Why use LSN?

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entrechatsix
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby entrechatsix » Mon May 24, 2010 9:51 am

is this real? you don't have to look at it fenway.

/thread

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Stupendous_Man
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby Stupendous_Man » Mon May 24, 2010 9:57 am

For what it's worth, LSN was spot on for me in terms of acceptances and scholarships, plus it's easy to access general information about every school I was interested in.

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Janus
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby Janus » Mon May 24, 2010 9:59 am

I found LSN to be spot on as well. I only applied to two schools, but I was able to guestimate my scholarship from each school based on what others had reported. For what it's worth, my guestimate was spot on TO THE DOLLAR.

Edit: I also looked at the information that is reported on LSAC. I found it to not be as useful because it doesn't tell you what combination of LSAT/GPA received those scholarship offers.

Granted, LSN is a self-report system, but I found that a lot of registered users would disclose when they fudged their numbers a bit.

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Grizz
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby Grizz » Mon May 24, 2010 11:36 am

fenway wrote:I don't know, but something tells me you need a high gpa/lsat for any good school


Not necessarily; for exampe, NU will take high LSAT/low GPA splitters with work experience who ED, and UVA will take people just above one median who ED. You won't find this in the score ranges, but it's pretty easy to see on LSN.

say they had a 150 and a 165. they list a 165. that's not the same as taking it 1x and getting 165.


For the purposes of admission to pretty much every school except Boalt and the T6, they are the same.

or, say someone transferred after soph yr. they had a 3.0 at A, but now they have a 4.0 at B. I think a decent number of people might feel that their gpa is more accurately reflected by B.


Unlikely, because the box asks for your LSAC GPA. 4.0 would not be this person's LSAC GPA. Your best interest is to post numbers correctly so you can see what happened to people with the same or similar numbers.

im not saying this is always the case, but you don't encounter the same issues with taking an intuitive approach to the ranges (if I have 25% gpa, i probably need about 75% lsat--probably somewhat accurate) i can see the whole thing about "splitter friendly" and w/e, but tracking LSN to prove that is a waste of time.


Yes, you do encounter those issues. Take Vandy, for example. 25%tile GPA is 3.5, but Vanderbilt seldom let anyone in under that GPA who was not URM, which you can see from LSN. You're not using it to "prove" anything, you're using it to plan where to apply and get a rough sense of your reaches, targets, and safeties so you don't waste hundreds on apps.

Forget LSN to your detriment.

fenway
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby fenway » Mon May 24, 2010 1:10 pm

Forget LSN to your detriment.


--if you are going to/have already applied to the school, what advantage does looking at LSN give you? there's no benefit if it was correct (unless you want to say "I knew it!" after an acceptance) and on the flip side it could only increase your sense of disappointment/frustration (but LSN said I'd get in...) I see what you all are saying and I'll concede that LSN is a stronger measure than I originally portrayed it as. But the whole idea of tracking projections and predicting outcomes when you likely already know you are going to apply anyways is kind of silly (and potentially to your detriment). If you fall in either/both ranges then you should apply given the relative cost compared to the potential gain. 10% odds at your reach school is worth the 100-300 bills. you don't need LSN for that. otherwise it seems like just about as much of a waste of time as me starting this thread. i guess we all have our vices

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entrechatsix
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby entrechatsix » Mon May 24, 2010 1:20 pm

fenway wrote:Forget LSN to your detriment.


--if you are going to/have already applied to the school, what advantage does looking at LSN give you? there's no benefit if it was correct (unless you want to say "I knew it!" after an acceptance) and on the flip side it could only increase your sense of disappointment/frustration (but LSN said I'd get in...) I see what you all are saying and I'll concede that LSN is a stronger measure than I originally portrayed it as. But the whole idea of tracking projections and predicting outcomes when you likely already know you are going to apply anyways is kind of silly (and potentially to your detriment). If you fall in either/both ranges then you should apply given the relative cost compared to the potential gain. 10% odds at your reach school is worth the 100-300 bills. you don't need LSN for that. otherwise it seems like just about as much of a waste of time as me starting this thread. i guess we all have our vices


curiosity, boredom, fun, killing time...

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby T14_Scholly » Mon May 24, 2010 1:22 pm

romothesavior wrote: It really, really helps to alleviate some stress to look at things like LSN and LSP.


