I got me a crappy 160....

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lawschoolhelp
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby lawschoolhelp » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:28 am

being an analyst, you only deal with a faceless "client", "entity", or however you want to word it, its all on paper. Its a little inhumane to me, I guess, but we are getting off topic here rad law! Thanks for the reply anyway!
[/quote]

I completely understand what you are saying!!! I feel that the faceless work that we do sometimes gets a little too boring and I sometimes doubt that this is the right field. However, I am in the middle of my CPA so its kinda pointless now. Also, I was raised in China and moved to the country when I was 12.

If you want to find out how my boyfriend prepared for the LSAT for the third time and how he dealt with his anxiety issues and/or application process, then let me know.

祝你好运

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Grizz
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:30 am

honestabe84 wrote:
dukelawguy144 wrote:retake and score a 165+

If you cant, dont go to law school. Going to anything lower that top 20 IMO is just pointless. You will end up with a lot of debt and be miserable.
Or go for a CPA if your an analyst at a Big4 (far better option than a law degree from a crappy school)


How do you know OP does not want to do PI or something?


Good PI is also extremely competitive.

dukelawguy144
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby dukelawguy144 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:34 am

rad law wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:
dukelawguy144 wrote:retake and score a 165+

If you cant, dont go to law school. Going to anything lower that top 20 IMO is just pointless. You will end up with a lot of debt and be miserable.
Or go for a CPA if your an analyst at a Big4 (far better option than a law degree from a crappy school)


How do you know OP does not want to do PI or something?


Good PI is also extremely competitive.


Plus no one wants to go a school like Northeastern or Brooklyn because they got a good PI program. People who say otherwise just do not want to admit they couldn't get into a better school. For example, doing PI from a school like Cornell is far better than Northeastern even though T2 ranked Northeastern has one of the best "PI programs in the country."

honestabe84
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby honestabe84 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:35 am

rad law wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:
dukelawguy144 wrote:retake and score a 165+

If you cant, dont go to law school. Going to anything lower that top 20 IMO is just pointless. You will end up with a lot of debt and be miserable.
Or go for a CPA if your an analyst at a Big4 (far better option than a law degree from a crappy school)


How do you know OP does not want to do PI or something?


Good PI is also extremely competitive.


By PI, I mean something like working at the PDs office. Are you trying to say that it's hard for someone to get a job there with a degree outside of the top 20 (especially in a secondary market) even in this economy? If you are, then you know next to nothing about the legal market.

honestabe84
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby honestabe84 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:36 am

dukelawguy144 wrote:
rad law wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:
dukelawguy144 wrote:retake and score a 165+

If you cant, dont go to law school. Going to anything lower that top 20 IMO is just pointless. You will end up with a lot of debt and be miserable.
Or go for a CPA if your an analyst at a Big4 (far better option than a law degree from a crappy school)


How do you know OP does not want to do PI or something?


Good PI is also extremely competitive.


Plus no one wants to go a school like Northeastern or Brooklyn because they got a good PI program. People who say otherwise just do not want to admit they couldn't get into a better school. For example, doing PI from a school like Cornell is far better than Northeastern even though T2 ranked Northeastern has one of the best "PI programs in the country."


No shit. Who said anything about any school's particular PI program?

pocket herc
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby pocket herc » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:46 am

OP, I would recommend retaking. Right now you might break into the lower T1, but it would likely be absent a scholarship. I'm at a lower t1, I love it here, but I would never advise anyone to come here without a significant scholarship. The market is simply decimated right now, and the job prospects for the majority of graduates do not justify a significant debt load. Dukelawguy is overstating the case, and being a douche btw, but retake, give yourself more options. G'luck.

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Grizz
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:47 am

honestabe84 wrote:
rad law wrote:Good PI is also extremely competitive.


By PI, I mean something like working at the PDs office.


Make sure your local govt. is even hiring. And by hiring I mean actually giving paid offers. Not some sort of "volunteer for 6 months and we'll see where it goes" crap. Local government in de facto hiring freezes ITE are not unusual (my home state included). Did you see the article about the California district who is trying to hire an ADA for free?

Are you trying to say that it's hard for someone to get a job there with a degree outside of the top 20 (especially in a secondary market) even in this economy? If you are, then you know next to nothing about the legal market.


