Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

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Quine
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby Quine » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:58 pm

creatinganalt wrote:
Something that seems to elude members of this board is that time is our most precious resource, and some people, like you, don't want to squander it working at Walmart for 3 years


If you want to take the high road then you might want to avoid straw men and condescension yourself.

Quine wrote:I don't understand the condescension - unless you're seeking validation? Your post is full of presumption (i.e. bolded), and then you tell me I have a lot to learn? Here's something you should learn: freedom is not a resource. I understand it's value, and I agree that it's paramount - but freedom is not a resource, it's a presumed manifestation of agency (or, simply, agency itself).


:roll:


It wasn't a straw man (or, at least, wasn't intended to be) - what kind of job is he going to get in this economy?

More importantly, I never laid claim to the high road, nor do I feel the need to avoid undirected condescension. However, you were condescending to me directly, and it was entirely inappropriate. You may be able to pull that "I'm older and you have much to learn" schtick on most younger people - I am not one of them. Also, if you have some compelling argument for how freedom is a resource - inasmuch as time is a resource, specifically - I'd love to hear it. If you deliberately misunderstand my post I reserve the right to do the same to yours.

spondee
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby spondee » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:43 pm

One justification for waiting may be your relatively low LSAT score: if you're bright enough to finish college so young, you ought to be smart to score higher than 170. For most people, the opportunities it will afford are undeniably worth the wait.

super6
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby super6 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:16 pm

From what I'm reading I've surmised that I probably won't get into a T14 but I've got a decent shot at Vanderbilt if they still have the same admissions team. However, if I get in it's possible I could have trouble finding a job however JAG will accept any decent law school grad, will they not? So even if I couldn't get picked up by a firm I could go on a tour in the military and then exit so that I would now be the same age as other grads but have a few years of experience actually trying cases.
I really don't see any viable work I could get with a BA in Political Science at 19 so I just need to figure out how high up the list of law schools to shoot, but I don't guess I'll know that for another 2 weeks when I get my LSAT score.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:48 pm

super6 wrote:From what I'm reading I've surmised that I probably won't get into a T14 but I've got a decent shot at Vanderbilt if they still have the same admissions team. However, if I get in it's possible I could have trouble finding a job however JAG will accept any decent law school grad, will they not? So even if I couldn't get picked up by a firm I could go on a tour in the military and then exit so that I would now be the same age as other grads but have a few years of experience actually trying cases.
I really don't see any viable work I could get with a BA in Political Science at 19 so I just need to figure out how high up the list of law schools to shoot, but I don't guess I'll know that for another 2 weeks when I get my LSAT score.


Yeah, this. Come back in 2 weeks when you've got your LSAT score. Till then, we should halt this discussion.

wrichcirw
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby wrichcirw » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:02 am

Paratiel wrote:
xyzzzzzzzz wrote:
curious to know what you think the benefits are.


For one, starting to practice at the age of 22 or so provides a great buffer for if/when the OP plans on having a family. After working for several years, s/he will be more established and in a much better position to support a spouse, children, etc. Instead of scraping by as a starting associate while pushing thirty, s/he will have already found a niche and comfortably settled into a long-term career. This is especially relevant for females, since extended maternity leave is easier to win when you already have secured your importance for an employer.

Second, it is much easier to tolerate an associate's life when you are younger and have less obligations. People in their early twenties are less weighed down by family, finances, etc. and usually have more energy, thus making it easier to feed the company's bottom-line.

Third, firms could view graduating at an early age as a sure sign of drive, focus and maturity. Obviously, the interview and resume will have to demonstrate this, but it provides a potentially positive means of separating oneself from the otherwise innocuous pack of other applicants.

Anyway, these are just a few considerations that I ran through when facing the same decision as the OP.


I think that if you ran this explanation past any doubting Thomases, you'd gain a lot more credibility compared to the many mid-late 20s folks you'd be competing against.

TaiRuiJin
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby TaiRuiJin » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:12 am

Didn't read all the comments, so I may be repeating here, but your application ought to drip with maturity. That's going to be the school's biggest concern, as long as all goes well with your LSAT. I'm not in your shoes in the same way, but I've heard over and over again from admissions teams via blogs, TLS interviews, etc. that you need to prove to them that what may appear to be a weakness about you actually is not. I might even go so far as to suggest writing and addendum about your age. Address it directly, maturely, and call upon your experiences elsewhere to support it. Good luck.

creatinganalt
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby creatinganalt » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:00 am

Quine wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:
Something that seems to elude members of this board is that time is our most precious resource, and some people, like you, don't want to squander it working at Walmart for 3 years


If you want to take the high road then you might want to avoid straw men and condescension yourself.

