAT is tuff. I hope my age and background will help in Crim Law. If not, then I will persevere. It is nothing new to me. I was just curious if there were some local's in Southern Cal who had an idea of differences between the few schools available to guys like me and the OP.

A few firms that do some law that interests me have attorney profiles on their sites, and I see Whittier and Western State grads working there. That gives me hope.


I think it's really hard to gauge. Not to mention, there is no telling what the economy will be like in three years. But, it is looking REAL bleak, currently. You are just kind of taking a leap-of-faith with the law school route as it is. There are TONS of attorneys out there; and there are TONS more graduating each year. Not to mention, with the economy the way it currently is, everyone is applying for law school hoping to ride out a bad economy living on loans and grants.

I have a bunch of friends who just graduated from the law school here at University of Arizona (not a bad place to go to law school). These guys are just fighting for unpaid positions hoping to land a job there--it's bad.

Also, it is crucial to get good grades your 1L year. That is when you start applying for internships, summer jobs and such--another time to get your foot in the door. My friends said most people that banged-it-out 1L year landed positions from their 1st summer jobs. They also stressed participating in the clinics, moot court, law reviews, everything. These are times that are gonna test peoples' resolve and willingness to go that extra mile. The people not getting jobs seem to have been the ones satisfied with just getting a JD and going from there.

Now for the flip side: With your background, I am sure no DA office is gonna have issues hooking you up with an intern position regardless of where you go to law school. And from what I understand, if you can impress them, you're in.

Long winded moral of the story: You can get a job from any school. If you graduate from Chapman and finish top 5% of your class, along with moot court, clinics etc. to give you the resume factor, parlay that onto your Police force background, you will be ok...

If not, F-it. You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. If I don't have a job to pay the loans back... sue me.



Bahahahaha.. I like the ending. Thanks folks. I understand the LSAT stuff. I see opportunities expand crazylike with a good LSAT. I have a good attitude and understand what I do wrong, so I am progressing. I just have never worked so hard for so little in return. My UG grades reflect some hard work, but at least I was getting results. This is ridiculous with the LSAT. Hat's off to you guys that nail it.

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bk1
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby bk1 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:10 am

I understand what you are saying. I am not like many others who would say never go to Chapman, but I would say put yourself in the best possible position before applying (which means exhausting all your options for the best LSAT). And I do understand that there are other options outside of 160k biglaw. In the end if you really really want to do law, I say go to the best school you can, whether that is Yale or Cooley, or best scholly you can, but as I said earlier, put yourself in the best possible position.

Danteshek
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby Danteshek » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:54 am

I got into Chapman with 157/3.05. I wasn't even waitlisted and I applied late.

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PogueMahone
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Re: Want to go to Chapman.

Postby PogueMahone » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:01 pm

If you get a 160 or higher you will probably get a full scholly to chapman. A 160 is very doable




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