3.0/172 - Forum

[Gleason]

This is my first post, but I've been reading the forum on and off for about a year. So thanks to everyone for this resource. I need your advice now, and it's appreciated.

GPA: 3.0 with an upward trend from mostly Ds as a freshman to mostly As as a junior/senior. I graduated in 2008.
LSAT: 166 and 172
Other stuff: Completed an MA in 2010 with a GPA of 3.7.
Might wait to apply until next fall due to (a) the economy and (b) to get some WE and more distance from my GPA

Here's the kicker: I'm aiming at California.
So I'm looking to apply to:

UCLA
USC
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UC Hastings
University of San Diego
Cal Western

Cornell
Lewis & Clark
UOregon
UWash, Seattle
Maybe some T14 schools.

More info: I'm interested in public interest and public defense. I'm also interested in immigration and employment and labor law.

Any hope here?

[pu_golf88]

UCLA: Out
USC: Out
UC Davis: IN
UC Irvine: IN
UC Hastings: IN
University of San Diego: IN
Cal Western: Really?

Cornell: WL/?
Lewis & Clark: IN
UOregon: IN
UWash, Seattle: IN
Maybe some T14 schools.

More info: I'm interested in public interest and public defense. I'm also interested in immigration and employment and labor law.

Any hope here?

Check out LSN. Why Cornell? Pretty much the furthest thing from Cali.

[09042014]

I'd try EDing to UVA, or Northwestern if you actually get a job.

[bk1]

Isn't his degree foreign and therefore not as relevant? Or am I missing something?

[09042014]

Isn't his degree foreign and therefore not as relevant? Or am I missing something?

Canada counts.

[ReelectClayDavis]

Your situation is one of the relatively few in which case the best school for you to go to is probably far from the region you want to practice. This is because Cali schools seem to value GPA far more than many schools in the rest of the country do, which is obviously not the strong part of your application. UCLA is very unlikely to get into with your GPA, even USC is a reach, and the reputation drop-off among the schools on your list after USC is pretty substantial. Still apply to UCLA and USC obviously, but realize your options in CA might not be good.

However, as Desert Fox says the 172 gives you a decent shot at two nationally recognized schools – UVA with an early application or NU so long as you get work experience.

I’d strongly consider visiting these two schools and ED’ing at the one you like. You can work in Cali during your summers to get connections there. Before EDing though, ask around here about these schools placement in Cali and check and see if some of the employers you are interested in appear at OCI, or have grads from the school in employ. Best of luck!

[bk1]

Isn't his degree foreign and therefore not as relevant? Or am I missing something?

Canada counts.

Got it.

[Gleason]

Thanks everyone. I'm glad I posted.

I've read of some people on here suggesting an ED double dip. How about a UCLA ED, then, if no luck, a UVA/NU ED? For the record, I'd prefer UVA (from what I can learn from my computer screen). NU doesnt look like a great fit with my interests.

Given my interest in public defense would it really be advisable to go to a higher ranked school out of the region?

[bk1]

Thanks everyone. I'm glad I posted.

I've read of some people on here suggesting an ED double dip. How about a UCLA ED, then, if no luck, a UVA/NU ED? For the record, I'd prefer UVA (from what I can learn from my computer screen). NU doesnt look like a great fit with my interests.

Given my interest in public defense would it really be advisable to go to a higher ranked school out of the region?

NU does not allow you to ED to anywhere else in a given cycle, even if you get dinged by them.

If UVa is your top choice, ED to them with enough time to get your response back (they say they respond within 15 days) and then ED to Penn or Michigan if you do get dinged by UVa (assuming Penn/Mich allow it).

Most of the T14 can get you a job anywhere in the country. If being a public defender is of interest to you, I would suggest looking at the schools' LRAP's and figuring out which is strongest for your interest. I wouldn't go to a regional school outside your target region though.

[Gleason]

Thanks BK. That's good advise. I take it that you, and others, think that UCLA ED is too risky?
LSN gave me *some* hope for a UCLA ED. Everyone with a LSAT over 75% at least got waitlisted. The data is pretty scarce, though. The only person with a split as extreme as mine had a 180. Someone argued on a different thread that UCLA is more splitter-friendly with EDs because the reason they are so GPA-centric is that schools in the lower T14 are LSAT-centric. Since people are likely to choose those schools over UCLA, they are protecting their yield rate and going after the high-caliber students those schools would be more likely to reject. So with an ED, they don't have to worry about me taking M or V over them. I have no idea if this is right, but it struck me as very plausible.

[bk1]

Thanks BK. That's good advise. I take it that you, and others, think that UCLA ED is too risky?
LSN gave me *some* hope for a UCLA ED. Everyone with a LSAT over 75% at least got waitlisted. The data is pretty scarce, though. The only person with a split as extreme as mine had a 180. Someone argued on a different thread that UCLA is more splitter-friendly with EDs because the reason they are so GPA-centric is that schools in the lower T14 are LSAT-centric. Since people are likely to choose those schools over UCLA, they are protecting their yield rate and going after the high-caliber students those schools would be more likely to reject. So with an ED, they don't have to worry about me taking M or V over them. I have no idea if this is right, but it struck me as very plausible.

I messed up and didn't read that you were aiming for CA. Keeping that in mind, I think that UCLA may be too safe and I would try for MVP (probably M and V for CA placement). I would at least do V, then considering how you feel about UCLA versus M/P in regards to risk, send to the one you feel better about.