Quine wrote:I don't understand the condescension - unless you're seeking validation? Your post is full of presumption (i.e. bolded), and then you tell me I have a lot to learn? Here's something you should learn: freedom is not a resource. I understand it's value, and I agree that it's paramount - but freedom is not a resource, it's a presumed manifestation of agency (or, simply, agency itself).


:roll:


It wasn't a straw man (or, at least, wasn't intended to be) - what kind of job is he going to get in this economy?

More importantly, I never laid claim to the high road, nor do I feel the need to avoid undirected condescension. However, you were condescending to me directly, and it was entirely inappropriate. You may be able to pull that "I'm older and you have much to learn" schtick on most younger people - I am not one of them. Also, if you have some compelling argument for how freedom is a resource - inasmuch as time is a resource, specifically - I'd love to hear it. If you deliberately misunderstand my post I reserve the right to do the same to yours.


I've changed jobs twice in this economy. I don't work at Walmart. I know many new graduates who've gone into good jobs in this economy. There are plenty of programs like Peace Corps and TFA etc. Sorry that doesn't fit with your hysterical hyperbole.

Also, you can mess around with definitions all you like. Options with 160k debt are much more limited than they are without.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:32 pm

sdv wrote:
eandy wrote:1. At OCI, they will know. Looking at your resume will make it obvious, don't you think? Looking at your high school graduation date and your college graduation date will give it away.


do people really put their high school graduation date on professional resumes? really?

No. I can't figure out looking at my resume any way firms at OCI could possibly know I'm younger than most. Can someone who thinks their age affected their job search please explain to me how that's possible? No high school, no reason to put you graduated UG in fewer than four years if you did -- how would they know?

OP - I am very glad I took a year off and didn't come to law school until I was 21, if only for the sake of avoiding awkwardness. Also, work experience is a huge plus and can only help. You're way ahead of the game, why not make yourself more likely to get into a great school and more likely to get a great job coming out by wracking up work experience? You can still go to law school a year early and then be 21 so you can actually engage in social activities with your classmates.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:06 pm

Other25BeforeYou wrote:
sdv wrote:
eandy wrote:1. At OCI, they will know. Looking at your resume will make it obvious, don't you think? Looking at your high school graduation date and your college graduation date will give it away.


do people really put their high school graduation date on professional resumes? really?

No. I can't figure out looking at my resume any way firms at OCI could possibly know I'm younger than most. Can someone who thinks their age affected their job search please explain to me how that's possible? No high school, no reason to put you graduated UG in fewer than four years if you did -- how would they know?

OP - I am very glad I took a year off and didn't come to law school until I was 21, if only for the sake of avoiding awkwardness. Also, work experience is a huge plus and can only help. You're way ahead of the game, why not make yourself more likely to get into a great school and more likely to get a great job coming out by wracking up work experience? You can still go to law school a year early and then be 21 so you can actually engage in social activities with your classmates.


Some people put high school down, thus the give-away.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:18 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:
sdv wrote:
eandy wrote:1. At OCI, they will know. Looking at your resume will make it obvious, don't you think? Looking at your high school graduation date and your college graduation date will give it away.


do people really put their high school graduation date on professional resumes? really?

No. I can't figure out looking at my resume any way firms at OCI could possibly know I'm younger than most. Can someone who thinks their age affected their job search please explain to me how that's possible? No high school, no reason to put you graduated UG in fewer than four years if you did -- how would they know?

OP - I am very glad I took a year off and didn't come to law school until I was 21, if only for the sake of avoiding awkwardness. Also, work experience is a huge plus and can only help. You're way ahead of the game, why not make yourself more likely to get into a great school and more likely to get a great job coming out by wracking up work experience? You can still go to law school a year early and then be 21 so you can actually engage in social activities with your classmates.


Some people put high school down, thus the give-away.

I guess that makes sense if you went to one of those fancy prep schools where alumni connections matter, but for most people it seems like a waste of good resume space.

