Penn vs. UChi and NYU

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dresden doll
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:26 pm

quakeroats wrote:
IAFG wrote:
quakeroats wrote:If you're concern is Big Law placement Chicago wins by a mile even in New York. However, if you end up well south of median you could be stuck in the Midwest.

wait is this true? do uchi students who do poorly suddenly find their degrees less portable?


Before ITE not really, but if you can't make it past 70 percent you might have some issues.


He's not saying you can't get hired; he's saying you possibly can't get hired in the area you'd like. I'm pretty sure that the good portion of that 70 percent couldn't have jetted off to DC.

Also, that still leaves a decent third out of the picture. Sounds good and ITE it is; however, we're still talking about a class of 190 people none of whom is unintelligent or lazy. I dunno who the bottom third percent at my school is, but I'd be willing to bet they're damn intelligent regardless of the class rank.

Someone has to hit the bottom third in a curve-utilizing world. It's not necessarily indicative of 'issues' - just the reality/function of how LS grades work out.

09042014
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:31 pm

doyleoil wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
I don't even get the reference.


if you don't watch seinfeld, then we're done here


I'm pretty sure I've seen every ep, but I'm drawing a blank.

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doyleoil
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby doyleoil » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:35 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
doyleoil wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
I don't even get the reference.


if you don't watch seinfeld, then we're done here


I'm pretty sure I've seen every ep, but I'm drawing a blank.


oh it's the one where the kenny rogers chicken place starts up across the street - when it gets shut down the episode ends with kramer looking out the window across the street - "kenny, kennny...."

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fenderjsm88
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby fenderjsm88 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:39 pm

czelede wrote:As for the Midwest itself, half the people assume that when you talk about Columbia you really mean Columbia College (tiny little artsy school in the city) so I wouldn't expect them to think too highly of NYU/Penn.


When I first moved to Chicago, people would always tell me about their son/daughter/brother/cousin that goes to Columbia. I finally caught on when some guy was telling me about his son that graduated from Columbia 2 years earlier that now works at the Gap.

09042014
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:42 pm

fenderjsm88 wrote:
czelede wrote:As for the Midwest itself, half the people assume that when you talk about Columbia you really mean Columbia College (tiny little artsy school in the city) so I wouldn't expect them to think too highly of NYU/Penn.


When I first moved to Chicago, people would always tell me about their son/daughter/brother/cousin that goes to Columbia. I finally caught on when some guy was telling me about his son that graduated from Columbia 2 years earlier that now works at the Gap.


The midwest has a fake Cornell too. It's some liberal arts college in Iowa.

thechee
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby thechee » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:45 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
fenderjsm88 wrote:
czelede wrote:As for the Midwest itself, half the people assume that when you talk about Columbia you really mean Columbia College (tiny little artsy school in the city) so I wouldn't expect them to think too highly of NYU/Penn.


When I first moved to Chicago, people would always tell me about their son/daughter/brother/cousin that goes to Columbia. I finally caught on when some guy was telling me about his son that graduated from Columbia 2 years earlier that now works at the Gap.


The midwest has a fake Cornell too. It's some liberal arts college in Iowa.


Pennsylvania also has 2 other U of Pennsylvanias:
http://www.cup.edu
http://www.iup.edu

09042014
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:48 pm

There is a Northwestern College in a strip mall in the suburbs of Chicago.

thechee
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby thechee » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:49 pm

There's also a NW in St, Paul, MN, and I think IA too.

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IAFG
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby IAFG » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:52 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
fenderjsm88 wrote:
czelede wrote:As for the Midwest itself, half the people assume that when you talk about Columbia you really mean Columbia College (tiny little artsy school in the city) so I wouldn't expect them to think too highly of NYU/Penn.


When I first moved to Chicago, people would always tell me about their son/daughter/brother/cousin that goes to Columbia. I finally caught on when some guy was telling me about his son that graduated from Columbia 2 years earlier that now works at the Gap.


The midwest has a fake Cornell too. It's some liberal arts college in Iowa.

iowa also has a fake northwestern

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quakeroats
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby quakeroats » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:53 pm

dresden doll wrote:Someone has to hit the bottom third in a curve-utilizing world. It's not necessarily indicative of 'issues' - just the reality/function of how LS grades work out.


