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CatsPajamas
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Postby CatsPajamas » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:05 pm

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Last edited by CatsPajamas on Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:10 pm

American University in Washington D.C. should like your profile. Hopefully your actual LSAT will be a bit higher, but I think that a lot of top 50 law schools will be interested if you score a 158 or higher.

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JWicker10
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby JWicker10 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:10 pm

Wow, thats quite the stat line as far as your soft factors go. I'm sure it'll make a very interesting personal statement. However, it is impossible to give you school suggestions without an LSAT score. It's literally 60-90% of your application.

If you want an idea of where you'll stand, go to law school predictor or law school numbers. I'm sure your softs will make you more attractive to law schools then the predictor might indicate however.

colemf
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby colemf » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:13 pm

If you can get your lsat up 8-10 points you can anywhere you like with the URM bump Native Americans recieve.

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JWicker10
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby JWicker10 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:19 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:American University in Washington D.C. should like your profile. Hopefully your actual LSAT will be a bit higher, but I think that a lot of top 50 law schools will be interested if you score a 158 or higher.


This is a pretty absurd suggestion given the original post. Did you literally pull this out of your hat? I would hope after studying for 4 months she could raise her score more than 3 whopping points.

Sure, if you get a 158, American makes some sense, I guess, maybe, but not really. Considering it is 3,000+ miles away from nor cal and ranks like 20 spots below Davis.

Your LSAT score will be a large factor in deciding where to go. But with your softs, high 160s plus and you're golden.

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kalvano
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby kalvano » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:30 pm

If you can get mid-160's, you can pretty much write your own ticket. You might be locked out of the T3 or T6, but even then you might have an outside shot.

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mbw
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby mbw » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:57 pm

Hey CP,

I have remarkably similar softs, from the older NA/IA student to the parent of special needs kids (I have two w/ autism) and a bunch in between. ;)

However, you're probably coming from a better place than I did academically - [deleted] However, I am not convinced that you would need that high to have at least a similar cycle as mine last year.

First question is, do you want to stay in CA? If so, then with anything above a 160, apply to Berkeley and UCLA (they love high GPAs.) Above a 165, apply to Stanford [deleted] If you want to apply to Hastings and Davis as safeties, feel free -- but you will get into much higher ranked schools.

If you are willing to go outside of CA, then blanket any school in the top 20 where you would want to live. Don't be stupid like me and apply to places you don't want to go because if you get in, you'll feel pretty dumb having to explain why you won't go over School X, ranked lower, but with a better quality of life.

URM admissions are very hard to predict, and older URM (particularly female) admissions are even more unpredictable. But other than a few places you really would like to live, as long as you score above 160, I think you're into a T14 [deleted].

Feel free to PM me for any other info or advice you think I can provide. Good luck! Study hard and make sure you take the LSAT at a good, comfortable place (I took mine in Monterey, and it was wonderful.)

ETA: Deleted personal information in the above and subsequent posts.
Last edited by mbw on Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:04 pm

Practice tests are as valuable as a teacher recommendation for a home schooled student.
After rereading your original post, I would just like to reaffirm my earlier post. Please don't be swayed by the hostility of some posters, but there is more in your original post than some may be considering.
You really need an actual LSAT score as many students do much better self testing than on the real exam. Also American University has full scholarships available that may be of interest to you.
There is a lot to consider in your case. Most likely, you will be about 40 years old when you finish law school & might not be interested in "big law" employment. Depending upon your interests, you may also want to consider the Univ. of New Mexico School of Law which is highly regarded for Native American Tribal Law & offers quite generous scholarships & financial aid.

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mbw
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby mbw » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:51 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Practice tests are as valuable as a teacher recommendation for a home schooled student.
After rereading your original post, I would just like to reaffirm my earlier post. Please don't be swayed by the hostility of some posters, but there is more in your original post than some may be considering.
You really need an actual LSAT score as many students do much better self testing than on the real exam. Also American University has full scholarships available that may be of interest to you.


I'm not knocking American [deleted] however, with the OP's GPA, as long as she improves even a few points above her base score, I suspect she'll be accepted to higher ranked schools, with funding. Plus, if the OP gets into American, it's most likely she'll get into Hastings, Davis, and/or Irvine and thus wouldn't have to move away from CA.