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Quine
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby Quine » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:11 pm

creatinganalt wrote:
Quine wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:
Something that seems to elude members of this board is that time is our most precious resource, and some people, like you, don't want to squander it working at Walmart for 3 years


If you want to take the high road then you might want to avoid straw men and condescension yourself.

Quine wrote:I don't understand the condescension - unless you're seeking validation? Your post is full of presumption (i.e. bolded), and then you tell me I have a lot to learn? Here's something you should learn: freedom is not a resource. I understand it's value, and I agree that it's paramount - but freedom is not a resource, it's a presumed manifestation of agency (or, simply, agency itself).


:roll:


It wasn't a straw man (or, at least, wasn't intended to be) - what kind of job is he going to get in this economy?

More importantly, I never laid claim to the high road, nor do I feel the need to avoid undirected condescension. However, you were condescending to me directly, and it was entirely inappropriate. You may be able to pull that "I'm older and you have much to learn" schtick on most younger people - I am not one of them. Also, if you have some compelling argument for how freedom is a resource - inasmuch as time is a resource, specifically - I'd love to hear it. If you deliberately misunderstand my post I reserve the right to do the same to yours.


I've changed jobs twice in this economy. I don't work at Walmart. I know many new graduates who've gone into good jobs in this economy. There are plenty of programs like Peace Corps and TFA etc. Sorry that doesn't fit with your hysterical hyperbole.

Also, you can mess around with definitions all you like. Options with 160k debt are much more limited than they are without.


Hysterical? What're you doing so right that you've had 3 jobs in 3 years? - yes, that was sarcasm. (No, it wasn't hysterical.)

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acrossthelake
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:00 pm

Other25BeforeYou wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
Some people put high school down, thus the give-away.

I guess that makes sense if you went to one of those fancy prep schools where alumni connections matter, but for most people it seems like a waste of good resume space.


I kept select stuff from hs (and hs itself) on my resume for the first half of college, but the half-way mark is definitely time to end it.

hugoboss
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby hugoboss » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:01 pm

neither they don't care.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:03 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
Some people put high school down, thus the give-away.

I guess that makes sense if you went to one of those fancy prep schools where alumni connections matter, but for most people it seems like a waste of good resume space.


I kept select stuff from hs (and hs itself) on my resume for the first half of college, but the half-way mark is definitely time to end it.

Generally, I agree. So. I'm still at a loss as to how firms would know a student is younger than average.

creatinganalt
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby creatinganalt » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:29 am

Quine wrote:Hysterical? What're you doing so right that you've had 3 jobs in 3 years? - yes, that was sarcasm. (No, it wasn't hysterical.)


I'm guessing you are evaluating my career with all the employment wisdom that you've accumulated in your years in the workplace. I've jumped job titles and upped my pay dramatically and because I work on discrete projects, it's not been an issue. But why don't you go back to explaining the wonderful insights that you have that no one else on the board has yet discovered...

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Quine
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby Quine » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:24 am

creatinganalt wrote:I'm guessing you are evaluating my career with all the employment wisdom that you've accumulated in your years in the workplace. I've jumped job titles and upped my pay dramatically and because I work on discrete projects, it's not been an issue. But why don't you go back to explaining the wonderful insights that you have that no one else on the board has yet discovered...


What are you trying to prove, and to whom are you trying to prove it?

I never claimed to have a unique insight. I'm merely lending representation to different priorities.

mst
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby mst » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:09 am

I plan on going to law school directly out of UG (standard UG age). Keep in mind that's a few years older than 18, but I'm still VERY concerned about how strongly age is going to play into landing jobs. I just don't look that old, and my employment experience is very limited. Keep in mind how many people in law school are in their mid to late 20's and beyond. Then imagine competing against them. Be honest with yourself and ask "Who would I hire to represent my firm?" It's almost embarrassing to hire some kid who looks like he could be in high school... How can someone be confident that in front of clients the firm wouldn't look like a circus, expecting people to spend tens of thousands of dollars to have major issues in their lives cleared up by somebody that looks no older than their high school son?

That said, graduating at 19 doesn't necessarily imply genius. In fact, it's becoming more and more common. With dual enrollment, AP, etc. I honestly believe that any intelligent student is capable of doing this. No offense to you, but it's not as uncommon or remarkable as it has been in the past.

