3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

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acerockolla
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3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby acerockolla » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:55 am

I will be applying from a top 20 undergrad school with one year of work experience in healthcare. My majors are Anthropology, Japanese, and Premed. Most of my lower grades are in sciences such as Biochemistry, do I have any shot at top 14 schools? I'm wondering which schools I should apply to.

Ideally, I'd like to attend Penn, Michigan, Virginia, Northwestern, Cornell, Georgetown, UCLA, USC, George Washington, Boston, Emory, Notre Dame, or Santa Clara.

Also, I'd like to apply early decision. Would it be wise to apply early to Northwestern or Georgetown? Or are there any good schools that give a big advantage to ED that anyone would advise?

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OneKnight
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby OneKnight » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:06 am

I hate to be the one to say it, but you have far too many reaches on that list with your GPA (even if you can show an upward trend and the low grades are in biochem, the LSAC cumulative GPA is what counts). The only school you're guaranteed on that list is Santa Clara, which I assume you're interested in because you want IP law. You could try UVa ED because they do give a decent boost to ED applicants and, even though it is likely you would be rejected, you could then ED to a school at which you have a better chance, like UCLA (GW's ED program is unlikely because it is full tuition, etc.)

Bottom line: If you really want the schools on this list, you're going to need to retake the LSAT. You'd have a much better shot at those t14s with a 172+

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romothesavior
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:10 am

Your GPA is going to hurt you with the T14, but I think you'll be able to get in to just about all of the lower T-20s. I know everyone says its just about the numbers, but I think your wide range or majors make you a potentiall interesting candidate. Your low GPA is a result of taking challenging courses rather than being a slacker, so I think you'll at least have a leg up on the "I flunked my junior college classes and partied too much, but I have an upward trend!" type of splitters. If you put together a solid application and APPLY EARLY, you might be able to get a few T14s to bite.

Check out LSP and LSN if you haven't already. They serve as a way to gauge your chances.
http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/?page_id=11
http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/

I think you'll definitely be going to a T14 at sticker or a T25 with a good scholarship. Good luck to you with your cycle!

edit: I meant to say you'll get into the lower T20s, not lower T14s.
Last edited by romothesavior on Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

acerockolla
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby acerockolla » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:14 am

OneKnight wrote:I hate to be the one to say it, but you have far too many reaches on that list with your GPA



Oh, believe me, I know. Those are just the schools I have researched and would love to go to if I had the chance. My applied school list will definitely look different from that. Thank you for the help, however. :D

Grad09
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby Grad09 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:26 am

Hey, we are exact number twins! I don't have your science background, but I am a "non-URM" minority with some interesting diversity qualities. We applied to the same schools, more or less. Here is how I did:

IN:
UCLA
Santa Clara (17K, Dean's Fellowship interview for full tuition)
Boston U
Boston College

OUT:
Michigan
Georgetown

WL:
Virginia (ED)

PENDING:
Northwestern
Penn
Cornell
USC

I'm still waiting for some big hitters, but for the most part I think my cycle has been decided.

My huge problem is that I got a 168 on the feb. LSAT so I applied to most of these REALLY late (i.e. on the deadline for most t14s) so that probably screwed my chances. I realistically expect IN at USC with no money, WL at Cornell (but who knows) and a reject from NW and Penn.

Either way, I'm not going to wait another year so UCLA here I come. I'm not complaining =)

Apply early! I think Penn, Michigan and Virginia have EDs. Pick one and run with it. Personally, I would choose (although free GW is sick to pass up) Virginia-NW-Michigan-Penn in the ED list. If they all fall through, then apply regular everywhere else. Again, this is my personal opinion.


Good Luck

acerockolla
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby acerockolla » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:27 am

OneKnight wrote:You could try UVa ED because they do give a decent boost to ED applicants and, even though it is likely you would be rejected, you could then ED to a school at which you have a better chance, like UCLA (GW's ED program is unlikely because it is full tuition, etc.)


What do you think about ED to Northwestern, Georgetown, or Notre Dame?