[Gleason]

Okay, thanks again BK.
I like the VA option, and I hadn't really considered it because I have some inexplicable desire to get my feet down in Cali. I'm not interested in P or NU, so that leaves V and M (and of course UCLA). I wish so badly I had a shot at Boalt.

So I'm thinking my preferences will go V=UCLA >> M >> a more-or-less ordered ranking of Cali schools.

Do I have a better shot at V ED than UCLA ED? Would V really place better in CA than V? Stats dont tell me much cause of obvious self-selection..

[bk1]

What type of job are you aiming for?
Are backup markets important to you or are you "CA or bust"?
What are your ties to CA?

The answers to these questions I think are what tip you in one direction or the other for UCLA versus M/V. Despite that, my intuition is, with ties to CA, that M and V are stronger places to be than UCLA for CA prospects.

Not sure how strong your shot at UCLA ED is versus UVa, people say CA schools are GPA-centric, but I've seen UCLA take some splitters IIRC from other threads.

[Gleason]

I'm interested mainly for public interest, public defense and immigration.
Backup markets are of no interest to me except maybe Oregon.
I have no real ties to CA. I have some friends there, and I've spent months at a time there. But nothing like legal connections or residence or family.

I'd think I could make some loose connections over the next year since I'm there a lot. But anything strong would be unlikely. It would amount to meeting with offices I'd like to work at and saying "Hey, I really want to be a lawyer here. I'm telling you this now so you take me seriously when I ask you for a job later."

So with no real ties, I suspect V and UCLA would be about equal for jobs in CA? Add to that the fact that my girlfriend will be moving around with me and will have to get a new job in VA, then CA. Not too bad, I guess, but it will also make it rather hard to spend summers in CA. So I think I'd prefer UCLA all in all. I worry that I have only a slim shot at it, though. I wouldn't want to lose on the gamble and get neither.

So I guess the decision is either (1) ED at VA and if I dont get in, ED at UCLA or (2) ED at UCLA and if I don't get in see through regular admissions cycle.

Edit: Fixed some confusing wording

[bk1]

How serious is the relationship? If it is quite serious (she is following you around the country after all), I could see a serious case being made for UCLA if your desire is getting a job in LA afterwards.

If that is the case, I would say take a look at UCLA's LRAP and how good it is for public interest jobs. If it is decent, then ED to UCLA. If you get rejected/held via ED, then ED to UVa (you can switch your UVa app from RD to ED at any time by sending them in the ED agreement and they will render a binding decision within 15 days of receiving it).

[Gleason]

Well that would be perfect. It doesnt say on the ED section of V's website... is there not an earlier deadline for ED at V? UCLA notifies ED applicants by the end of December I think.

[bk1]

Well that would be perfect. It doesnt say on the ED section of V's website... is there not an earlier deadline for ED at V? UCLA notifies ED applicants by the end of December I think.

--LinkRemoved--

UVa is unique in this regard. While most other schools have an ED deadline in fall and then notify sometime in December, UVa allows you to ED at any time prior to sometime in the spring (I think it was March last cycle, it might be their regular deadline) and they also allow you to switch your app from RD to ED (I don't think other schools let you do this).

[09042014]

Be warned though, that last cycle, UVA got much more picky with ED standards after November. I don't think a 3.0/172 gets in ED if you do it in January.

[Gleason]

Be warned though, that last cycle, UVA got much more picky with ED standards after November. I don't think a 3.0/172 gets in ED if you do it in January.

Ah I was worried that might happen. Makes sense, though, since it's not truly Early Decision at that point--more like Binding Decision.

Back to the hard choice..

[09042014]

Be warned though, that last cycle, UVA got much more picky with ED standards after November. I don't think a 3.0/172 gets in ED if you do it in January.

Ah I was worried that might happen. Makes sense, though, since it's not truly Early Decision at that point--more like Binding Decision.

Back to the hard choice..

Your chances at UCLA are really shitty. Look into UVA's placement in California.

[bk1]

Your chances at UCLA are really shitty. Look into UVA's placement in California.

After taking a closer look I am going to go ahead and agree with DF here. Though ideally UCLA would be best considering you wouldn't have to move your GF, UVa seems like the strongest bet.

I wonder though if you send in your UVa ED on the first day it opens whether you can get a secondary ED app in before the other deadlines.

[09042014]

Your chances at UCLA are really shitty. Look into UVA's placement in California.

After taking a closer look I am going to go ahead and agree with DF here. Though ideally UCLA would be best considering you wouldn't have to move your GF, UVa seems like the strongest bet.

I wonder though if you send in your UVa ED on the first day it opens whether you can get a secondary ED app in before the other deadlines.

Yes he can. UVA has 15 day turn around.

[bk1]

Yes he can. UVA has 15 day turn around.

That's what I thought, but it somehow just felt unnatural that someone could know what school they are going to by the end of September/October (or whenever 15 days after they open is).

[09042014]

Yes he can. UVA has 15 day turn around.

That's what I thought, but it somehow just felt unnatural that someone could know what school they are going to by the end of September/October (or whenever 15 days after they open is).

I think there is one guy floating around here who knew on Sept 8th or something crazy.

[Gleason]

Okay so it's either the intelligent move: ED at V, if I dont get it, ED at UCLA, along with a regular adm. cycle
Or: ED at UCLA, if I dont get in, ED to V with little shot, along with regular adm. cycle.

This should probably be easy..

I've just read conflicting stuff about the chances at UCLA ED for someone like me.