OP, thinking a little more on the subject, I would only consider leaving California if you didn't get into UCB, UCLA and Stanford, but got into another national school (T14). But I wouldn't turn down one of the mid-ranked UCs for a similarly ranked school outside of CA (unless you're really looking for a change.)
Last edited by mbw on Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:00 pm

Without an actual LSAT score this is all premature speculation, especially when discussing Stanford & top 14 schools. Although typically law schools don't care about one's undergraduate major, this could be an exception that will help at certain law schools & receive additional scrutiny at others.

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mbw
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby mbw » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:04 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Without an actual LSAT score this is all premature speculation, especially when discussing Stanford & top 14 schools. Although typically law schools don't care about one's undergraduate major, this could be an exception that will help at certain law schools & receive additional scrutiny at others.


Do you have actual experience with NA/IA admissions?

Mr. Pablo
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby Mr. Pablo » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:06 pm

OP, study for that LSAT! As everyone else said, its impossible to know your chances without it. As a motivator, on my first diagnostic test I got a 156, and six months later got a 170 on the real thing. Go for it.

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JWicker10
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby JWicker10 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:24 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Practice tests are as valuable as a teacher recommendation for a home schooled student.
After rereading your original post, I would just like to reaffirm my earlier post. Please don't be swayed by the hostility of some posters, but there is more in your original post than some may be considering.
You really need an actual LSAT score as many students do much better self testing than on the real exam. Also American University has full scholarships available that may be of interest to you.
There is a lot to consider in your case. Most likely, you will be about 40 years old when you finish law school & might not be interested in "big law" employment. Depending upon your interests, you may also want to consider the Univ. of New Mexico School of Law which is highly regarded for Native American Tribal Law & offers quite generous scholarships & financial aid.



Ha. Hostility? I'm just trying to help maintain the integrity of advice/information being posted on this site. Clearly other posters agree with me, not you. Don't choke on sour grapes.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:53 pm

Again, until you have an actual LSAT score, everything is speculation. Many students have taken well known bar review courses after which they scored lower on their actual LSAT than on their initial diagnostic test.
The reality is that you may even be over 40 when finished with law school & you may not want to pursue biglaw as a career.
Also scholarship funding may be very important to you. There are roughly 200 law schools in the US so don't let anyone's obsession with the top 14 or top 6 schools blind you to the realities of the study and practice of law.
And yes you should worry about the integrity of the advice and information that is offered to you, especially without an actual LSAT score.

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kalvano
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby kalvano » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:02 pm

I can't believe the level of fail in some of the advice given here.

OP, assuming you bump your LSAT into the 160's or better, you're going to have a lot of doors open for you with URM status and that GPA. While it's not always a given that should go to the highest-ranked school period, keep in mind a large part of law school is the prestige of the school. I think you will have far better options than American or Davis, but the key factor right now is the LSAT. Work that, then worry about schools.

Danteshek
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby Danteshek » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:06 pm

You may want to check out the Arizona schools for Native American stuff

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:13 pm

Believe it or not, even URMs need an actual LSAT score & URMs actually get rejected. The advice offered on this thread is pure speculation mixed in with the magic of URM status. Don't swallow that BS. Take the LSAT & then consider your options. Some of the other posters already have you considering Stanford & other top 14 law schools. That is fantasy. The reality is that you haven't even taken the LSAT yet. Maybe these other posters can get the top law schools to waive that silly little obstacle, but don't bet on it, and don't think that a 160 will automatically get you admitted to a top 14 law school just due to your URM status. and don't think that a practice LSAT that you administered to yourself is a reliable indication of how you will do on an actual exam under actual timed conditions & surroundings.
You have to be realistic about your age, your parental duties toward your autistic child with cerebral palsey, & your financial requirements. You also need an intended career path because you will be in your forties when graduating law school & should have a better idea of what your practice will involve other than biglaw at a fantasy $160,000 a year. It is not likely to happen.

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KMaine
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby KMaine » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:31 pm

MBW gives some great advice here re: California schools and T14. Given OP's situation (as far as we know it), I would only leave California for the T-14. Yeah, she does not have an LSAT score, but she is obviously a very bright woman (GPA) who is very determined and has 4 months to study the LSAT full time. I don't think that it is unreasonable to believe she will crack the 160 barrier. If she does so and blankets the T-14 with her hard stats and writes a great essay based on her life experience, this and her NA status could open up some great doors for her. She may qualify for some merit $ or perhaps some need-based aid (though perhaps she doesn't need that).

