3.6/169 Advice about ED

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Truth21
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3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby Truth21 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:41 pm

I have a 3.6/169 and I was just wondering where I should use up my ED. I am a VA resident and did my UG at UVA. I plan on retaking the LSAT in October because I think I messed up the setup of one of the games and got a chunk of questions wrong.

Should I wait to get back my Oct. LSAT score to apply ED or just do it on Sept. 1st? I don't really care where I go to school, as long as it is t14. My top choices are GULC and UVA though. What are my chances at GULC and UVA with and without ED?

Thanks.

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JWicker10
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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby JWicker10 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:52 pm

The ED will help a lot at both of those schools. I'd think if you ED at GULC you have a pretty good shot. If you want to be competitive at UVA however, I think 2 points on your LSAT would help a lot.

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DOOM
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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby DOOM » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:57 pm

Honestly, for most ED programs, it won't matter much whether you apply on Sept 1st or wait until after your Oct LSAT. With your numbers, Duke and Michigan are likely to accept you [strike]without[/strike] with ED and you would be pretty competitive at ED Chicago i think. If your goal is T14, you should have some T14 options and potentially some money from them if you do not ED and just apply to a decent spread of schools.

i agree with the above poster though, if you are set on any one of GULC or UVA in particular, an ED app would help you a lot.
Last edited by DOOM on Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:58 pm

Sign up for Oct LSAT and get a 170. You've got a shot at GULC, but 0% at UVA.

If you don't retake, I'd suggest EDing to Michigan. Their 169 median will help.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby DOOM » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:00 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Sign up for Oct LSAT and get a 170. You've got a shot at GULC, but 0% at UVA.

If you don't retake, I'd suggest EDing to Michigan. Their 169 median will help.


+1. the difference between a 169 and a 170 is huge, for GULC and Virginia in particular (i feel like for Duke as well). A 1-point increase in LSAT will change that 0% shot you currently have at regular decision UVA.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby jnorsky » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:01 pm

if i were you, and i didnt want to retake, then i would ED at either Duke or Michigan. Georgetown is likely out with those numbers and UVA is pretty much a 0% shot of getting in with nothing above a median whether you RD or ED and are not a URM. Otherwise, just do RD and see how it goes, your numbers are solid for Michigan, Cornell, Duke, Vanderbilt, etc.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby DOOM » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:03 pm

DOOM wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Sign up for Oct LSAT and get a 170. You've got a shot at GULC, but 0% at UVA.

If you don't retake, I'd suggest EDing to Michigan. Their 169 median will help.


+1. the difference between a 169 and a 170 is huge, for GULC and Virginia in particular (i feel like for Duke as well). A 1-point increase in LSAT will change that 0% shot you currently have at regular decision UVA.


oh, keep in mind that an ED to Michigan requires a summer start. and i do believe that with your current numbers you will get into Michigan if you apply early (Sept/Oct).

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:04 pm

DOOM wrote:
DOOM wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Sign up for Oct LSAT and get a 170. You've got a shot at GULC, but 0% at UVA.

If you don't retake, I'd suggest EDing to Michigan. Their 169 median will help.


+1. the difference between a 169 and a 170 is huge, for GULC and Virginia in particular (i feel like for Duke as well). A 1-point increase in LSAT will change that 0% shot you currently have at regular decision UVA.


oh, keep in mind that an ED to Michigan requires a summer start. and i do believe that with your current numbers you will get into Michigan if you apply early (Sept/Oct).


Good point. Ed'ing doesn't make sense for the OP, to any school really.

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JWicker10
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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby JWicker10 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:06 pm

I agree with everything said except the comment about Chicago.

With your current LSAT your chances at Chicago, ED or not, are just about 0%.

They were rejecting non-EDS in the 172-174 range like it was their job this year, and I don't think ED will help THAT much.

When I plugged your numbers into Law School Predictor it showed you as a deny there fyi.

I'd shoot for GULC as an ED if you'd be happy there. Your chances are very solid.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:08 pm

JWicker10 wrote:I agree with everything said except the comment about Chicago.

