3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

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willyj
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3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby willyj » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:15 pm

Honors student at big southern university with 167 LSAT, 3.90 GPA

Top choices: UVA, Gtown, Michigan, NYU, Northwestern, Stanford, Berkeley, UPenn
2nd Choices: Texas, GW, Vandy, William & Mary, UGA

Which of my top choices are feasible? Which is the best 2nd choice?

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JWicker10
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby JWicker10 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:27 pm

Of your top choices, far and away the most feasible is Berkeley. Relative to other t14 schools Berkeley puts the largest emphasis on GPA. I really don't think you have a great chance at the others. As for your 2nd choices, I think you have a really good shot at all of them, however Texas and Vandy are the best two in that list.

If you're really dead set on going to one of your top choices I'd recommend re-taking your LSAT, because it's going to hold you back at those schools. With your GPA, 3 more points would make you likely at most of them, and 5-6 more points would give you a pretty good shot at Stanford and NYU.

willyj
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby willyj » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:32 pm

Do percentiles vary much from year to year? And do the schools pay much attention to it? My score came out 95th percentile; can the top 5% really fill in all the spots at the t14?

I just REALLY don't wanna take that damn test again.

njgal
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby njgal » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:36 pm

The only realistic shot you have at UVA if you apply RD is if you are a virginia resident. I currently go to UVA (undergrad) and know a lot about the school. I know several people who got in this past year with 166/167. If not ED is your best solution to try and get in (and this is especially nice at UVA because they tell you within 15 days your decision).

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D-hops
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby D-hops » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:39 pm

I have almost identical numbers to you and I would really recommend retaking if you can. Depending on how much studying you did for the test, if you can really dedicate yourself to working your ass off to prepare for the test and getting a 170 or higher, it will help a ton. Some of your top choices are feasible (UVA if you ED, Mich if you ED or potentially if you don't, NU if you have work experience, Berkley but it's always a crap shoot there and probably Gtown) but by retaking you could open up a lot more options and at the very least open up some scholarship opportunities because a 167 is really not going to get you any scholarship money at a T13.

njgal
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby njgal » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:39 pm

[quote="willyj"]Do percentiles vary much from year to year? And do the schools pay much attention to it? My score came out 95th percentile; can the top 5% really fill in all the spots at the t14?

that is how the curve is determined....167 is always the 95th percentile, 170 is always the 98th. Thousands of people take the tests and many of those schools only have about 200 or so slots....so yes they really can fill the t14.

sumus romani
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby sumus romani » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:40 pm

willyj wrote:Do percentiles vary much from year to year? And do the schools pay much attention to it? My score came out 95th percentile; can the top 5% really fill in all the spots at the t14?

I just REALLY don't wanna take that damn test again.



No the percentiles change very little from year to year. For example, one year, a 172 is the 98.7th percentile, the next year it is the 99.0 percentile. There are slight, but insubstantial variations. I have heard that in tests well over a decade ago, 173 was the 99th percentile, but it has been hovering around 172 for a while now.

You are what is often called on this site a "reverse splitter" and you should search this site using this term. It is hard to say what you'll get into. Just apply very broadly throughout the T14 (well, maybe from Standford on down) and focus on Berkeley, as JWicker says. Your backup school list (Texas, GW, Vandy, William & Mary, UGA) is good too and you should get some scholarship money from some of them.

willyj
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby willyj » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:42 pm

I actually planned to apply ED at UVa; you're saying I'll get my decision within 15 days after submitting my application?

My softs (if i'm using the term correctly; i assume this means all the other stuff on your resume other than LSAT and GPA, right?) are great; I'm bilingual, study abroads, social fraternity vice pres, honors student, etc. Will this matter much with UVa/any of my other first choices?

Not fishing for what I want to hear, just trying to give as accurate a picture as possible.

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CG614
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby CG614 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:42 pm

sumus romani wrote:
willyj wrote:Do percentiles vary much from year to year? And do the schools pay much attention to it? My score came out 95th percentile; can the top 5% really fill in all the spots at the t14?

I just REALLY don't wanna take that damn test again.