Didn't say that. RC fail.

honestabe84
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby honestabe84 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:50 am

rad law wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:
rad law wrote:Good PI is also extremely competitive.


By PI, I mean something like working at the PDs office.


Make sure your local govt. is even hiring. And by hiring I mean actually giving paid offers. Not some sort of "volunteer for 6 months and we'll see where it goes" crap. Local government in de facto hiring freezes ITE are not unusual (my home state included). Did you see the article about the California district who is trying to hire an ADA for free?

Are you trying to say that it's hard for someone to get a job there with a degree outside of the top 20 (especially in a secondary market) even in this economy? If you are, then you know next to nothing about the legal market.


Didn't say that. RC fail.


You made more sense when you were trying talk about something you knew nothing about.

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Grizz
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:56 am

honestabe84 wrote:You made more sense when you were trying talk about something you knew nothing about.


Welcome to ITE. I don't know where you're living, but local govt. is in no way easy to land. Do you have to go to a top 20 school to get it? No. But making sure your home district or the districts you are targeting are actually hiring sounds pretty sensible.

pocket herc
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby pocket herc » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:02 am

honestabe, the market is devastated man. And as the better students have founds jobs wanting in the private sector, they have swamped the public sector, crowding out the more mediocre students that once could find safe harbor in such employment. What's more, the states themselves simply do not have the present capacity to hire, budget constraints are terrible right now. It really is a shit show.

honestabe84
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby honestabe84 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:11 am

pocket herc wrote:honestabe, the market is devastated man. And as the better students have founds jobs wanting in the private sector, they have swamped the public sector, crowding out the more mediocre students that once could find safe harbor in such employment. What's more, the states themselves simply do not have the present capacity to hire, budget constraints are terrible right now. It really is a shit show.


I agree completely that the market is a complete wreck and grads from everywhere are struggling. I also realize that there are hiring freezes. However, lets say you graduated from IU, BC, BU, Illinois, or ND, I think that as long as you're flexible and don't mind moving to a smaller market, I'd say you have a pretty good chance of finding a PI job. One potential reason why a lot of people are not getting PI jobs right now is because they chased biglaw for the past three years and did not show a shred of interest in PI. They're using it as a fallback option, and employers can smell this from a mile away. I don't care if you when to a top five school, if you can't show that you interested in the work you're applying for, you're going to be SOL.

pocket herc
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby pocket herc » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:23 am

First of all, those PI jobs have to be available, and they may very well not be. Furthermore, there is heightened (!) competition for those jobs. You might find students in the top 1/3 or better aggressively pursuing these jobs. Where does that leave the rest of the class? And I know grades/rank/etc. may not be as significant in the public sector, but they are still a factor. And there are more issues that I am failing to address. The question for the particular OP in this case is, are his options viable given the present circumstances? I hardly think someone in his position is consigned to a terrible fate, but he has a relatively easy means to greatly improve that position; improve on his lsat.

honestabe84
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby honestabe84 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:54 am

Are you guys from massive markets (i.e., New York or LA), out of curiosity? The midsize city where I'm from is struggling in a very BIG way, but the earth here is not caving in. I guess when you get to those larger cities there is just so much competition from top schools (and law schools in general).

pocket herc
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby pocket herc » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:56 am

mid-size market here as well...New Orleans

honestabe84
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby honestabe84 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:59 am

I realize that the economy will very likely still be screwed by the time we graduate, but it seems presumptuous to think that it won't have improved a little bit (maybe a lot).

pocket herc
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby pocket herc » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:59 am

Honestabe, are you currently in law school? Because the reality of the market only hit home when I saw what the 2l's and 3l's were going through

pocket herc
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby pocket herc » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:03 am

I hope it will improve. And truly, I am not nearly as pessimistic as many of the posters here. But it is bad, to say otherwise would be simply to mislead or deliberately shun reality. And my entire point was that the OP should retake, to give himself more options, to secure scholarship money, etc. I just think it is important to take the necessary precautions (while not being too restrained) to weather the worst potential outcomes.
Last edited by pocket herc on Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

honestabe84
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby honestabe84 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:03 am

pocket herc wrote:Honestabe, are you currently in law school? Because the reality of the market only hit home when I saw what the 2l's and 3l's were going through


No, I am not. So maybe I'm in for a reality check.

pocket herc
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby pocket herc » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:07 am

for what it's worth, I still think it is a worthwhile pursuit. Just don't do it simply for the money, because the money may never materialize...and more practically, minimize your debt and realistically assess the degree of hardship you can bear and the extent of the resources at your disposal to aid you if you struggle.