With your current LSAT your chances at Chicago, ED or not, are just about 0%.

They were rejecting non-EDS in the 172-174 range like it was their job this year, and I don't think ED will help THAT much.

When I plugged your numbers into Law School Predictor it showed you as a deny there fyi.

I'd shoot for GULC as an ED if you'd be happy there. Your chances are very solid.


GULC isn't even a t13 law school. Michigan is a better bet.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby JWicker10 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:11 pm

GULC isn't even a t13 law school. Michigan is a better bet.


He said he doesn't care where he goes as long as it is t14 (Georgetown rounds that out) and that UVA and Georgetown are his top 2 choices.

I thought the point of these threads was to help answer the poster's question?

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DOOM
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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby DOOM » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:14 pm

JWicker10 wrote:I agree with everything said except the comment about Chicago.

With your current LSAT your chances at Chicago, ED or not, are just about 0%.

They were rejecting non-EDS in the 172-174 range like it was their job this year, and I don't think ED will help THAT much.

When I plugged your numbers into Law School Predictor it showed you as a deny there fyi.

I'd shoot for GULC as an ED if you'd be happy there. Your chances are very solid.


I'm sticking with my Chicago comment. There would clearly be better, less-risky schools to ED to, but with a 3.6/169 there is a shot of getting Chicago ED. Dean Perry shows a lot of favoritism to the ED applicant pool and quite a few people with 3.5/3.6 GPAs and 169s were waitlisted this year from the ED pool. now i know that doesn't really translate into an acceptance (this year especially the uchicago wl is a black hole of despair), but chicago tends to be a bit more holistic in their admission practices. there are plenty of ppl in the 3.5x/169 range on the waitlist, as well as plenty of people with 172-174 lsats who were rejected.

I only mentioned chicago, cause i think OP has some (albeit small) shot of getting in with an ED, and i strongly believe it is the highest ranked school that he/she does have an ED shot at. if you are shooting for the stars, i would try there, but if you wanted to take the most risk-free path to a T14, there are other schools that would be a smarter ED choice.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby DOOM » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:19 pm

also, either way you put it, chances at Michigan would be strong if OP sent in his application in Sept/Oct. i personally, see Michigan as a better choice than GULC or UVA and Penn/Berkeley as Michigan's peers, the next step up would be Chicago, so why not give it a try with an ED app?

an increase on the october LSAT would change all this of course.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:21 pm

DOOM wrote:also, either way you put it, chances at Michigan would be strong if OP sent in his application in Sept/Oct. i personally, see Michigan as a better choice than GULC or UVA and Penn/Berkeley as Michigan's peers, the next step up would be Chicago, so why not give it a try with an ED app?

an increase on the october LSAT would change all this of course.


Yea, I agree with this logic. I really doubt Uchi is happening, but what the hell, it won't hurt.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby Quine » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:26 pm

DOOM wrote:
JWicker10 wrote:I agree with everything said except the comment about Chicago.

With your current LSAT your chances at Chicago, ED or not, are just about 0%.

They were rejecting non-EDS in the 172-174 range like it was their job this year, and I don't think ED will help THAT much.

When I plugged your numbers into Law School Predictor it showed you as a deny there fyi.

I'd shoot for GULC as an ED if you'd be happy there. Your chances are very solid.


I'm sticking with my Chicago comment. There would clearly be better, less-risky schools to ED to, but with a 3.6/169 there is a shot of getting Chicago ED. Dean Perry shows a lot of favoritism to the ED applicant pool and quite a few people with 3.5/3.6 GPAs and 169s were waitlisted this year from the ED pool. now i know that doesn't really translate into an acceptance (this year especially the uchicago wl is a black hole of despair), but chicago tends to be a bit more holistic in their admission practices. there are plenty of ppl in the 3.5x/169 range on the waitlist, as well as plenty of people with 172-174 lsats who were rejected.