No the percentiles change very little from year to year. For example, one year, a 172 is the 98.7th percentile, the next year it is the 99.0 percentile. There are slight, but insubstantial variations. I have heard that in tests well over a decade ago, 173 was the 99th percentile, but it has been hovering around 172 for a while now.

You are what is often called on this site a "reverse splitter" and you should search this site using this term. It is hard to say what you'll get into. Just apply very broadly throughout the T14 (well, maybe from Standford on down) and focus on Berkeley, as JWicker says. Your backup school list (Texas, GW, Vandy, William & Mary, UGA) is good too and you should get some scholarship money from some of them.


HA! I am not sure you can call a 95th percentile LSAT a "reverse splitter"

sumus romani
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby sumus romani » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:42 pm

njgal wrote:
willyj wrote:Do percentiles vary much from year to year? And do the schools pay much attention to it? My score came out 95th percentile; can the top 5% really fill in all the spots at the t14?

that is how the curve is determined....167 is always the 95th percentile, 170 is always the 98th. Thousands of people take the tests and many of those schools only have about 200 or so slots....so yes they really can fill the t14.



This actually isn't quite right. The so-called curve is determined before anyone takes the actual LSAT (it is really equating and not technically curving). But for all intents and purposes, our disagreement is not over much.

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JWicker10
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby JWicker10 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:42 pm

The t14 can definitely be filled in by people at or above the 95th percentile. However, certain URM groups get a boost/advantage in admissions, so you have to remember they will also be filling in spots.

sumus romani
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby sumus romani » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:45 pm

CG614 wrote:
sumus romani wrote:
willyj wrote:Do percentiles vary much from year to year? And do the schools pay much attention to it? My score came out 95th percentile; can the top 5% really fill in all the spots at the t14?

I just REALLY don't wanna take that damn test again.



No the percentiles change very little from year to year. For example, one year, a 172 is the 98.7th percentile, the next year it is the 99.0 percentile. There are slight, but insubstantial variations. I have heard that in tests well over a decade ago, 173 was the 99th percentile, but it has been hovering around 172 for a while now.

You are what is often called on this site a "reverse splitter" and you should search this site using this term. It is hard to say what you'll get into. Just apply very broadly throughout the T14 (well, maybe from Standford on down) and focus on Berkeley, as JWicker says. Your backup school list (Texas, GW, Vandy, William & Mary, UGA) is good too and you should get some scholarship money from some of them.


HA! I am not sure you can call a 95th percentile LSAT a "reverse splitter"



The "splitter" terminology is, admittedly, not precisely used. The OP will be above the 75th percentile for GPA at schools to which he or she applies. The OP will be below the 25th percentile for LSAT at a good number of schools to which he or she applies. So this is what I'd call a reverse splitter.

sumus romani
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby sumus romani » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:48 pm

willyj wrote:I actually planned to apply ED at UVa; you're saying I'll get my decision within 15 days after submitting my application?

My softs (if i'm using the term correctly; i assume this means all the other stuff on your resume other than LSAT and GPA, right?) are great; I'm bilingual, study abroads, social fraternity vice pres, honors student, etc. Will this matter much with UVa/any of my other first choices?

Not fishing for what I want to hear, just trying to give as accurate a picture as possible.



willyj, your softs are pretty normal for a top law school applicant. Unless you have something else, such as an in-state claim, URM status, or parent who went to the law school, your admissions cycle will be numbers-based. Having said this, you can get into some really great schools if you apply early, and do everything right.

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D-hops
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby D-hops » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:49 pm

willyj wrote:I actually planned to apply ED at UVa; you're saying I'll get my decision within 15 days after submitting my application?

My softs (if i'm using the term correctly; i assume this means all the other stuff on your resume other than LSAT and GPA, right?) are great; I'm bilingual, study abroads, social fraternity vice pres, honors student, etc. Will this matter much with UVa/any of my other first choices?

Not fishing for what I want to hear, just trying to give as accurate a picture as possible.


I would consider those softs average and not great. Of your top choices, and not knowing your undergrad, I think Mich or UVA is possible with an ED but unlikely without one; Northwestern, Stanford, NYU, UPenn are all out; Berley is still going to be a crapshoot but possible.

