HYS

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ibdancin
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HYS

Postby ibdancin » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:27 pm

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Last edited by ibdancin on Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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scribelaw
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby scribelaw » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:30 pm

If you have a 3.7-171, you have no chance at any of them, perhaps absent earth-shattering softs.

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Patriot1208
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby Patriot1208 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:39 pm

Yes, people with those stats have chances, when they are Olympic athletes, nobel prize winners, Neurosurgeons, or the creator of google.

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romothesavior
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:42 pm

Harvard is the easiest, but you're out at all three.

notanumber
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby notanumber » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:44 pm

Hardest/easiest isn't a very good way to distill the different schools. The three institutions seem to look for slightly different qualities in their applicants.

Or, to put it another way: If I were a 21 year old student with little going for me aside from a killer LSAT and GPA, then I'd feel safest applying to Harvard. If my GPA was sub-par but I were in my late twenties and had written a book that legal academics were generally familiar with, I'd probably feel safest applying to Yale.

Of the three Harvard is the most predictable.
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Bildungsroman
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:44 pm

ibdancin wrote:I know my numbers aren't good enough, but I'm trying to figure out if I apply to one super reach, what one it should be?


Yale or Stanford, because they have a cheaper application fee than Harvard so you'll be throwing away less money.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:47 pm

FAIL! It's HYS, not YHS.

Thread noted in your file and forwarded to the appropriate parties.

defrutamadre
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby defrutamadre » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:48 pm

notanumber wrote:Hardest/easiest isn't a very good way to distill the different schools. The three institutions seem to look for slightly different qualities in their applicants.

Or, to put it another way: If I were a 21 year old student with little going for me aside from a killer LSAT and GPA, then I'd feel safest applying to Harvard. If my GPA was sub-par but I were in my late twenties and had written a book that legal academics were generally familiar with, I'd probably feel safest applying to Yale.

Of the three Harvard is the most predictable.


This. Getting into Harvard may not necessarily be easier, but it's definitely the most predictable--which makes it the safer bet for applicants who can predict a small chance of admission.

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im_blue
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby im_blue » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:55 pm

If you hit both medians (3.9/173), then Harvard is almost a sure thing. If you have lower numbers (3.9/170) but excellent softs, then Stanford is the easiest. Yale looks for both high numbers and excellent softs, so it's obviously the hardest to get into.

ibdancin
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby ibdancin » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:32 am

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Na_Swatch
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby Na_Swatch » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:37 am

im_blue wrote:If you hit both medians (3.9/173), then Harvard is almost a sure thing. If you have lower numbers (3.9/170) but excellent softs, then Stanford is the easiest. Yale looks for both high numbers and excellent softs, so it's obviously the hardest to get into.


Basically the correct advice, with HLS being likely if you have the numbers, SLS being easier if you have lower numbers but great softs. However, HLS is def not a lock if you're at/above both medians... you a have a great shot but its not guaranteed.

Looking at the past couple of cycles a 3.9/173 is probably a 60% to 70% chance... far from a sure thing.

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PDaddy
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby PDaddy » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:44 am

Patriot1208 wrote:Yes, people with those stats have chances, when they are Olympic athletes, nobel prize winners, Neurosurgeons, or the creator of google.



I'd say you have a shot if your intangibles are stellar. Other than that, you might plan on Duke, UVA or something of that stature (if you want money). If you don't mind paying a little more money, go for the entire top-20 and see what happens. You can go to UVA or Michigan, and maybe Northwestern if you have W.E. If you're a really good writer, shoot for HYS, you could get really lucky. Anything is possible. I think Harvard is your best shot of the three because it has bigger classes. YS...not good. If you can raise that score 5 points, then you'd have a shot at all three.

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Grizz
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby Grizz » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:53 am

Harvard - the most presTTTigious diploma mill around.

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voice of reason
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby voice of reason » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:30 am

scribelaw wrote:If you have a 3.7-171, you have no chance at any of them, perhaps absent earth-shattering softs.


"No chance" is too strong. At Yale last year there were 229 applicants in the 3.5-3.74 & 170-174 range, and 12 of them got in. That's a 5% chance.

If you have strong softs, it's definitely worth the gamble to apply.

I look at it this way. A YHS JD would certainly be worth $50,000 more to me than a JD from any other school. With a 5% chance of making it happen, the expected reward (statistically) from applying to Yale is a $2500 payoff. That means any application cost less than $2500 is a good deal.

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im_blue
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby im_blue » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:35 am

voice of reason wrote:
scribelaw wrote:If you have a 3.7-171, you have no chance at any of them, perhaps absent earth-shattering softs.


"No chance" is too strong. At Yale last year there were 229 applicants in the 3.5-3.74 & 170-174 range, and 12 of them got in. That's a 5% chance.

I think you forgot about URMs...

IMO a 3.7/171 has no shot at HYS. That's well below both medians at HY (close to both 25th percentiles actually), and the GPA is too low for Stanford.

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voice of reason
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby voice of reason » Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:47 pm

im_blue wrote:
voice of reason wrote:
scribelaw wrote:If you have a 3.7-171, you have no chance at any of them, perhaps absent earth-shattering softs.


"No chance" is too strong. At Yale last year there were 229 applicants in the 3.5-3.74 & 170-174 range, and 12 of them got in. That's a 5% chance.

I think you forgot about URMs...