This is highly debatable.

creatinganalt
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby creatinganalt » Mon May 24, 2010 1:30 pm

OP seems kinda dumb

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon May 24, 2010 2:19 pm

fenway wrote:Forget LSN to your detriment.


--if you are going to/have already applied to the school, what advantage does looking at LSN give you? there's no benefit if it was correct (unless you want to say "I knew it!" after an acceptance) and on the flip side it could only increase your sense of disappointment/frustration (but LSN said I'd get in...) I see what you all are saying and I'll concede that LSN is a stronger measure than I originally portrayed it as. But the whole idea of tracking projections and predicting outcomes when you likely already know you are going to apply anyways is kind of silly (and potentially to your detriment). If you fall in either/both ranges then you should apply given the relative cost compared to the potential gain. 10% odds at your reach school is worth the 100-300 bills. you don't need LSN for that. otherwise it seems like just about as much of a waste of time as me starting this thread. i guess we all have our vices


ITE, $$ matters :P

that being said, i liked LSN because of how quickly it was updated (i.e. this cycle)...for things like HLS phone interviews, LSN + TLS gave me a very clear picture of patterns...types of ppl getting early JR1's...small to large batches...when acceptances GENERALLY come in a given cycle (a few days before thanksgiving for HLS)...things that LSAC or the law school website cant tell you.

now of course most of the above really only applies to HLS, which is predominantly what i used LSN for, but even just that for a free website is pretty dang useful lol.

lawschoolstudent85
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby lawschoolstudent85 » Mon May 24, 2010 2:20 pm

...
Last edited by lawschoolstudent85 on Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Encyclopedia Brown
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby Encyclopedia Brown » Mon May 24, 2010 2:24 pm

rad law wrote:The above is Vandy, by the way. Forgot to mention that.

I was trying to figure out which one it was, because I saw my dot on it.

fenway
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby fenway » Mon May 24, 2010 3:51 pm

creatinganalt wrote:OP seems kinda dumb



--I'm not very smart*


you got me. im being paid with money and/or drugs to sabotage LSN... I don't know of a competiting site--but i'd gladly bash that too. it may be unreasonable on my part, but it's always just struck me the wrong way to see people putting so much faith in LSN. there is no real certainty in the admission process, why look for it? someone above agreed that it is questionable whether the site actually "relieves" stress anyways. if it is "fun" for people to play around with then it doesn't matter, but it just seems ridiculous when someone on TLS earnestly ask what his or her chances are and someone else on the forum replies, "well I checked LSN, and theres some app with X gpa/ Y lsat and they did/didn't get in--so now you're money or f*cked." (not everyone does this obviously but I've seen it numerous times). again ill concede that the trends have some worth, but if you already have decided to apply then why bother? you put down the fee, give yourself a break and distance from the process until you are sitting down w/ your offered options on the table. is that part at least agreeable?

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bk1
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby bk1 » Mon May 24, 2010 4:06 pm

fenway wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:OP seems kinda dumb



--I'm not very smart*


you got me. im being paid with money and/or drugs to sabotage LSN... I don't know of a competiting site--but i'd gladly bash that too. it may be unreasonable on my part, but it's always just struck me the wrong way to see people putting so much faith in LSN. there is no real certainty in the admission process, why look for it? someone above agreed that it is questionable whether the site actually "relieves" stress anyways. if it is "fun" for people to play around with then it doesn't matter, but it just seems ridiculous when someone on TLS earnestly ask what his or her chances are and someone else on the forum replies, "well I checked LSN, and theres some app with X gpa/ Y lsat and they did/didn't get in--so now you're money or f*cked." (not everyone does this obviously but I've seen it numerous times). again ill concede that the trends have some worth, but if you already have decided to apply then why bother? you put down the fee, give yourself a break and distance from the process until you are sitting down w/ your offered options on the table. is that part at least agreeable?


What about this scenario for some random person:

My numbers are good enough for MVP (because LSN shows this) and not good enough for CCN (because LSN shows this). I do not know which of these schools I prefer, but would like to visit them to figure out which I have a better feel for. Because of LSN I can avoid visiting CCN and instead focus on visiting MVP. Or conversely I can research thoroughly investigate the employment statistics of MVP and not CCN (because thoroughly finding accurate data can be difficult) and thus LSN has saved me some time.