ETA: Apply as early as possible, it definitely helps.

willyj
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby willyj » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:51 pm

Does having a parent that went to the same university but not necessarily the law school really matter at all? As in, I have a parent and a grandparent that went to the dental school and the med school at one of these universities; does this make any difference at all to admissions officers?

njgal
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby njgal » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:54 pm

Early Decision Admission - Notified Within 15 Days

Early Decision applicants will be notified of their decision no later than 15 days after all the following criteria have been met: the application for admission is complete, the early decision agreement has been received and residency status has been determined

That comes right off of their website....15 days is pretty sweet turn around. That being said I know people who knew their fate in 2 days (granted they had stellar numbers-like 178). Once your application is complete in 2 weeks time you will know your fate (unless you are deferred to RD, in which case you will most likely be waitlisted)

berkeleykel06
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby berkeleykel06 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:08 pm

I don't think your chances at UVA at that bad with RD. I RD'd in early Jan and there was nothing spectacular about my application. I had a slightly higher GPA and a 166. However, I do think if you like UVA and are willing to pay sticker without the possibility of considering $$ from one of your 2nd choice schools, EDing at UVA is your best bet to lock a T14 acceptance.

willyj
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby willyj » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:14 pm

What's the red tape like to get out of an ED?

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hannah87
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby hannah87 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:15 pm

berkeleykel06 wrote:I don't think your chances at UVA at that bad with RD. I RD'd in early Jan and there was nothing spectacular about my application. I had a slightly higher GPA and a 166. However, I do think if you like UVA and are willing to pay sticker without the possibility of considering $$ from one of your 2nd choice schools, EDing at UVA is your best bet to lock a T14 acceptance.


i also got into UVA RD in january. 3.9/168, uninteresting softs. you have a decent shot especially if you apply on the earlier side. good luck!

sumus romani
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby sumus romani » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:17 pm

willyj wrote:Does having a parent that went to the same university but not necessarily the law school really matter at all? As in, I have a parent and a grandparent that went to the dental school and the med school at one of these universities; does this make any difference at all to admissions officers?



I think that it is almost always that a very close relative in the law school helps out a lot (as much as URM, for example), but for other programs, not so much. But schools may have different policies.

sumus romani
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby sumus romani » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:20 pm

willyj wrote:What's the red tape like to get out of an ED?



You can't get out of an ED if accepted. If you have merely applied ED and not heard back, I have heard of cases of people switching from ED to RD (of course, the formerly ED school will reject you or waitlist you at this point, but still). I have heard of people waiting a year after being admitted ED and then applying broadly the next year, but schools frown upon this, and some ED contracts might explicitly or implicitly forbid such a plan of action.

sumus romani
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby sumus romani » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:20 pm

sorry for the double-post

willyj
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby willyj » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:24 pm

sumus romani wrote:
willyj wrote:What's the red tape like to get out of an ED?



You can't get out of an ED if accepted. If you have merely applied ED and not heard back, I have heard of cases of people switching from ED to RD (of course, the formerly ED school will reject you or waitlist you at this point, but still). I have heard of people waiting a year after being admitted ED and then applying broadly the next year, but schools frown upon this, and some ED contracts might explicitly or implicitly forbid such a plan of action.



Well there has to be some sort of out; they're not going to hide in my closet and kill me in my sleep should I be accepted elsewhere and attend that school.

willyj
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby willyj » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:25 pm

berkeleykel06 wrote:I don't think your chances at UVA at that bad with RD. I RD'd in early Jan and there was nothing spectacular about my application. I had a slightly higher GPA and a 166. However, I do think if you like UVA and are willing to pay sticker without the possibility of considering $$ from one of your 2nd choice schools, EDing at UVA is your best bet to lock a T14 acceptance.


I take it you go to UVa?

berkeleykel06
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Re: 3.9 GPA; 167 LSAT

Postby berkeleykel06 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:27 pm

willyj wrote:
berkeleykel06 wrote:I don't think your chances at UVA at that bad with RD. I RD'd in early Jan and there was nothing spectacular about my application. I had a slightly higher GPA and a 166. However, I do think if you like UVA and are willing to pay sticker without the possibility of considering $$ from one of your 2nd choice schools, EDing at UVA is your best bet to lock a T14 acceptance.


I take it you go to UVa?


I will be, but I haven't started yet.




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