IMO a 3.7/171 has no shot at HYS. That's well below both medians at HY (close to both 25th percentiles actually), and the GPA is too low for Stanford.


I agree URM status is important and a 3.7-171 is a longshot and the expected outcome of an app is rejection. But people do get into top law schools being below both medians, provided they have very strong softs.

At Yale, a majority of the people below both medians is not URM.

ilovemulch
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby ilovemulch » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:29 pm

voice of reason wrote:
im_blue wrote:
voice of reason wrote:
scribelaw wrote:If you have a 3.7-171, you have no chance at any of them, perhaps absent earth-shattering softs.


"No chance" is too strong. At Yale last year there were 229 applicants in the 3.5-3.74 & 170-174 range, and 12 of them got in. That's a 5% chance.

I think you forgot about URMs...

IMO a 3.7/171 has no shot at HYS. That's well below both medians at HY (close to both 25th percentiles actually), and the GPA is too low for Stanford.


I agree URM status is important and a 3.7-171 is a longshot and the expected outcome of an app is rejection. But people do get into top law schools being below both medians, provided they have very strong softs.

At Yale, a majority of the people below both medians is not URM.


If someone with OP's numbers was an H legacy and had good softs, would that increase chances at all? Also, no one has seemed to ask about this in any other thread, but does having a family friend connection with influence on an adcomm board at a top school like H help at all if someone is very borderline?

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mallard
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby mallard » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:30 pm

ilovemulch wrote:If someone with OP's numbers was an H legacy and had good softs, would that increase chances at all? Also, no one has seemed to ask about this in any other thread, but does having a family friend connection with influence on an adcomm board at a top school like H help at all if someone is very borderline?


If it doesn't help, it's not really "influence," now is it?

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acrossthelake
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:38 pm

Harvard is the most numbers-driven, and in that sense, easiest to get into. Stanford <3's GPAs and doesn't value LSATs as much, so people with high LSATs, with slightly lower GPAs(less than 3.85) without stellar softs have slim chances at Stanford, but better shots at Harvard. Yale seems to want it all.

ilovemulch
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby ilovemulch » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:41 pm

acrossthelake wrote:Harvard is the most numbers-driven, and in that sense, easiest to get into. Stanford <3's GPAs and doesn't value LSATs as much, so people with high LSATs, with slightly lower GPAs(less than 3.85) without stellar softs have slim chances at Stanford, but better shots at Harvard. Yale seems to want it all.


What would one say about OP stats + legacy status + connection at H?

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mallard
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby mallard » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:42 pm

ilovemulch wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:Harvard is the most numbers-driven, and in that sense, easiest to get into. Stanford <3's GPAs and doesn't value LSATs as much, so people with high LSATs, with slightly lower GPAs(less than 3.85) without stellar softs have slim chances at Stanford, but better shots at Harvard. Yale seems to want it all.


What would one say about OP stats + legacy status + connection at H?


I don't really know of any evidence that legacy matters in HLS admissions. I don't remember being asked about it.

ilovemulch
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby ilovemulch » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:44 pm

mallard wrote:
ilovemulch wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:Harvard is the most numbers-driven, and in that sense, easiest to get into. Stanford <3's GPAs and doesn't value LSATs as much, so people with high LSATs, with slightly lower GPAs(less than 3.85) without stellar softs have slim chances at Stanford, but better shots at Harvard. Yale seems to want it all.


What would one say about OP stats + legacy status + connection at H?


I don't really know of any evidence that legacy matters in HLS admissions. I don't remember being asked about it.


I read something on their website that said people should note on their application if they are a legacy as it may be taken into account in borderline cases and each year it helps a few candidates, something along those lines. I guess that's my answer!

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mallard
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby mallard » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:45 pm

I might be remembering wrong. Anyway, I'm not sure 3.7x/171 is "borderline."

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Cleareyes
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby Cleareyes » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:58 pm

Harvard accepts the most candidates each year so it's probably the easiest overall. On the other hand I agree with what other people said about certain specific candidates having a better shot at Stanford. I don't really think anyone has a better shot at Yale than at HLS. If you have enough outstanding stuff to make yourself a good Yale candidate despite the numbers you probably have what it takes to be a good HLS candidate despite the numbers.

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acrossthelake
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Re: What's the hardest/easiest to get into YHS?

Postby acrossthelake » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:27 am

ilovemulch wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:Harvard is the most numbers-driven, and in that sense, easiest to get into. Stanford <3's GPAs and doesn't value LSATs as much, so people with high LSATs, with slightly lower GPAs(less than 3.85) without stellar softs have slim chances at Stanford, but better shots at Harvard. Yale seems to want it all.


What would one say about OP stats + legacy status + connection at H?


Going off of LSN: http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats and
LSP: http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-co ... ograms.htm

I would say unless OP is a URM and that connection is a family member who donated an entire building or "good softs"=something like a Rhodes or Fulbright scholarship, that the chances are slim to none. Hell, I have a 3.7X GPA as well and a higher LSAT and *my* chances are fairly slim. 3.7X GPA is the land of waitlists & rejections if the LSAT is 170-174 and wait lists and a few acceptance for 175-180.


Stanford is specifically better for people with higher GPAs and somewhat lower LSATs(Stanford's LSAT range is sig. lower than Harvard and Yale's) and connections to Stanford. I've seen on LSN ppl get into Yale and waitlisted at Harvard, but I feel like that's exceptionally rare.




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