There are many areas in life that I can see a curve drawing lines where none exist. Law school isn't one of them. I can think of one professor (from Yale, btw) who mentioned that assigning low grades to anyone in his class would have been silly, but I think he's in the minority. I've read and talked with many profs who can go on at length about the nonsense they get back from students on exams. Read some sample answers from Harvard and Columbia, with parenthetical notes going off about how silly a common student response was, to get an idea of how much separates the good students from the less good. Even law professors--the majority of whom did very well in law school--can be separated wheat from chaff:

"The system [of student-run law reviews as distinguished from scholarly journals in other specialties] was not ideal. Because the student editors spent, at most, two years as law review staffers, all part-time, they did not become experienced editors. And since no self-respecting law school could afford not to have a law review, competitive pressure among law reviews were weak. There was no fear that a review that did not perform well would be driven from the market. So law review editors could indulge their whims, and thus, for example, publish the "tenure article" of a junior professor—not because it was a good article but because he was a popular teacher or the editors felt sorry for him and didn't want to see him fired."
http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/Nove ... vdec04.msp

09042014
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:53 pm

thechee wrote:There's also a NW in St, Paul, MN, and I think IA too.


Lewis and Clark's law school is called Northwestern School of Law. And those son's of bitches sent me a huge white packet in the mail a month after I applied ED to the real Northwestern.

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quakeroats
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby quakeroats » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:55 pm

fenderjsm88 wrote:
czelede wrote:As for the Midwest itself, half the people assume that when you talk about Columbia you really mean Columbia College (tiny little artsy school in the city) so I wouldn't expect them to think too highly of NYU/Penn.


When I first moved to Chicago, people would always tell me about their son/daughter/brother/cousin that goes to Columbia. I finally caught on when some guy was telling me about his son that graduated from Columbia 2 years earlier that now works at the Gap.


There are quite a few institutions in the United States with "columbia" in their title, with good reason:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_(name)

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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby r6_philly » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:01 pm

thechee wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
fenderjsm88 wrote:
czelede wrote:As for the Midwest itself, half the people assume that when you talk about Columbia you really mean Columbia College (tiny little artsy school in the city) so I wouldn't expect them to think too highly of NYU/Penn.


When I first moved to Chicago, people would always tell me about their son/daughter/brother/cousin that goes to Columbia. I finally caught on when some guy was telling me about his son that graduated from Columbia 2 years earlier that now works at the Gap.


The midwest has a fake Cornell too. It's some liberal arts college in Iowa.


Pennsylvania also has 2 other U of Pennsylvanias:
http://www.cup.edu
http://www.iup.edu


Actually ALL 14 state-owned universities in PA have names that officially end with "University of Pennsylvania". (Penn State, by the way, is not wholly owned/funded by the state and is called "state-related").

--LinkRemoved--

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IAFG
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby IAFG » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:07 pm

quakeroats wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Someone has to hit the bottom third in a curve-utilizing world. It's not necessarily indicative of 'issues' - just the reality/function of how LS grades work out.


There are many areas in life that I can see a curve drawing lines where none exist. Law school isn't one of them. I can think of one professor (from Yale, btw) who mentioned that assigning low grades to anyone in his class would have been silly, but I think he's in the minority. I've read and talked with many profs who can go on at length about the nonsense they get back from students on exams. Read some sample answers from Harvard and Columbia, with parenthetical notes going off about how silly a common student response was, to get an idea of how much separates the good students from the less good. Even law professors--the majority of whom did very well in law school--can be separated wheat from chaff:

"The system [of student-run law reviews as distinguished from scholarly journals in other specialties] was not ideal. Because the student editors spent, at most, two years as law review staffers, all part-time, they did not become experienced editors. And since no self-respecting law school could afford not to have a law review, competitive pressure among law reviews were weak. There was no fear that a review that did not perform well would be driven from the market. So law review editors could indulge their whims, and thus, for example, publish the "tenure article" of a junior professor—not because it was a good article but because he was a popular teacher or the editors felt sorry for him and didn't want to see him fired."
http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/Nove ... vdec04.msp

the point isn't that some students aren't better exam writers than other, the point is that almost all students admitted to UChi are capable of being good lawyers.

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quakeroats
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby quakeroats » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:18 pm

IAFG wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Someone has to hit the bottom third in a curve-utilizing world. It's not necessarily indicative of 'issues' - just the reality/function of how LS grades work out.


There are many areas in life that I can see a curve drawing lines where none exist. Law school isn't one of them. I can think of one professor (from Yale, btw) who mentioned that assigning low grades to anyone in his class would have been silly, but I think he's in the minority. I've read and talked with many profs who can go on at length about the nonsense they get back from students on exams. Read some sample answers from Harvard and Columbia, with parenthetical notes going off about how silly a common student response was, to get an idea of how much separates the good students from the less good. Even law professors--the majority of whom did very well in law school--can be separated wheat from chaff:

"The system [of student-run law reviews as distinguished from scholarly journals in other specialties] was not ideal. Because the student editors spent, at most, two years as law review staffers, all part-time, they did not become experienced editors. And since no self-respecting law school could afford not to have a law review, competitive pressure among law reviews were weak. There was no fear that a review that did not perform well would be driven from the market. So law review editors could indulge their whims, and thus, for example, publish the "tenure article" of a junior professor—not because it was a good article but because he was a popular teacher or the editors felt sorry for him and didn't want to see him fired."
http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/Nove ... vdec04.msp

the point isn't that some students aren't better exam writers than other, the point is that almost all students admitted to UChi are capable of being good lawyers.