I only mentioned chicago, cause i think OP has some (albeit small) shot of getting in with an ED, and i strongly believe it is the highest ranked school that he/she does have an ED shot at. if you are shooting for the stars, i would try there, but if you wanted to take the most risk-free path to a T14, there are other schools that would be a smarter ED choice.


Well you'd be wrong to do so. He has little if any shot at Chicago. To the bolded: Where did this guy say he had some incredible softs? What makes you think being holistic will work in his favor?

To the OP: I had very similar numbers and got waitlisted at Michigan, Duke, GULC, and even USC. Maybe something about my application hurt me, but I think people here are greatly overestimating your chances. You come from a better UG, and that will help you in some small, nearly imperceptible ways, but I think your outlook may be even more dismal than mine, given likely increases to the medians at these schools. Georgetown is absolutely not a sure thing, even with ED. I would guess your chances are actually better at UVA if only from their small in-state bump. Early action at Cornell will get you in there, but everywhere else is going to be a crapshoot with those numbers. If you want to get the biggest bang for your commitment, ED at Michigan or Duke and demonstrate specific interest in your essays. ED at UChicago is a waste, and ED at GULC or UVA is a huge gamble given that both your stats are below median.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby JWicker10 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:28 pm

He listed his top choices as GULC and UVA and said otherwise he doesn't care where he goes in t14. So...why would he waste his ED at Chicago, end up WLed, or worse, and then get WLed at GULC when he could've gotten in on an ED.

While I agree he has a shot at a higher ranked school, that ISN'T where he said he wants to go. So, why would he follow this logic?

I think too often TLS threads digress way too much from the question(s) of the original poster and then become all but useless.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby DOOM » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:35 pm

Quine wrote:
DOOM wrote:
JWicker10 wrote:I agree with everything said except the comment about Chicago.

With your current LSAT your chances at Chicago, ED or not, are just about 0%.

They were rejecting non-EDS in the 172-174 range like it was their job this year, and I don't think ED will help THAT much.

When I plugged your numbers into Law School Predictor it showed you as a deny there fyi.

I'd shoot for GULC as an ED if you'd be happy there. Your chances are very solid.


I'm sticking with my Chicago comment. There would clearly be better, less-risky schools to ED to, but with a 3.6/169 there is a shot of getting Chicago ED. Dean Perry shows a lot of favoritism to the ED applicant pool and quite a few people with 3.5/3.6 GPAs and 169s were waitlisted this year from the ED pool. now i know that doesn't really translate into an acceptance (this year especially the uchicago wl is a black hole of despair), but chicago tends to be a bit more holistic in their admission practices. there are plenty of ppl in the 3.5x/169 range on the waitlist, as well as plenty of people with 172-174 lsats who were rejected.

I only mentioned chicago, cause i think OP has some (albeit small) shot of getting in with an ED, and i strongly believe it is the highest ranked school that he/she does have an ED shot at. if you are shooting for the stars, i would try there, but if you wanted to take the most risk-free path to a T14, there are other schools that would be a smarter ED choice.


Well you'd be wrong to do so. He has little if any shot at Chicago. To the bolded: Where did this guy say he had some incredible softs? What makes you think being holistic will work in his favor?

To the OP: I had very similar numbers and got waitlisted at Michigan, Duke, GULC, and even USC. Maybe something about my application hurt me, but I think people here are greatly overestimating your chances. You come from a better UG, and that will help you in some small, nearly imperceptible ways, but I think your outlook may be even more dismal than mine, given likely increases to the medians at these schools. Georgetown is absolutely not a sure thing, even with ED. I would guess your chances are actually better at UVA if only from their small in-state bump. Early action at Cornell will get you in there, but everywhere else is going to be a crapshoot with those numbers. If you want to get the biggest bang for your commitment, ED at Michigan or Duke and demonstrate specific interest in your essays. ED at UChicago is a waste, and ED at GULC or UVA is a huge gamble given that both your stats are below median.