These things take time and you cannot always wait until you have decisions to plan out visits to schools or the time it takes to accurately research data from recent employment years.

fenway
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby fenway » Mon May 24, 2010 4:32 pm

bk1 wrote:
fenway wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:OP seems kinda dumb



--I'm not very smart*


you got me. im being paid with money and/or drugs to sabotage LSN... I don't know of a competiting site--but i'd gladly bash that too. it may be unreasonable on my part, but it's always just struck me the wrong way to see people putting so much faith in LSN. there is no real certainty in the admission process, why look for it? someone above agreed that it is questionable whether the site actually "relieves" stress anyways. if it is "fun" for people to play around with then it doesn't matter, but it just seems ridiculous when someone on TLS earnestly ask what his or her chances are and someone else on the forum replies, "well I checked LSN, and theres some app with X gpa/ Y lsat and they did/didn't get in--so now you're money or f*cked." (not everyone does this obviously but I've seen it numerous times). again ill concede that the trends have some worth, but if you already have decided to apply then why bother? you put down the fee, give yourself a break and distance from the process until you are sitting down w/ your offered options on the table. is that part at least agreeable?


What about this scenario for some random person:

My numbers are good enough for MVP (because LSN shows this) and not good enough for CCN (because LSN shows this). I do not know which of these schools I prefer, but would like to visit them to figure out which I have a better feel for. Because of LSN I can avoid visiting CCN and instead focus on visiting MVP. Or conversely I can research thoroughly investigate the employment statistics of MVP and not CCN (because thoroughly finding accurate data can be difficult) and thus LSN has saved me some time.

These things take time and you cannot always wait until you have decisions to plan out visits to schools or the time it takes to accurately research data from recent employment years.


--I'm confused. do you mean you'd spend the money to visit schools before you've been accepted? really? i guess that may be where I'm coming up with a disconnect. and dude cmon it takes like a day to go through employment stats/click through your dream firms websites to see where lawyers have gone to school. Not trying to be a dick, I just don't see it. Again I may just be dumb though

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon May 24, 2010 4:34 pm

also...it is a FREE site. i mean, i dont see what you LOSE by going to it lol.

if OP is just talking about AFTER a person has already decided (or already has) applied to x school, i think for the most part then, besides the above scenario about visiting the school and maybe some anecdotal evidence for $$, it is primarily a stress reliever

maybe for you it doesnt relieve stress, but for some ppl it does. why do they use LSN then? because it relieves their stress and it is free and relatively hassle-free

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romothesavior
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby romothesavior » Mon May 24, 2010 4:34 pm

We have given you a lot of great reasons to use LSN, fenway. I'm baffled that you still don't get it. If you don't want to use it, fine then... just ignore it, but get off the issue. You need to relax, my man.

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Barolo
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby Barolo » Mon May 24, 2010 4:41 pm

Yeah, I don't get OP. Seems like a misallocation of passion. LSN's pretty helpful. My profile is not fudged in the least. I hope that my information can be as helpful to the kids applying this year as past information was for me.

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Grizz
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby Grizz » Mon May 24, 2010 4:50 pm

fenway wrote:--I'm confused. do you mean you'd spend the money to visit schools before you've been accepted? really?


It marginally helps your chances of getting in. Also, you may not have time to visit before the deposit deadline, which for many places is April 15.

i guess that may be where I'm coming up with a disconnect. and dude cmon it takes like a day to go through employment stats/click through your dream firms websites to see where lawyers have gone to school. Not trying to be a dick, I just don't see it. Again I may just be dumb though


Where firms hired many years ago =/= necessarily where they draw from now. For example, many more Stetson (FL) grads were hired in the past than now, which you wouldn't see from just looking at just firms.

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bk1
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby bk1 » Mon May 24, 2010 4:51 pm

fenway wrote:--I'm confused. do you mean you'd spend the money to visit schools before you've been accepted? really? i guess that may be where I'm coming up with a disconnect. and dude cmon it takes like a day to go through employment stats/click through your dream firms websites to see where lawyers have gone to school. Not trying to be a dick, I just don't see it. Again I may just be dumb though


I'll grant you that the employment argument is weak. However, you're saying it is unreasonable for a 3.9/178 to visit Stanford and Harvard if they had to choose between them? Or a 3.5/172 URM to visit CCN? I'm not saying a 2.5/160 should go check out MVP.

When your odds of being accepted are high, I do not see why spending money to visit schools is bad. Spending a few hundred/thousand on some airfare is nothing compared to the 6 figure debt and 3 years you are about invest in a JD.

