T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

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wonderer
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T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby wonderer » Sat May 15, 2010 11:55 am

Please chance me? My aims: Georgetown, Northwestern, Chicago, Michigan, NYU, Columbia, and, yes, even Harvard ("Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll still land among the stars.").

I'll be a junior in the fall and was advised to take the LSAT in February. What LSAT will I need to reach to get into these schools?

Arab female
Political science major at a state university
GPA: 3.963 (ONE A-, man).

Softs, if needed (I hate the idea of selling myself but to do what I want to do in life I'll have to aim for a good program):
Since freshman year I've been a columnist for the college paper
Since freshman year I have also worked in the undergrad legal studies department (with lawyers and judges as the part-time faculty) and because of that I helped the head with a law textbook
I am also a research assistant of a professor who is writing a political science textbook and I also intend to do undergraduate research next summer
I am in the University honors program and have joined three other honors societies thus far (Phi Eta Sigma, Lambda Sigma, and NSCS)
Involved in the religious community and organization at the uni and have taken part in interfaith forums and dialogues
Also a political activist and organizer

And, not that this necessarily makes me more worthy than the next hard working student, but if it's worth mentioning, I've been in some tough situations which made me stay local for undergrad, including responsibilities in a low-income, single parent family. So in addition I'm trying to improve on these circumstances.

So if you could please give me some advice on how well I need to do on the LSAT for a shot. If I can get the score, can I get in?
Last edited by wonderer on Sat May 22, 2010 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MeechiganBoy
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby MeechiganBoy » Sat May 15, 2010 12:08 pm

170 gives you a good shot at any if them

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Veyron
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby Veyron » Sat May 15, 2010 12:12 pm

Apply to Stanford and Berk you idiot, they will drink your GPA up like a milkshape even if you only hit the high 160's.

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wonderer
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby wonderer » Sat May 15, 2010 12:18 pm

Thank you. I had considered Stanford and Boalt. I doubt traveling to California will be feasible...I suppose I will apply anyway.

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legalease9
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby legalease9 » Sat May 15, 2010 12:19 pm

With a 170+ on the LSAT I see you getting into Harvard, based on your softs/ethnicity. The lower you go on the LSAT the weaker of course.

Yeah, definitely apply to Sanford and Boalt.

thatsnotmyname
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby thatsnotmyname » Sat May 15, 2010 12:23 pm

Your GPA is amazing. A 170 will get you into a lot of t14s. Just do your best on the LSAT and go from there. Also any reason in particular you want to take it in February of your Junior year? It's more typical to take it in the June after your Junior year. It will leave you more free time to study and your LSAT will be disclosed, meaning you will get to see the questions and your answers after the test. You will be able to go back and see what you missed, which is nice. You cannot do that with the February test, as it is always undisclosed.

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BlueCivic
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby BlueCivic » Sat May 15, 2010 12:28 pm

The stars are way above the moon. If you miss the moon you'll end up orbiting around the moon, floating in space, or falling back to earth, depending on how close you come.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat May 15, 2010 12:38 pm

BlueCivic wrote:The stars are way above the moon. If you miss the moon you'll end up orbiting around the moon, floating in space, or falling back to earth, depending on how close you come.


dont forget, on the way back down, you'll have to burn through the atmosphere :P jk

yeah 170+ gives you a very good shot at almost all of those schools

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Veyron
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby Veyron » Sat May 15, 2010 12:42 pm

BlueCivic wrote:The stars are way above the moon. If you miss the moon you'll end up orbiting around the moon, floating in space, or falling back to earth, depending on how close you come.


FROMTHEEARTHTOTHEMOONPONED!

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wonderer
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby wonderer » Sat May 15, 2010 1:03 pm

thatsnotmyname wrote:Your GPA is amazing. A 170 will get you into a lot of t14s. Just do your best on the LSAT and go from there. Also any reason in particular you want to take it in February of your Junior year? It's more typical to take it in the June after your Junior year. It will leave you more free time to study and your LSAT will be disclosed, meaning you will get to see the questions and your answers after the test. You will be able to go back and see what you missed, which is nice. You cannot do that with the February test, as it is always undisclosed.


Thanks, yeah, I've purchased prep books, hoping to improve on my test taking abilities. I was advised by a LSAT instructor and wanted to take it earlier to see how well I can do, but that is a good point I wasn't aware of. I'll probably need to see how far I can get on prepping and if I'm ready by then.