All the common sense reasons aside, do you really feel that at 19 you are comfortable enough with yourself and your experiences to basically commit to being a dedicated adult for the rest of your life? You probably spent, at most, 2 years fully engaged in college (UCF nonetheless... not a bad school but suburban Orlando is not exactly a place to discover yourself and the world around you). I can't possibly explain the value that a few extra years of life can offer at such a young age, but I think most people would agree that you would be selling yourself short of some excellent life experiences... When I was 18, I had just graduated high school. When I think of what I've gone through and the person I am today because of those few years between then and now, it's unbelievable...

You will NOT be the same person you are today in 3 years, and I think you are doing yourself a HUGE disservice by going to law school with so little time spent immersing yourself at an UG institution or in the real world. My suggestion: Pursue a double major, study abroad, look at an easy masters program, go after a semester internship somewhere unique... This is the only time in your life you get to do that. Enjoy college. Enjoy drinking and themed parties. Enjoy other countries. But don't rush into a decision that will effectively seal the doors on your life at 18, while also probably hurting your employment chances over the next 3 years through law school in a state that is already tough to find decent law positions in...

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby TheBigMediocre » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:56 am

Why not get a MAcc in a year, sit for your CPA and work at a Big 4 or regional accounting firm for 1-2 years to get your work hours req'd for full CPA designation, and then apply to law schools with an extremely bad ass professional credential at the age of 21/22?

ram jam
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby ram jam » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:06 am

Are you sure you want to study law at an age that limits your consumption of alcohol?

Do something more interesting for a couple years, military, peace corp, travel, join a circus.... do not waste your prime years in law school.

Also, I don't think anyone wants a minor-gunner in their classroom.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby acrossthelake » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:07 pm

Other25BeforeYou wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
Some people put high school down, thus the give-away.

I guess that makes sense if you went to one of those fancy prep schools where alumni connections matter, but for most people it seems like a waste of good resume space.


I kept select stuff from hs (and hs itself) on my resume for the first half of college, but the half-way mark is definitely time to end it.

Generally, I agree. So. I'm still at a loss as to how firms would know a student is younger than average.


I had a friend who did a special program that allowed one to skip high school entirely and she put it down on her app, thus the reveal.

@OP, I hail from a city where skipping years of schooling, while not the norm, isn't something people generally blink twice about. I went to school with a girl who is 19 and going to start working for a top consulting firm in NYC this fall, another who is 19 and a rising 3L at a T10 law school, another who is 20 and rising 2nd year at a T10 medical school, and another who is 18 who got into the Md-PhD program at a T20 medical school. I also know people who are just as smart and talented as them who decided to stay on a normally-paced track who are currently really successful sophomores at top-notch undergrad universities(MIT, Caltech, Harvard, etc.) I'm in the middle of the extremes--I graduated HS a year early, but will still take 4 years for undergrad, and am going straight through. I'd say everyone is in general rather happy with their circumstances and not too overly worried about their chances at a happy, successful life. The former group just makes sure to leave the year of their birthdays off of facebook :wink: Do what you think is right for you, whether that's going straight through or taking time off.

super6
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby super6 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:58 pm

Just got my LSAT score, it's 162, I'm pretty sure I can do better but with a 162 what should I be shooting for?

09042014
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:21 pm

Quine wrote:
eandy wrote:
Quine wrote: Something that seems to elude members of this board is that time is our most precious resource, and some people, like you, don't want to squander it working at Walmart for 3 years because it might erase the bias adcomms might have against you for your age.

:roll:
Nobody is telling OP to work at walmart. OP needs to get a professional job or internship.


You're right, my bad. I must've forgotten the recent surge in demand for 19 yo BAs in the "professional job" sector.

:roll:

Is the market no longer in the shitter? Unemployment is 14% where I live.


The legal market sucks now too. The big difference, is if you miss OCI for 2L that biglaw job is forever off limits. If OP temps as an office drone for a year, or goes and gets a funded masters degree, there is no lasting harm.

09042014
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:25 pm

super6 wrote:Just got my LSAT score, it's 162, I'm pretty sure I can do better but with a 162 what should I be shooting for?


Testmaster LSAT Prep Class.

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paratactical
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby paratactical » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:31 pm

.
Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

super6
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Re: Will being 18 help or hurt my chances at a good school?

Postby super6 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:00 am

I figure that the worst case scenario if I can't do anything at OCI I'll just do a tour of duty with jag and then join a firm 1 year after everyone else but with 4 years of trial experience with the UCMJ.




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