respectfully, i stand by my original thoughts (even if they are more optimistic). i mentioned holistic, simply to explain the observation that many people with 172-174 range LSATs were being denied from Chicago. not really to imply that OP would be favored by a holistic process, but to show that admissions at Chicago is a crapshoot to begin with. I also have similar numbers to OP and applied ED to Chicago and was waitlisted. was it a huge waste? i haven't found out yet. (although, sadly things dont look to good) but, im glad i did it because chicago was my top choice and was the highest ranked school i had any hope of getting into (HYS and Columbia were just out of the question). those who were ED -> WL were also granted interviews and there was definitely a demonstrated favoritism towards students committed enough to ED.

ending my little rant/detour, i agree that OP said UVA/GULC were his top choices, but it seemed like an open-ended enough original post to warrant other recommendations about EDing to schools in the T14. sorry if its not useful to him/her.

Also, be wary of Cornell's EA program. Check out the "EA deferred crew" thread and you will quickly learn why. a 3.6/169 is a pretty safe bet for Cornell regular decision.
Last edited by DOOM on Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby Quine » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:35 pm

DOOM wrote:Honestly, for most ED programs, it won't matter much whether you apply on Sept 1st or wait until after your Oct LSAT. With your numbers, Duke and Michigan are likely to accept you without ED and you would be pretty competitive at ED Chicago i think. If your goal is T14, you should have some T14 options and potentially some money from them if you do not ED and just apply to a decent spread of schools.

i agree with the above poster though, if you are set on any one of GULC or UVA in particular, an ED app would help you a lot.


This is also obviously false:

http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

http://duke.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

This year, those numbers would be about 70% WL and 30% admit at Michigan. At Duke, maybe 10% reject, 85% WL, and 5% admit. With a 169 and GPA below 3.77, there is only one person on LSN who was accepted, and they applied ED.

So no, Duke and Michigan are actually very unlikely to accept you without ED.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby DOOM » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:38 pm

Quine wrote:
DOOM wrote:Honestly, for most ED programs, it won't matter much whether you apply on Sept 1st or wait until after your Oct LSAT. With your numbers, Duke and Michigan are likely to accept you without ED and you would be pretty competitive at ED Chicago i think. If your goal is T14, you should have some T14 options and potentially some money from them if you do not ED and just apply to a decent spread of schools.

i agree with the above poster though, if you are set on any one of GULC or UVA in particular, an ED app would help you a lot.


This is also obviously false:

http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

http://duke.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

This year, those numbers would be about 70% WL and 30% admit at Michigan. At Duke, maybe 10% reject, 85% WL, and 5% admit. With a 169 and GPA below 3.77, there is only one person on LSN who was accepted, and they applied ED.

So no, Duke and Michigan are actually very unlikely to accept you without ED.


sorry, that was typo, i meant to say WITH ED.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby Quine » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:39 pm

DOOM wrote:
Quine wrote:
DOOM wrote:
JWicker10 wrote:I agree with everything said except the comment about Chicago.

With your current LSAT your chances at Chicago, ED or not, are just about 0%.

They were rejecting non-EDS in the 172-174 range like it was their job this year, and I don't think ED will help THAT much.

When I plugged your numbers into Law School Predictor it showed you as a deny there fyi.

I'd shoot for GULC as an ED if you'd be happy there. Your chances are very solid.


I'm sticking with my Chicago comment. There would clearly be better, less-risky schools to ED to, but with a 3.6/169 there is a shot of getting Chicago ED. Dean Perry shows a lot of favoritism to the ED applicant pool and quite a few people with 3.5/3.6 GPAs and 169s were waitlisted this year from the ED pool. now i know that doesn't really translate into an acceptance (this year especially the uchicago wl is a black hole of despair), but chicago tends to be a bit more holistic in their admission practices. there are plenty of ppl in the 3.5x/169 range on the waitlist, as well as plenty of people with 172-174 lsats who were rejected.

I only mentioned chicago, cause i think OP has some (albeit small) shot of getting in with an ED, and i strongly believe it is the highest ranked school that he/she does have an ED shot at. if you are shooting for the stars, i would try there, but if you wanted to take the most risk-free path to a T14, there are other schools that would be a smarter ED choice.