The general consensus seems to be 170+. Oh boy. Thanks, all. I'd better start prepping hard...

BlueCivic wrote:The stars are way above the moon. If you miss the moon you'll end up orbiting around the moon, floating in space, or falling back to earth, depending on how close you come.

You can tell that to Les Brown...or my 5th grade teacher. lol

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Grizz
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby Grizz » Sat May 15, 2010 1:13 pm

Do your best on the LSAT, then come back when you have a score.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat May 15, 2010 1:15 pm

wonderer wrote:
thatsnotmyname wrote:Your GPA is amazing. A 170 will get you into a lot of t14s. Just do your best on the LSAT and go from there. Also any reason in particular you want to take it in February of your Junior year? It's more typical to take it in the June after your Junior year. It will leave you more free time to study and your LSAT will be disclosed, meaning you will get to see the questions and your answers after the test. You will be able to go back and see what you missed, which is nice. You cannot do that with the February test, as it is always undisclosed.


Thanks, yeah, I've purchased prep books, hoping to improve on my test taking abilities. I was advised by a LSAT instructor and wanted to take it earlier to see how well I can do, but that is a good point I wasn't aware of. I'll probably need to see how far I can get on prepping and if I'm ready by then.

The general consensus seems to be 170+. Oh boy. Thanks, all. I'd better start prepping hard...

BlueCivic wrote:The stars are way above the moon. If you miss the moon you'll end up orbiting around the moon, floating in space, or falling back to earth, depending on how close you come.

You can tell that to Les Brown...or my 5th grade teacher. lol


well to be fair, the 170+ was really for you to have a decent shot at the tip top of those T14 schools you listed...for Georgetown it'd be lower like 168-169 for a very solid shot (same for Michigan and Northwestern...assuming for NW your work experience is up to par...they really love that WE)

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Bosque
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby Bosque » Sat May 15, 2010 1:29 pm

Also, everyone keep in mind that is only half her GPA. She still has two years to screw it up. Of course, she is political science, so I am not sure the upper level classes are actually harder.

If you can keep your GPA up, do it.

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Dr. Strangelove
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Sat May 15, 2010 2:37 pm

Based on what T14s have accepted in the past

163: UC-Berkeley, Cornell
164: Northwestern (with work experience.. otherwise, out of luck)
165: Penn, Duke, Georgetown
166: Michigan, UVA
167: Chicago
168: Stanford, NYU
170: Columbia
172: Yale, Harvard

Unless you're not particularly analytical or logical- that GPA has you in a pretty good place to get into the T14. Keep it up for the next two years!

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DoubleChecks
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat May 15, 2010 3:01 pm

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Based on what T14s have accepted in the past

163: UC-Berkeley, Cornell
164: Northwestern (with work experience.. otherwise, out of luck)
165: Penn, Duke, Georgetown
166: Michigan, UVA
167: Chicago
168: Stanford, NYU
170: Columbia
172: Yale, Harvard

Unless you're not particularly analytical or logical- that GPA has you in a pretty good place to get into the T14. Keep it up for the next two years!


i would say the above scores give you a shot, but not a good one...esp. w/ some of the first schools mentioned

a 165 + 3.96 for schools like Georgetown or Duke does not equal good chances, and by good i mean better than a coin flip, esp. ITE

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wonderer
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby wonderer » Sat May 15, 2010 7:36 pm

Thanks, everyone.

Bosque wrote:Also, everyone keep in mind that is only half her GPA. She still has two years to screw it up. Of course, she is political science, so I am not sure the upper level classes are actually harder.

If you can keep your GPA up, do it.


Yes, I do intend to keep it up. The wretched math class hurt me enough...

DoubleChecks wrote:
Dr. Strangelove wrote:Based on what T14s have accepted in the past

163: UC-Berkeley, Cornell
164: Northwestern (with work experience.. otherwise, out of luck)
165: Penn, Duke, Georgetown
166: Michigan, UVA
167: Chicago
168: Stanford, NYU
170: Columbia
172: Yale, Harvard

Unless you're not particularly analytical or logical- that GPA has you in a pretty good place to get into the T14. Keep it up for the next two years!


i would say the above scores give you a shot, but not a good one...esp. w/ some of the first schools mentioned

a 165 + 3.96 for schools like Georgetown or Duke does not equal good chances, and by good i mean better than a coin flip, esp. ITE


Yeah, this still gives me a good idea for the minimum. So I anticipate having to score a little higher than these in order for a good chance and with perhaps some sort of financial aid...

