Lost Harvard Undergrad

Not sure where your numbers will get you? Dying to know where you stand? Come have your palms read by your fellow posters!
CambridgeKid
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:15 pm

Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby CambridgeKid » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:30 pm

I'm about finish my undergrad at Harvard and am looking to move to New York with my girlfriend, who is older and working in advertising. That said, I'd like to study law in/near the city like many but perhaps for different reasons. My biggest motivator will be the ability to repay student debt as soon as possible, rather than the long-term promise of high pay, since being a mobile entrepreneur is something I value (I have very little undergrad debt). My assumption, then, is that I will have to go somewhere my numbers will garner some scholarship money (correct me if I'm wrong). What are the chances of not only being accepted but also attending at a price lower than sticker at a better New York law school? In other words, how much higher than the median will I likely need to be?

What else does it seem I may be missing or may not have considered?

Thanks for your input. I enjoy reading your posts throughout this forum.

My numbers: 3.3 GPA/170 LSAT

Danteshek
Posts: 2172
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:40 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby Danteshek » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:34 pm

You might get something at Fordham... If you don't it will be because of the GPA. You would probably get significant aid at Brooklyn or Cardozo.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:37 pm

With that GPA, Columbia and NYU are both unlikely to accept you at all.

Fordham is a strong possibility. You've still got a very low GPA for them (below their 25th percentile) but your LSAT is above their 75th percentile. I'm not too familiar with Fordham financial aid. Pretty sure the next best school after Fordham is Cardozo. They'd probably throw a whole bunch of money at you, but their job placement is not great.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:39 pm

Retake that 170. Get 173+, and you've got a shot at NYU.

User avatar
Scallywaggums
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:52 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby Scallywaggums » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:30 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Retake that 170. Get 173+, and you've got a shot at NYU.


I hate to be a negative nancy, but you may be basing that off of last year. In the '09-'10 cycle, a 3.3/173+ would have been rough. http://nyu.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:35 pm

Scallywaggums wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Retake that 170. Get 173+, and you've got a shot at NYU.


I hate to be a negative nancy, but you may be basing that off of last year. In the '09-'10 cycle, a 3.3/173+ would have been rough. http://nyu.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/


Rough, but maybe Harvard would bring him through. Maybe ED there.

The problem with the 3.3 is not too many schools will give you money.

User avatar
Scallywaggums
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:52 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby Scallywaggums » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:11 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Rough, but maybe Harvard would bring him through. Maybe ED there.


Good point. Also, OP, any crazy awesome softs?
Desert Fox wrote:The problem with the 3.3 is not too many schools will give you money.


This is certainly true for T20, but OP might get lucky at Fordham (I dunno). As others have said, help from Cardozo and Brooklyn are extremely likely.

OP, apply to Fordham, Cardozo, Brooklyn, St. Johns, Rutgers & Hofstra.

If money's not an issue, retake LSAT if you think you can do significantly better, and apply to NYU & Columbia for the heck of it.

Something to consider: "My biggest motivator will be the ability to repay student debt as soon as possible, rather than the long-term promise of high pay, since being a mobile entrepreneur is something I value"

Some here would argue that attending a better school with more debt will put you in a better position to eliminate your debt quickly than a lesser school with lesser debt. I'm a n00b here, so I won't offer advice on the matter, but I just want you to realize that "less debt" is not necessarily synonymous with "less time paying off debt" in this job market.

CambridgeKid
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:15 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby CambridgeKid » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:44 pm

Scallywaggums wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Something to consider: "My biggest motivator will be the ability to repay student debt as soon as possible, rather than the long-term promise of high pay, since being a mobile entrepreneur is something I value"

Some here would argue that attending a better school with more debt will put you in a better position to eliminate your debt quickly than a lesser school with lesser debt. I'm a n00b here, so I won't offer advice on the matter, but I just want you to realize that "less debt" is not necessarily synonymous with "less time paying off debt" in this job market.


Point taken. I have considered that. I guess I wonder if it's possible to get the best of both worlds... perhaps do well at a school like Fordham and still feed into BigLaw in Manhattan.

I also forgot about Rutgers. How does it fit in relation to the others mentioned?

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby IAFG » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:49 pm

help me understand why you're going to law school. you don't seem particularly to want to be in a different position after school than you are now; little debt, lots of flexibility and the ability to be an entrepreneur. ... get a job?