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HazelEyes
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby HazelEyes » Mon May 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Na_Swatch wrote:Why do people eat Bananas? The relative lack of nutrition & vitamins and the supposedly inferior taste in comparison to Oranges make it a no brainer. You're doing yourself a disservice each time you eat one. It's like acting as dumb as a monkey.


The high levels of potassium make up for any so called inferior taste.

d34d9823
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby d34d9823 » Mon May 24, 2010 5:00 pm

fenway wrote:--I'm confused. do you mean you'd spend the money to visit schools before you've been accepted? really? i guess that may be where I'm coming up with a disconnect. and dude cmon it takes like a day to go through employment stats/click through your dream firms websites to see where lawyers have gone to school. Not trying to be a dick, I just don't see it. Again I may just be dumb though

I agree his scenario isn't great, but in a similar vein, LSN gives you a good idea where you should apply. At $80 a pop, that's a big deal to a lot of people.

stad2234
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby stad2234 » Mon May 24, 2010 5:12 pm

LSN also give you an idea of what is happening with admissions at your schools THIS YEAR and not just a prediction based on previous cycles.

creatinganalt
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby creatinganalt » Mon May 24, 2010 5:15 pm

fenway wrote:

--I'm not very smart*


QFT

fenway
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby fenway » Mon May 24, 2010 5:27 pm

bk1 wrote:
fenway wrote:--I'm confused. do you mean you'd spend the money to visit schools before you've been accepted? really? i guess that may be where I'm coming up with a disconnect. and dude cmon it takes like a day to go through employment stats/click through your dream firms websites to see where lawyers have gone to school. Not trying to be a dick, I just don't see it. Again I may just be dumb though


I'll grant you that the employment argument is weak. However, you're saying it is unreasonable for a 3.9/178 to visit Stanford and Harvard if they had to choose between them? Or a 3.5/172 URM to visit CCN? I'm not saying a 2.5/160 should go check out MVP.

When your odds of being accepted are high, I do not see why spending money to visit schools is bad. Spending a few hundred/thousand on some airfare is nothing compared to the 6 figure debt and 3 years you are about invest in a JD.


--not unacceptable, I'd just wait for the letter before visiting, no matter what numbers I had (unless it was local). that's me though. if I (or anyone) ended up getting into Stanford, I think I'd figure out some way of visiting after being accepted--squeeze it in somewhere, somehow... and if someone is reluctant to spend $80 on an app, how is he or she going to stomach 180k for LS? not saying 80/app is cheap, but in the scheme of things it is kind of negligible. perhaps you could petition LSN for a refund of your app if you didn't get in though. just kidding

i think it's time to "/" myself, this has gotten ridiculous. for all those who love lsn, enjoy.

d34d9823
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Re: Why use LSN?

Postby d34d9823 » Mon May 24, 2010 5:30 pm

fenway wrote:
bk1 wrote:
fenway wrote:--I'm confused. do you mean you'd spend the money to visit schools before you've been accepted? really? i guess that may be where I'm coming up with a disconnect. and dude cmon it takes like a day to go through employment stats/click through your dream firms websites to see where lawyers have gone to school. Not trying to be a dick, I just don't see it. Again I may just be dumb though


I'll grant you that the employment argument is weak. However, you're saying it is unreasonable for a 3.9/178 to visit Stanford and Harvard if they had to choose between them? Or a 3.5/172 URM to visit CCN? I'm not saying a 2.5/160 should go check out MVP.

When your odds of being accepted are high, I do not see why spending money to visit schools is bad. Spending a few hundred/thousand on some airfare is nothing compared to the 6 figure debt and 3 years you are about invest in a JD.


--not unacceptable, I'd just wait for the letter before visiting, no matter what numbers I had (unless it was local). that's me though. if I (or anyone) ended up getting into Stanford, I think I'd figure out some way of visiting after being accepted--squeeze it in somewhere, somehow... and if someone is reluctant to spend $80 on an app, how is he or she going to stomach 180k for LS? not saying 80/app is cheap, but in the scheme of things it is kind of negligible. perhaps you could petition LSN for a refund of your app if you didn't get in though. just kidding

i think it's time to "/" myself, this has gotten ridiculous. for all those who love lsn, enjoy.


As dumb as fenway has been in the rest of this thread, I actually agree with him here. Get accepted, narrow to top 2-3, visit. Anything else risks wasting money and getting your heart set on a school that you won't attend (in either direction, whether being rejected by an expected accept, or being accepted by a reach and having to pass say Chicago for Harvard).




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