My only setback is that standardized tests aren't a strength of mine, which is why I need to put so much time into prepping.

And rad law, you're right in that none of this matters until I come back with a score. I just wanted to get an idea.

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wonderer
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby wonderer » Sat May 22, 2010 9:58 am

Hello again,

Thanks again for the responses. They've been helpful.

I have another concern. I looked up the ranking of my university and, well, it's definitely NOT a top public university. I didn't realize it because of the family situation I had to stay at home and it was the really only option at the time. But I did read some information on this school alumni and there have been a few students who have went on to attend top graduate schools, namely schools like Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Berkeley, a couple of students who have been accepted to Yale in the past, and one girl who went to Harvard law school. It has happened but it's not common.

I'm still concerned about the ranking of my university because I don't believe a 4.0 here would be the equivalent of a 4.0 at a top university.

Do you think this will impact my chances? I know there's plenty of competition from other universities and I'm wondering what I can do to make myself stand out even more like other students in the past must have done...

Thanks.

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thickfreakness
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby thickfreakness » Sat May 22, 2010 10:21 am

wonderer wrote:Hello again,

Thanks again for the responses. They've been helpful.

I have another concern. I looked up the ranking of my university and, well, it's definitely NOT a top public university. I didn't realize it because of the family situation I had to stay at home and it was the really only option at the time. But I did read some information on this school alumni and there have been a few students who have went on to attend top graduate schools, namely schools like Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Berkeley, a couple of students who have been accepted to Yale in the past, and one girl who went to Harvard law school. It has happened but it's not common.

I'm still concerned about the ranking of my university because I don't believe a 4.0 here would be the equivalent of a 4.0 at a top university.

Do you think this will impact my chances? I know there's plenty of competition from other universities and I'm wondering what I can do to make myself stand out even more like other students in the past must have done...

Thanks.


Your reasoning is sound, but your GPA will be evaluated fairly consistently with other candidates' GPAs during the cycle. Admissions committees might give a slight bump for a very difficult major (read as: engineering or a grueling computer science program), but outside of that it really doesn't matter, especially when you have such an elite GPA to begin with. I went through two cycles with a GPA similar to your current one from a state school and I don't think I was penalized at all for my undergraduate institution's lack of prestige.

doublefocus4
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby doublefocus4 » Sat May 22, 2010 10:44 am

Congrats on your fantastic academic record. The advice I have for you is to focus on the things that you can improve on at the moment ie. your LSAT score. Your undergraduate institution's ranking will have a very marginal effect on your overall chances. Go to the "LSAT Prep" section of this forum and drown yourself in the info available there, esp the strategies of people who scored 168+. You should also consider taking the LSAT in June or September instead, that way you get adequate prep time. My situation was not very different from yours: I had a 3.99 undergrad gpa and was in a hurry to take the LSAT with only about a month of prep - BAD DECISION! Let's just say I seriously underperformed and had to retake. If you really want to take the exam in Feb, just make sure you are supremely prepared or you might just end up raising questions about the strength of your undergrad curriculum (which you are already worried about)

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clintonius
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby clintonius » Sat May 22, 2010 10:59 am

wonderer wrote:The general consensus seems to be 170+. Oh boy. Thanks, all. I'd better start prepping hard...

Yes, you'd better. You sound like a hard worker, so I doubt you really need to be pressed on the issue, but this is among the most important tests you'll take in your life. Put the time into doing well. That's doubly important considering the one class you struggled in (by your own estimation -- an A- is sure as shit nothing to sneeze at, but everything's relative) was math. Mathematical concepts translate pretty fluidly to the LSAT.

If you keep your GPA up the ranking of your undergrad program matters not at all. I went to a "Western master's-level university," i.e., not even a national university according to USNWR, and it places people all the way up to Harvard and Yale, albeit irregularly. I'm in at NYU and waitlisted at Harvard. They might give you an ever-so-slight bump for being at a top school, but going to a lesser institution will not hurt you in the least.

Oh, also -- your softs aren't going to mean much, but you've possibly got diversity/hardship statement potential.

All that to say, the t14 is much more than a dream for you if you can pull off a passable (and ideally excellent) LSAT. Congratulations.

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby TheBigMediocre » Sat May 22, 2010 11:02 am

Keep in mind that if you have/will receive any A+s, your LSAC GPA could be well above a 4.0 when you graduate.