I would agree with everything after the comma. I'd say the same thing is true for most schools, but law school isn't really about that, now is it?

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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby IAFG » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:20 pm

quakeroats wrote:
I would agree with everything after the comma. I'd say the same thing is true for most schools, but law school isn't really about that, now is it?

so what on earth did you mean by "issues"

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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby quakeroats » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:25 pm

IAFG wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
I would agree with everything after the comma. I'd say the same thing is true for most schools, but law school isn't really about that, now is it?

so what on earth did you mean by "issues"


I didn't mean anything by, "issues," because I didn't use that word. What I was aiming for in that last post was your assumption that law school has a lot to do with preparing students to become lawyers--good or otherwise. I'd have to disagree with that. The practice of law is essentially still an apprenticeship. Now it just comes with three years of academic training attached.

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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby IAFG » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:37 pm

quakeroats wrote:I didn't mean anything by, "issues," because I didn't use that word.

whoops, sorry, lazy TLSing

quakeroats wrote:What I was aiming for in that last post was your assumption that law school has a lot to do with preparing students to become lawyers--good or otherwise. I'd have to disagree with that. The practice of law is essentially still an apprenticeship. Now it just comes with three years of academic training attached.

well now that we both inaccurately put words in each other's mouth i guess we're even.

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quakeroats
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby quakeroats » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:48 pm

IAFG wrote:
quakeroats wrote:I didn't mean anything by, "issues," because I didn't use that word.

whoops, sorry, lazy TLSing

quakeroats wrote:What I was aiming for in that last post was your assumption that law school has a lot to do with preparing students to become lawyers--good or otherwise. I'd have to disagree with that. The practice of law is essentially still an apprenticeship. Now it just comes with three years of academic training attached.

well now that we both inaccurately put words in each other's mouth i guess we're even.


Unstated assumptions are still assumptions.

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IAFG
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby IAFG » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:51 pm

quakeroats wrote:
IAFG wrote:
quakeroats wrote:I didn't mean anything by, "issues," because I didn't use that word.

whoops, sorry, lazy TLSing

quakeroats wrote:What I was aiming for in that last post was your assumption that law school has a lot to do with preparing students to become lawyers--good or otherwise. I'd have to disagree with that. The practice of law is essentially still an apprenticeship. Now it just comes with three years of academic training attached.

well now that we both inaccurately put words in each other's mouth i guess we're even.


Unstated assumptions are still assumptions.

you underestimate how much faith i have in LSAT scores

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dresden doll
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:51 pm

IAFG wrote:the point isn't that some students aren't better exam writers than other, the point is that almost all students admitted to UChi are capable of being good lawyers.


This. And your quote really refutes nothing. LR writing =/= exam taking skills. People that perform poorly on exams aren't devoid of capability to write their way onto LR.

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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:52 pm

quakeroats wrote: I'd say the same thing is true for most schools, but law school isn't really about that, now is it?


I wouldn't say that at all. Being admitted to A law school is not indicative of anything. Being admitted to a competitive, solid law school is.

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quakeroats
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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby quakeroats » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:57 pm

dresden doll wrote:
IAFG wrote:the point isn't that some students aren't better exam writers than other, the point is that almost all students admitted to UChi are capable of being good lawyers.


This. And your quote really refutes nothing. LR writing =/= exam taking skills. People that perform poorly on exams aren't devoid of capability to write their way onto LR.


Your last sentence is true, but less relevant than you think. Your first sentence--the one after your initial fragment--and your second sentence seem to indicate that you misconstrued my point.

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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby quakeroats » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:00 pm

dresden doll wrote:
quakeroats wrote: I'd say the same thing is true for most schools, but law school isn't really about that, now is it?


I wouldn't say that at all. Being admitted to A law school is not indicative of anything. Being admitted to a competitive, solid law school is.


We agree. This means you probably did something wrong.

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Re: Penn vs. UChi and NYU

Postby IAFG » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:03 pm

quakeroats wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
quakeroats wrote: I'd say the same thing is true for most schools, but law school isn't really about that, now is it?


I wouldn't say that at all. Being admitted to A law school is not indicative of anything. Being admitted to a competitive, solid law school is.


We agree. This means you probably did something wrong.

:lol: you're cute. where are going to school?




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