BenJ
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:58 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby BenJ » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:55 pm

CambridgeKid wrote:
Scallywaggums wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Something to consider: "My biggest motivator will be the ability to repay student debt as soon as possible, rather than the long-term promise of high pay, since being a mobile entrepreneur is something I value"

Some here would argue that attending a better school with more debt will put you in a better position to eliminate your debt quickly than a lesser school with lesser debt. I'm a n00b here, so I won't offer advice on the matter, but I just want you to realize that "less debt" is not necessarily synonymous with "less time paying off debt" in this job market.


Point taken. I have considered that. I guess I wonder if it's possible to get the best of both worlds... perhaps do well at a school like Fordham and still feed into BigLaw in Manhattan.

I also forgot about Rutgers. How does it fit in relation to the others mentioned?


Rutgers probably wouldn't be worth attending for you, but if they give you a lot of money you might be able to squeeze some more cash from Cardozo or Brooklyn. Same goes for Seton Hall.

Fordham is, unfortunately, very stingy with aid.

User avatar
Scallywaggums
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:52 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby Scallywaggums » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:55 pm

CambridgeKid wrote:I guess I wonder if it's possible to get the best of both worlds... perhaps do well at a school like Fordham and still feed into BigLaw in Manhattan.

Yes, most definitely. They tend to place a larger proportion of their class into Biglaw than those immediately surrounding them in school rank, but I would advise starting a new thread with "Fordham" in the title to attract Opera Soprano and other Fordham folks for details
CambridgeKid wrote:I also forgot about Rutgers. How does it fit in relation to the others mentioned?


I listed them in order of rank. To balance prestige & location, use the rankings available on this site in conjunction with this http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&ms ... 601563&z=4

CambridgeKid
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:15 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby CambridgeKid » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:08 pm

Great link. Thanks.

help me understand why you're going to law school. you don't seem particularly to want to be in a different position after school than you are now; little debt, lots of flexibility and the ability to be an entrepreneur. ... get a job?


I do want to practice M&A law. Just one route there.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby IAFG » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:22 pm

UPenn seems like a good fit, and not so far from the city that you couldn't visit often.

User avatar
thecilent
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby thecilent » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:20 pm

IAFG wrote:UPenn seems like a good fit, and not so far from the city that you couldn't visit often.


Even if he does get accepted to Penn (which would be tough w his numbers), they def wouldn't give him the kind of aid he is looking for. And he wants to be close to NY.

OP I'd say target Fordham hard.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby IAFG » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:19 pm

Cilent21 wrote:
IAFG wrote:UPenn seems like a good fit, and not so far from the city that you couldn't visit often.


Even if he does get accepted to Penn (which would be tough w his numbers), they def wouldn't give him the kind of aid he is looking for. And he wants to be close to NY.

OP I'd say target Fordham hard.

forham is stingy. i don't think these numbers are going to get OP money AND M&A, which as a practice area got hit harder than others. he's going to have to either risk tuition or risk not getting a job/getting a job in M&A. i know which risk i would take.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:25 pm

I am usually firmly on the "ZOMG undergrad is meaningless!!!" bandwagon, but I think this is one situation where it could help a good amount. The kid went to Harvard and got a 170, and while a 3.3 is nothing to brag about, at least he wasn't a horrible student. (Although I'd imagine getting below a 3.0 at Harvard would require you to be comatose for a few semesters.) He is clearly competent enough to handle law school and I think Harvard would give him a decent boost.

I think schools like to have impressive undergrads on their "class profile" sheets, so he may get a bump and get some money at Fordham or land a T10 acceptance. (Penn was a good suggestion earlier.)

OP, re-take and get a 173+ is TCR. Then target places like NYU, Penn, Fordham, and Cornell, if you really have to be near your SO.

User avatar
thecilent
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby thecilent » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:44 pm

romothesavior wrote:I am usually firmly on the "ZOMG undergrad is meaningless!!!" bandwagon, but I think this is one situation where it could help a good amount. The kid went to Harvard and got a 170, and while a 3.3 is nothing to brag about, at least he wasn't a horrible student. (Although I'd imagine getting below a 3.0 at Harvard would require you to be comatose for a few semesters.) He is clearly competent enough to handle law school and I think Harvard would give him a decent boost.

I think schools like to have impressive undergrads on their "class profile" sheets, so he may get a bump and get some money at Fordham or land a T10 acceptance. (Penn was a good suggestion earlier.)

OP, re-take and get a 173+ is TCR. Then target places like NYU, Penn, Fordham, and Cornell, if you really have to be near your SO.