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Grizz
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:20 am

honestabe84 wrote:Are you guys from massive markets (i.e., New York or LA), out of curiosity? The midsize city where I'm from is struggling in a very BIG way, but the earth here is not caving in. I guess when you get to those larger cities there is just so much competition from top schools (and law schools in general).


Secondary FL market. Local govt. is almost broke. Problem is not unique to big cities.

mihk1151
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby mihk1151 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:18 am

Soooo I think the general consensus is leaning towards the retake for me, regardless of it being the fourth time or what not, correct? I certainly think this is a very sensible suggestion as I am aware of the trouble in the legal market. I would like to go through LS without inheriting much debt, so getting some kind of scholly is definitely something I would like to do before making that commitment. I just hope I can get a good enough score so the admission offices won't look at me funny because of my 4 tries at the LSAT. I know I won't get into HYS or anything of that caliber, but I would like to make myself as competitive as possible once I've finished LS. Btw, I think this question may be helpful to all those who are thinking about LS, so please provide us all some insight if you can...how bad IS the legal mkt right now? Can you give us some example so we can gauge how bad it really is? Have we hit the bottom or is this recession going to be one of those that will forever alter the structure and the size of the legal field? Thanks for all the 2 cents, yall are making richhhh biotchhh!

CanadianWolf
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:21 am

Your job prospects with either a law degree, a CPA designation or an MBA should be enhanced significantly by your fluency in English & the Cantonese & Mandarin dialects of Chinese.

mihk1151
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby mihk1151 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:23 am

lawschoolhelp wrote:
being an analyst, you only deal with a faceless "client", "entity", or however you want to word it, its all on paper. Its a little inhumane to me, I guess, but we are getting off topic here rad law! Thanks for the reply anyway!


I completely understand what you are saying!!! I feel that the faceless work that we do sometimes gets a little too boring and I sometimes doubt that this is the right field. However, I am in the middle of my CPA so its kinda pointless now. Also, I was raised in China and moved to the country when I was 12.

If you want to find out how my boyfriend prepared for the LSAT for the third time and how he dealt with his anxiety issues and/or application process, then let me know.

祝你好运[/quote]

I m glad we can relate! I really didn't expect anyone to understand me about that, but man am I glad there is another analyst on here so I don't seem as crazy as I sound. Thank you for the good luck and I will definitely hit you up for some advice in the future. Have fun at work!

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Dr. Strangelove
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:45 am

Out of the T50, I think you can get into Wisconsin & American.
However, I'd retake.

dukelawguy144
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Re: I got me a crappy 160....

Postby dukelawguy144 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:51 am

mihk1151 wrote:Soooo I think the general consensus is leaning towards the retake for me, regardless of it being the fourth time or what not, correct? I certainly think this is a very sensible suggestion as I am aware of the trouble in the legal market. I would like to go through LS without inheriting much debt, so getting some kind of scholly is definitely something I would like to do before making that commitment. I just hope I can get a good enough score so the admission offices won't look at me funny because of my 4 tries at the LSAT. I know I won't get into HYS or anything of that caliber, but I would like to make myself as competitive as possible once I've finished LS. Btw, I think this question may be helpful to all those who are thinking about LS, so please provide us all some insight if you can...how bad IS the legal mkt right now? Can you give us some example so we can gauge how bad it really is? Have we hit the bottom or is this recession going to be one of those that will forever alter the structure and the size of the legal field? Thanks for all the 2 cents, yall are making richhhh biotchhh!



Yea its real real bad. Outside top 20, there is no real career opportunities that justifies the debt, especially if you are not in the top 10% of your class (based on your numbers, it looks very unlikely).

The billable hour model is changing and associates are being affected by the change in the legal field the most. Its truly terrible. Really, retake or dont go. Career suicide if you do go with your current score

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/17/fashion/17lawyer.html




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