CanadianWolf
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat May 22, 2010 11:44 am

In answer to your original post, you will need an LSAT score of 165 if you are considered an under-represented minority student (URM) for that law school assuming that your LSDAS GPA is a 3.96 to be a likely admit to Berkeley, Penn, Northwestern, Duke, Cornell & Georgetown. (Michigan wants a 166.)
If you are not categorized as an URM, then you need an LSAT score of 169 for Berkeley, Michigan, Duke, Cornell & Georgetown; or an LSAT of 170 for Penn & Northwestern assuming a LSDAS GPA of 3.96.
My source is "lawschoolpredictor.com".
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Sat May 22, 2010 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby Sauer Grapes » Sat May 22, 2010 12:01 pm

I don't know if it's been said, but don't take the February LSAT. You won't know what you missed and why, and therefore will not be able to study specifically those types of questions in the event you have to retake it.

februaryftw
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby februaryftw » Sat May 22, 2010 12:10 pm

thickfreakness wrote:
wonderer wrote:Hello again,

Thanks again for the responses. They've been helpful.

I have another concern. I looked up the ranking of my university and, well, it's definitely NOT a top public university. I didn't realize it because of the family situation I had to stay at home and it was the really only option at the time. But I did read some information on this school alumni and there have been a few students who have went on to attend top graduate schools, namely schools like Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Berkeley, a couple of students who have been accepted to Yale in the past, and one girl who went to Harvard law school. It has happened but it's not common.

I'm still concerned about the ranking of my university because I don't believe a 4.0 here would be the equivalent of a 4.0 at a top university.

Do you think this will impact my chances? I know there's plenty of competition from other universities and I'm wondering what I can do to make myself stand out even more like other students in the past must have done...

Thanks.


Your reasoning is sound, but your GPA will be evaluated fairly consistently with other candidates' GPAs during the cycle. Admissions committees might give a slight bump for a very difficult major (read as: engineering or a grueling computer science program), but outside of that it really doesn't matter, especially when you have such an elite GPA to begin with. I went through two cycles with a GPA similar to your current one from a state school and I don't think I was penalized at all for my undergraduate institution's lack of prestige.


This is mostly true, but it does seem to have an effect at the very top schools--Yale in particular, and Stanford to a lesser extent. Harvard seems to be the most inclusive of the top3 schools.

To feel comfortable hitting the t14 with a 3.95+ gpa, I think you need a 168.

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thickfreakness
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Re: T-14, I'm a dreamer but I ain't the only one...

Postby thickfreakness » Sat May 22, 2010 12:15 pm

februaryftw wrote:
thickfreakness wrote:
wonderer wrote:Hello again,

Thanks again for the responses. They've been helpful.

I have another concern. I looked up the ranking of my university and, well, it's definitely NOT a top public university. I didn't realize it because of the family situation I had to stay at home and it was the really only option at the time. But I did read some information on this school alumni and there have been a few students who have went on to attend top graduate schools, namely schools like Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Berkeley, a couple of students who have been accepted to Yale in the past, and one girl who went to Harvard law school. It has happened but it's not common.

I'm still concerned about the ranking of my university because I don't believe a 4.0 here would be the equivalent of a 4.0 at a top university.

Do you think this will impact my chances? I know there's plenty of competition from other universities and I'm wondering what I can do to make myself stand out even more like other students in the past must have done...

Thanks.


Your reasoning is sound, but your GPA will be evaluated fairly consistently with other candidates' GPAs during the cycle. Admissions committees might give a slight bump for a very difficult major (read as: engineering or a grueling computer science program), but outside of that it really doesn't matter, especially when you have such an elite GPA to begin with. I went through two cycles with a GPA similar to your current one from a state school and I don't think I was penalized at all for my undergraduate institution's lack of prestige.


This is mostly true, but it does seem to have an effect at the very top schools--Yale in particular, and Stanford to a lesser extent. Harvard seems to be the most inclusive of the top3 schools.

To feel comfortable hitting the t14 with a 3.95+ gpa, I think you need a 168.


Definitely. OP only mentioned Harvard out of the top 3, so I think chances are good there with a qualifying LSAT score. However, someone from my UG swept HYS this cycle and will be at Yale in the fall, so I wouldn't say that a degree from a middle or lower tier state school necessarily or even probably prevents you from gaining admission to HYS. Particularly for Y and S I think your application needs to be cohesive and interesting.




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