Sometimes these boards make it sound like retaking and scoring higher is so simple. He would have to be scoring mid-170's or be able to start scoring that for even a debate about retaking IMO.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm

Cilent21 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I am usually firmly on the "ZOMG undergrad is meaningless!!!" bandwagon, but I think this is one situation where it could help a good amount. The kid went to Harvard and got a 170, and while a 3.3 is nothing to brag about, at least he wasn't a horrible student. (Although I'd imagine getting below a 3.0 at Harvard would require you to be comatose for a few semesters.) He is clearly competent enough to handle law school and I think Harvard would give him a decent boost.

I think schools like to have impressive undergrads on their "class profile" sheets, so he may get a bump and get some money at Fordham or land a T10 acceptance. (Penn was a good suggestion earlier.)

OP, re-take and get a 173+ is TCR. Then target places like NYU, Penn, Fordham, and Cornell, if you really have to be near your SO.


Sometimes these boards make it sound like retaking and scoring higher is so simple. He would have to be scoring mid-170's or be able to start scoring that for even a debate about retaking IMO.


This isn't a situation where you either re-take and score higher or don't go. As long as OP thinks he can improve (even slightly), there is no reason not to take it.

User avatar
thecilent
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby thecilent » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:55 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Cilent21 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I am usually firmly on the "ZOMG undergrad is meaningless!!!" bandwagon, but I think this is one situation where it could help a good amount. The kid went to Harvard and got a 170, and while a 3.3 is nothing to brag about, at least he wasn't a horrible student. (Although I'd imagine getting below a 3.0 at Harvard would require you to be comatose for a few semesters.) He is clearly competent enough to handle law school and I think Harvard would give him a decent boost.

I think schools like to have impressive undergrads on their "class profile" sheets, so he may get a bump and get some money at Fordham or land a T10 acceptance. (Penn was a good suggestion earlier.)

OP, re-take and get a 173+ is TCR. Then target places like NYU, Penn, Fordham, and Cornell, if you really have to be near your SO.


Sometimes these boards make it sound like retaking and scoring higher is so simple. He would have to be scoring mid-170's or be able to start scoring that for even a debate about retaking IMO.


This isn't a situation where you either re-take and score higher or don't go. As long as OP thinks he can improve (even slightly), there is no reason not to take it.


But what if the OP thinks he can also decline in score (even slightly)? Then there is def reason not to retake

Veritaffle
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:07 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby Veritaffle » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:56 pm

CambridgeKid wrote:I'm about finish my undergrad at Harvard and am looking to move to New York with my girlfriend, who is older and working in advertising.


Posted on June 13. FLAME. What house, CambridgeKid?

acrossthelake
Posts: 4431
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:29 am

Veritaffle wrote:
CambridgeKid wrote:I'm about finish my undergrad at Harvard and am looking to move to New York with my girlfriend, who is older and working in advertising.


Posted on June 13. FLAME. What house, CambridgeKid?


Ha, good catch.

User avatar
Scallywaggums
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:52 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby Scallywaggums » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:35 am

Maybe a flame, but I'm still interested in this:
romothesavior wrote:As long as OP thinks he can improve (even slightly), there is no reason not to take it.

Cilent21 wrote:But what if the OP thinks he can also decline in score (even slightly)? Then there is def reason not to retake


They only count the highest test, so retaking seems wise with a significant chance for improvement, but is it a black spot on your app if you shoot for a higher score and fail? If so, how bad is it?

CambridgeKid
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:15 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby CambridgeKid » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:11 am

So is the strategy here to aim for acceptance at, say, UPenn in order to use it as leverage to get money from Fordham and still feed into BigLaw?

And where did we land on retaking the LSAT and scoring lower? It sounds like you guys think I'm on the bubble as it is. I wouldn't want to risk it if the downside is losing Manhattan completely.

And thanks again. Even to the joker who wanted me to respond to his challenge. Must be from Quincy.

Veritaffle
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:07 pm

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby Veritaffle » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:13 am

Go ahead and explain how you're "about finish" (sic) since Commencement was on May 27.

User avatar
Tanicius
Posts: 2957
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:54 am

Re: Lost Harvard Undergrad

Postby Tanicius » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:18 am

Veritaffle wrote:Go ahead and explain how you're "about finish" (sic) since Commencement was on May 27.


Gee, it couldn't possibly mean he has a semester or two left.




Return to “What are my chances?”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests