170/3.78 ? Forum

[najumobi]

LSAT: 170
GPA: 3.78

Applying to:
Columbia
NYU
Penn
Fordham
Brooklyn
Cardozo
Temple


Thanks

es you have a good list of schools.

realistic reach: columbia, nyu
target: penn
safety: fordham, bu bc

you should expect 60k-135k from fordham, but most likely around 60k-75k...you're likely to get over100k from bu....because of that i agree with romo that there is no reason to apply to brooklyn, cardozo, and temple....

[bofaem]

i know columbia is a little lsat heavy so may be tougher but youve got really good chances at t14s. definitely add gtown, cornell to your list

id say you've got a pretty good shot at penn, nyu would probably be a toss up, you could apply ED and have a good shot

i think you're in play at michigan and uva for sure and duke would also be a good target school

i wouldnt apply to cardozo or fordham unless you are looking for some serious $$$, even then i think you could get $ from better ranked than fordham

[romothesavior]

Najumobi is almost always credited, but I disagree with him here. Your list of schools is not good. It is okay at the top, but you need to eliminate Temple, Dozo, and Brooklyn and add a number of others. And while you have a shot at CN, your odds are slim. ED at NYU is a possibility, so I'd go that route if you really want CCN. While I agree that Penn is certainly a target, it is not a safe target at all, as there seems to be a sea of yellow in your numbers range.

Again, you need to add some more schools. Here is my recommended list of schools:

Columbia
NYU
Penn
Michigan
Virginia
Duke
Cornell
Georgetown
GW
BU/BC (whichever gives a fee waiver... probably BU)
Fordham

This should give you a few reaches (CN), a few targets (MVP), a few quasi-safe T14s (DCG), and a few schools where you will likely get big money (GW, BU/BC, Fordham). You'll likely have the option of going to a T14 at sticker or going to a T30 with a huge scholly, which is a good position IMO because it leaves you with options. I can tell you want the Northeast region, so I tried to build this list with that in mind. I'd also apply to Vandy if you are willing to leave the NE, as you would likely get a great scholly there and it places reasonably well into the NE.

Everyone keeps talking about LSP here. Law School Numbers should give you a better picture.

Credited. LSN is infinitely more helpful than LSP, and that's why I think Penn is WL. There are a limited number of green dots in that range, so outright acceptance is possible, but there are mostly yellow and even some reds over the past few years. All OP can do is put together a solid app and see if she can land it.

Good luck.

[najumobi]

yeah i thought it was a good list since it seems to hit reach, target , and safety schools for the northeast where OP seems to be interested in.
but i failed to realize that michigan, uva, and duke are also good options since they send a large portion of their students to nyc. also, OP stat's seem to be perfect for those additional schools; their competitive while not being so high that yield protection would be a problem.

[LegallyBlonde923]

Thank you guys so much for all this advice! Would your suggested list of schools change any if I said i'm interested in doing public interest exclusively? I've been cruising the boards for awhile now and opinions seem to range widely on the merits of paying $$$ at a T14 or accepting a large scholarship to a lesser ranked school. This is where I am torn.

If it's better, for a PI person, to take the money at a lesser school, I feel like it's better to save on all these app fees and apply to alot of schools I know I will get offers from. But if the opposite is true, then I agree with the posters who say I am cheating myself by appying to brooklyn, dozo, temple, etc.

Thoughts?

[romothesavior]

Thank you guys so much for all this advice! Would your suggested list of schools change any if I said i'm interested in doing public interest exclusively? I've been cruising the boards for awhile now and opinions seem to range widely on the merits of paying $$$ at a T14 or accepting a large scholarship to a lesser ranked school. This is where I am torn.

If it's better, for a PI person, to take the money at a lesser school, I feel like it's better to save on all these app fees and apply to alot of schools I know I will get offers from. But if the opposite is true, then I agree with the posters who say I am cheating myself by appying to brooklyn, dozo, temple, etc.

Thoughts?

Your odds of getting a job, any job, are not very good from schools like Brooklyn and Dozo. A T14 school will open so many more doors than a Brooklyn or a Dozo. Also, I agree with you that you want to have some low-debt options in case that is the route you wanna go, but you are seriously underestimating your chances. I had a 168/3.76 and got a full ride to UIUC. Your "low-cost" options should be schools like GW and Fordham, not BLS. BLS and Dozo are atrocious.

Also, I know there is a lot of debate on this issue, but I believe that public interest folks should take MORE debt than private practice folks. 10 year IBR forgiveness means that 60k in debt is really no different than 200k+ in debt, since you are likely to only pay off a fraction of both at a low PI salary before it is forgiven. This assumes getting a job, of course, but your odds of getting one increase exponentially as you get into the CCN range as compared to the Brooklyn/Dozo range. Well worth the debt.

[Grizz]

Also, I agree with you that you want to have some low-debt options in case that is the route you wanna go, but you are seriously underestimating your chances. I had a 168/3.76 and got a full ride to UIUC. Your "low-cost" options should be schools like GW and Fordham, not BLS. BLS and Dozo are atrocious.

Agree with Romo. OP, you are underestimating how ridiculously easy it is to get money. If I were OP and wanted tons of options for the best financial package, I'd get as many fee waivers as possibly and apply to CCN on down to Vanderbilt and then some other northeastern schools that she likes like Fordham, BC, BU, etc. But Brooklyn and Dozo are a waste.

[LegallyBlonde923]

I've spent the last two days rehashing my list and have finalized on:

Columbia
NYU
Penn
Chicago
Duke
Cornell
Georgetown
GW
Fordham
Temple

Now I just have to tweak my PS a little and wait for one LOR.
Thanks for all the advice, it helped me out MUCHO.

[Grizz]

Why no Vanderbilt? Or BU/BC? You're not applying to enough places that will give you big bucks.

[LegallyBlonde923]

Why no Vanderbilt? Or BU/BC? You're not applying to enough places that will give you big bucks.

Whoops. I do have BU on my list, I started the app today. BC too, with a fee waiver.

[KibblesAndVick]

Everyone keeps talking about LSP here. Law School Numbers should give you a better picture.

This. Don't trust a model summarizing the data when you can actually look at the data itself.

[clintonius]

This thread makes me happy.

To the seasoned folks: for PI jobs, how much does strength of LRAP matter now that IBR is in play? I just realized that I don't know the answer to this question. I was about to mention that OP should look into the LRAPs of schools she's applying to, and was going to single out Chicago as a place with a notoriously mediocre plan. But maybe that's not much of a concern anymore?