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OneKnight
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby OneKnight » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:31 am

acerockolla wrote:
OneKnight wrote:I hate to be the one to say it, but you have far too many reaches on that list with your GPA



Oh, believe me, I know. Those are just the schools I have researched and would love to go to if I had the chance. My applied school list will definitely look different from that. Thank you for the help, however. :D




NP. FWIW, I think Romo is correct that you will outperform your numbers - your undergraduate school's prestige, the difficulty of your curriculum, and W/E suggests that you have relatively strong softs.

Definitely check out LSN, particularly those applicants with similar numbers: http://search.lawschoolnumbers.com/users/jd/?a=su&lsat2=168&lsatR=true&lsat1=168&lgpa1=3.40&lgpa2=3.44&urm=Excluded&workingCycle=0910

You can expect to do at least this well (I'm positive you would get $$ at a T30). G*d willing, next cycle will be gentler and you'll do better than I am predicting!

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OneKnight
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby OneKnight » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:37 am

acerockolla wrote:
OneKnight wrote:You could try UVa ED because they do give a decent boost to ED applicants and, even though it is likely you would be rejected, you could then ED to a school at which you have a better chance, like UCLA (GW's ED program is unlikely because it is full tuition, etc.)


What do you think about ED to Northwestern, Georgetown, or Notre Dame?


Definitely don't waste your ED on Notre Dame unless you're positive you want to go there. Georgetown might be your best shot at the T14 in terms of ED, but your W/E would likely look good to NU, so it's really a matter of your preference between GULC (and DC) and NU (and Chicago). Note that GULC's ED has a really early deadline (Oct 31) whereas NU's gives you a bit more breathing room (Nov 15)

acerockolla
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby acerockolla » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:46 am

Grad09 wrote:Hey, we are exact number twins! I don't have your science background, but I am a "non-URM" minority with some interesting diversity qualities. We applied to the same schools, more or less. Here is how I did:


Congratulations on UCLA! I am a California resident, but I'm fearing the GPA focus that UC schools generally have. I will be hoping for any acceptance at a top 25 law school, but my favorites are Northwestern and Georgetown, in that order. I guess I will probably apply to Georgetown early and cross my fingers since I figure Northwestern is an even further longshot.

Btw, would you attend Santa Clara if they offered a full scholarship? I'm not that interested in IP law, but the bay area is where I call home(originally) so I would love to head back and live there.

acerockolla
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby acerockolla » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:05 am

OneKnight wrote:Definitely don't waste your ED on Notre Dame unless you're positive you want to go there. Georgetown might be your best shot at the T14 in terms of ED, but your W/E would likely look good to NU, so it's really a matter of your preference between GULC (and DC) and NU (and Chicago). Note that GULC's ED has a really early deadline (Oct 31) whereas NU's gives you a bit more breathing room (Nov 15)


Sorry for so many questions. But what about ED to Michigan?

Grad09
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby Grad09 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:06 am

acerockolla wrote:
Btw, would you attend Santa Clara if they offered a full scholarship? I'm not that interested in IP law, but the bay area is where I call home(originally) so I would love to head back and live there.


Thats funny, I am living in the bay area right now, close to Palo Alto. That is a reeeeeally tough call.

I visited the campus, spoke with students and faculty, etc.
From what I got: IP, Int'l Law, and PI are the only credible fields to study at SCU. The student I spoke with admitted that starting salary stats are skewed to Patent law. Since I don't have the background, nor the strong PI interest, nor the confidence in an "international law certificate," I would say UCLA over SCU.

In your position, however, I would take the money without blinking. That is, if you qualify for and can take the patent bar before you graduate. You will probably make the top quarter of your class (if numbers are indicators of performance), 160K at graduation, and only a few thousand dollars in debt you borrowed for living expenses.