Well you'd be wrong to do so. He has little if any shot at Chicago. To the bolded: Where did this guy say he had some incredible softs? What makes you think being holistic will work in his favor?

To the OP: I had very similar numbers and got waitlisted at Michigan, Duke, GULC, and even USC. Maybe something about my application hurt me, but I think people here are greatly overestimating your chances. You come from a better UG, and that will help you in some small, nearly imperceptible ways, but I think your outlook may be even more dismal than mine, given likely increases to the medians at these schools. Georgetown is absolutely not a sure thing, even with ED. I would guess your chances are actually better at UVA if only from their small in-state bump. Early action at Cornell will get you in there, but everywhere else is going to be a crapshoot with those numbers. If you want to get the biggest bang for your commitment, ED at Michigan or Duke and demonstrate specific interest in your essays. ED at UChicago is a waste, and ED at GULC or UVA is a huge gamble given that both your stats are below median.


respectfully, i stand by my original thoughts (even if they are more optimistic). i mentioned holistic, simply to explain the observation that many people with 172-174 range LSATs were being denied from Chicago. not really to imply that OP would be favored by a holistic process, but to show that admissions at Chicago is a crapshoot to begin with. I also have similar numbers to OP and applied ED to Chicago and was waitlisted. was it a huge waste? i haven't found out yet. (although, sadly things dont look to good) but, im glad i did it because chicago was my top choice and was the highest ranked school i had any hope of getting into (HYS and Columbia were just out of the question). those who were ED -> WL were also granted interviews and their was definitely a demonstrated favoritism towards students committed enough to ED.

Also, be wary of Cornell's EA program. Check out the "EA deferred crew" thread and you will quickly learn why. a 3.6/169 is a pretty safe bet for Cornell regular decision.


So you're advising this guy to do what you did (and a year later, with presumably higher medians) after it achieved for you.... an assortment of waitlist offers? Do you think that's good advice? Do you think you should be telling him to squander his ED like you did?

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby holydonkey » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:40 pm

I pretty much have exactly your numbers. VA resident ED'd to Virginia - waitlist. regular decision - in at Mich. Decided to go there. I'd take Mich over Gtown. UVA's gonna be tough. Chicago will be tougher. I say apply to Michigan, as long as you're awesome, you'll get in. If you aren't awesome, enjoy Cornell. Apply early!

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:41 pm

If it wasn't for your in-state residency, I would say you would absolutely need to apply ED at UVA to get in. However, they might take you without it.
As for Georgetown, it's kind of 50/50. You have the typical stats of a typical GULC student- however, many with those stats don't get in. I'd say ED would give you a boost but you can get in without it.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:42 pm

OK, the OP needs to retake. He is just on the verge of getting into UVA, and just a bit off of NYU.

This isn't 2006 anymore, the gap between CCN and MVPDNCG has widened by a lot. 70% of CCN students were still getting offers, that cannot be said of the lower T13.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby DOOM » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:44 pm

Quine wrote:
So you're advising this guy to do what you did (and a year later, with presumably higher medians) after it achieved for you.... an assortment of waitlist offers? Do you think that's good advice? Do you think you should be telling him to squander his ED like you did?


i dont know. its up to him/her. maybe they have zero interest in chicago or other schools. just trying to help, and offer an option. we haven't even heard from OP about what he/she thinks of any of our comments yet. i honestly didn't think i recommended anything too out of line. risky maybe, but i made that clear. we should probably just get back to advising about UVA/GULC. and yes, the best case scenario would be a couple/few points increase on that october LSAT.
Last edited by DOOM on Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 3.6/169 Advice about ED

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:44 pm

Dr. Strangelove wrote:If it wasn't for your in-state residency, I would say you would absolutely need to apply ED at UVA to get in. However, they might take you without it.
As for Georgetown, it's kind of 50/50. You have the typical stats of a typical GULC student- however, many with those stats don't get in. I'd say ED would give you a boost but you can get in without it.


If you don't have a 170 or a 3.85 you don't have a shot at UVa if you have white skin.




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