Moving to DC to graduate from American seems kind of silly.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:33 pm

She hasn't even applied to American, much less been accepted & hasn't even taken the LSAT & you have her rejecting American! Are you serious? How do you know her level of intelligence? From a GPA in Native American Studies? Reality is important. And in the real world of law schools the LSAT & tuition are important. Are you even a law student? The advice offered on this thread is based in fantasy & dreamworld. I sincerely hope that the OP does well on the LSAT & is admitted to every law school in which she has a true interest. But the LSAT & tuition are requirements that folks in the real world have to consider--especially 40 year old mothers without a definite career path. A legitimate question is why she doesn't have a higher GPA in such an easy major, especially with her background. Hardship ? Okay, but the goal is to overcome hardship & obstacles, not to use it as an excuse & an easy entry into Stanford.
I know this website is mostly law school hopefuls & first year law students but some of the garbage BS offered as advice here is unrealistic even if offered by 21 year olds who haven't worked a day in a law firm or ever taken a bar exam. Even you all should know that the LSAT is important, as is tuition.

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mbw
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby mbw » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:57 pm

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Last edited by mbw on Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:03 pm

Those are strong arguments. I'm sure now that Stanford & the other top 14 have an available spot. Good luck! Enjoy the real world when you get there!

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KMaine
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby KMaine » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:08 pm

Yeah, CanadianWolf - I am a law student, and not at American. I am not 21 years old, I do have a family and actually know a great deal about this "real world" of which you speak. I also went to a UG at a time when a 3.73 was a respectable GPA, but maybe being (I assume) younger (and clearly knowing a great deal about the difficulty of Native American studies relative to other majors), you know more about grade inflation than I do. Not really sure what taking the bar or working at a law firm has to do with me giving advice to OP but, whatever.

Having lived a bit myself, I know that there are much tougher things in life than pulling up your LSAT score a few points. But maybe this is a reflection of the fantasy world I live in. I know if that happens, with OP's URM status, she will have some great doors open up for her. I know this because I have been through the process and know how it works.

If she does not pull up her LSAT, maybe she should look into other options. Maybe we should throw out a list of all the schools on the other coast that may offer reduced tuition and will open up few opportunities for the OP after graduation. In all seriousness, she should look at all of the options. I made lists of the different schools I would apply to if I got a 160, 164, 168, 170, 172 or 174 on my LSAT. Unfortunately, most of my experience is with higher ranked schools, so that is what I chose to write about.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:11 pm

Good for you. Your posts just don't address the key points like an actual LSAT score, a career plan for a 40 plus year old self supporting mother of an autistic child with cerebral palsey & finances for law school & living expenses. Your emotional responses are as silly as your advice. Reality is important, especially for one with at least one dependent. I know that you mean well, but your advice is not sound for this situation.
You did make an interesting point in writing that your experience is with higher ranked schools. Which is common on this board, but there are 200 law schools & a variety of situations that do not make a top 14 the best option--if even an option at all. The one point that you still fail to grasp is that the OP hasn't even taken an actual LSAT exam. So raising it a few points is not really relevant.
Recently I have been reading of others experience with certain LSAT review courses & was surprised at the number of students who actually received a lower score on their LSAT after completing the review course. This is very important as there is no assurance that even with hard work that one will improve upon a self administered LSAT exam score.
I also think that age is a relevant factor in this case. Age discrimination is alive & well in this country, even in the legal profession. A 40 plus year old law school graduate without a solid career background to aid the transition into a law practice should consider law schools with strong clinical programs or strong in her area of interest as the odds are higgh of becoming a sole practitioner or working in a small firm. Certainly more likely than biglaw at fantasy salaries, etc.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KMaine
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby KMaine » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:24 pm

OK, CanadianWolf - I see some good points in some of your earlier posts, but don't really see that I am being more emotional than you. I am not, for instance, impugning OP's major.

I think the NM idea is a good one, as is minimizing debt (although OP may have more $ than we know). People with children can get more for COL than those without, so that may help a bit.

I also understand she needs a real LSAT, but a 155 cold with lots of practice time ahead bodes well.

In the end, she may want to take a lower ranked school with $, if the opportunity presents itself, and she may not be able/willing to get a BigLaw job.

She should also look into loan repayment for any school she applies to if she does want to work in the public interest.

I also think western schools may be the way to go, unless a greater opportunity presents itself elsewhere.
Last edited by KMaine on Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.73/155 URM and Non Trad needs school suggestions

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:26 pm

I am a lot older & a lot more experienced than most posters here so I probably have a different perspective. I didn't mean to impugn the major area of study; I did, however, write that it will help in certain situations & will likely receive extra scrutiny in certain situations. At the Univ. of New Mexico School of Law it will help. Without an actual LSAT score everything else is secondary at best.




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