Take the money and have an amazingly stress-free law school experience.

hth

acerockolla
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby acerockolla » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:15 am

Grad09 wrote:
acerockolla wrote:I visited the campus, spoke with students and faculty, etc.
From what I got: IP, Int'l Law, and PI are the only credible fields to study at SCU. The student I spoke with admitted that starting salary stats are skewed to Patent law. Since I don't have the background, nor the strong PI interest, nor the confidence in an "international law certificate," I would say UCLA over SCU.


Haha, I'm from a town bordering Palo Alto, but went to college far away. I'm more interested in getting into international trade law so I can work back in Japan for a bit. I'm not really worrying too much about law school costs. Scholarships took care of my undergraduate tuition, so I don't mind taking out big loans for law school; just want to attend the best school possible. That is awesome you are going to UCLA, btw.

ughOSU
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby ughOSU » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:12 pm

You do have a lot of reaches, but IMO that's a good thing. My stats weren't much better than yours, and I got in to 3 T14s. However, I will say that a 170 LSAT would serve you well. 170 is median at schools ranked 7-11, and if you ED somewhere in that range you should get in with a 170 and some okay softs. Probably not exactly what you wanted to hear, but those 2 points make a huge difference. Without a retake, you should be able to get into a couple T20s, but I wouldn't take that for granted either.

It depends on if you really want T14 or not, but I wouldn't count on it (I was actually terrified I wasn't going to get into any T14s for most of my cycle).

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im_blue
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby im_blue » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:49 pm

One important rule is that schools almost never take non-URMs with both numbers below median (we're talking about much less than 1% chance). That basically rules out every T14 except Berkeley and Cornell. Berkeley doesn't take GPAs that low, and Cornell doesn't have ED, so it looks like the only reasonable ED options on your list are UCLA and Notre Dame.

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flyingpanda
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby flyingpanda » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:20 am

UVA is no chance with your numbers even with ED.

Your best chance of breaking the t14 (probably only chance) is to apply to GULC PT/ED.

UCLA isn't going to like your lowish GPA and you're probably looking at a waitlist.

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OneKnight
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby OneKnight » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:34 am

acerockolla wrote:
OneKnight wrote:Definitely don't waste your ED on Notre Dame unless you're positive you want to go there. Georgetown might be your best shot at the T14 in terms of ED, but your W/E would likely look good to NU, so it's really a matter of your preference between GULC (and DC) and NU (and Chicago). Note that GULC's ED has a really early deadline (Oct 31) whereas NU's gives you a bit more breathing room (Nov 15)


Sorry for so many questions. But what about ED to Michigan?


I wouldn't recommend it. That would be a hail mary pass and, unlike UVa, Michigan does not let you know within 15 days (you couldn't ED there and then elsewhere if you don't get the nod). Moreover, Michigan's ED program forces you to do the summer start on June 1st, so you'd have to consider.

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D Brooks
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby D Brooks » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:35 am

Retake, get 173+.

/thread.

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lateforthesky16
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby lateforthesky16 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:46 am

I applied this cycle to quite a few schools with a 168/3.46. You're welcome to check out my LSN profile to see my results. You'll be looking at a lot of waitlists, and a lot of acceptances/scholarships from schools ranked 19+. I applied ED to UCLA and was waitlisted. A couple years ago our numbers might've been good enough to crack the top 14, but imo now it's really tough unless you have a strong diversity background. Best shot? probably ED to Georgetown PT. Right now I'm WL at Cornell, Georgetown PT, UCLA, and Texas (just to give you an idea of the schools I applied to). Best of luck!

ughOSU
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby ughOSU » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:05 am

If you're looking for T14, a 3.4X GPA is a tough one to overcome without a 17X LSAT.

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UFMatt
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Re: 3.42 GPA, 168 LSAT

Postby UFMatt » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:05 pm

You'll probably get into everywhere up to WUSTL. Half scholarships in the T20-25 range. My science PhD + work exp didn't help at all with my reaches, so I wouldn't anticipate your background helping much either (I don't mean to be pessimistic or snooty; I'm just trying to be honest with you). That being said, it might give you the edge at one of your target schools if you happen to be up against a numbers twin with more run-of-the-mill experience.




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