Top Law Schools

caffeinecalls wrote:I'm a junior and will be applying in the fall. My GPA is 3.701 and LSAT score is 179. However, there is one semester pulling my GPA down, so even though I regularly got 3.9s every semester, that one semester (first sem. of college) really brought my gpa down. I took a crazy amount of units every semester for my double major/double minor and pulled up my gpa since that semester. The thing is.. I'm deciding if I should apply this fall, or take a year off after my senior grades are in. I checked one of those GPA calculator things, and even with my senior grades, my GPA wouldn't bump up too much and I'm not certain if that extra 0.05 in my gpa is even worth the wait. My soft-factors are pretty strong. I've been involved in three clubs/organizations since my freshman year, and I am currently the president of all three. All three are closely related to my academic interests and what I want to pursue in law school. Other than that, I'm not a URM and I also worked 20 hours a week while balancing a full course load of classes since freshman year.

So these are the schools I would really like to go to, in order:
Harvard, Columbia, Yale, University of Chicago, University of Michigan

What are my chances of getting into HLS and CLS? Would admissions committee take into account that there is one semester that is an anomaly to the rest of my academic studies? I was told that I should have at least a 3.85/3,9ish gpa to even be considered by schools like Harvard, Yale, Stanford. Is this true?? Any help or advice would be appreciated in advance, thanks guys

I think Columbia is a go. HLS is always a toss up regardless of your stats... that's just what i've picked up from reading these forums.

caffeinecalls wrote:I'm a junior and will be applying in the fall. My GPA is 3.701 and LSAT score is 179. However, there is one semester pulling my GPA down, so even though I regularly got 3.9s every semester, that one semester (first sem. of college) really brought my gpa down. I took a crazy amount of units every semester for my double major/double minor and pulled up my gpa since that semester. The thing is.. I'm deciding if I should apply this fall, or take a year off after my senior grades are in. I checked one of those GPA calculator things, and even with my senior grades, my GPA wouldn't bump up too much and I'm not certain if that extra 0.05 in my gpa is even worth the wait. My soft-factors are pretty strong. I've been involved in three clubs/organizations since my freshman year, and I am currently the president of all three. All three are closely related to my academic interests and what I want to pursue in law school. Other than that, I'm not a URM and I also worked 20 hours a week while balancing a full course load of classes since freshman year.

So these are the schools I would really like to go to, in order:
Harvard, Columbia, Yale, University of Chicago, University of Michigan

What are my chances of getting into HLS and CLS? Would admissions committee take into account that there is one semester that is an anomaly to the rest of my academic studies? I was told that I should have at least a 3.85/3,9ish gpa to even be considered by schools like Harvard, Yale, Stanford. Is this true?? Any help or advice would be appreciated in advance, thanks guys

Unfortunately, your bad semester will likely shut you out of the very top schools. They might even laugh out loud when they look at your transcript and see 3.7.

caffeinecalls wrote:I'm a junior and will be applying in the fall. My GPA is 3.701 and LSAT score is 179. However, there is one semester pulling my GPA down, so even though I regularly got 3.9s every semester, that one semester (first sem. of college) really brought my gpa down. I took a crazy amount of units every semester for my double major/double minor and pulled up my gpa since that semester. The thing is.. I'm deciding if I should apply this fall, or take a year off after my senior grades are in. I checked one of those GPA calculator things, and even with my senior grades, my GPA wouldn't bump up too much and I'm not certain if that extra 0.05 in my gpa is even worth the wait. My soft-factors are pretty strong. I've been involved in three clubs/organizations since my freshman year, and I am currently the president of all three. All three are closely related to my academic interests and what I want to pursue in law school. Other than that, I'm not a URM and I also worked 20 hours a week while balancing a full course load of classes since freshman year.

So these are the schools I would really like to go to, in order:
Harvard, Columbia, Yale, University of Chicago, University of Michigan

What are my chances of getting into HLS and CLS? Would admissions committee take into account that there is one semester that is an anomaly to the rest of my academic studies? I was told that I should have at least a 3.85/3,9ish gpa to even be considered by schools like Harvard, Yale, Stanford. Is this true?? Any help or advice would be appreciated in advance, thanks guys

*sigh* You're going to get some sh*t for posting one of these 3.7+/175+ DO I HAS CHANCE questions. BUT!
You have Columbia and below in the bag and you'll likely get Harvard as well. 3.7 is still a great GPA and if you boost it to 3.75 you're pretty much golden.

^Sorry, I've only recently stumbled onto this forum and I guess I'm just mainly really concerned about that one semester.

Lock everywhere but Harvard and Yale with a decent addendum about that 1st semester, a good PS, and decent recommendations. I'd say your chances at Harvard are high, with Yale likely being a no-go. Since you prefer HLS and CLS over Yale anyway, that doesn't really matter.

3.7 is about the lowest GPA that gets into Harvard without URM status, and one needs a rockin' LSAT to swing it. Luckily, you have the score you need. You're in everywhere from Columbia down, probably with substantial scholly offers, and if you put together a good application, you'll probably get into Harvard, too. Yale is out unless you have some ridiculous soft factor or a damn good reason for your substandard first quarter.

I think you're good for Columbia. For Harvard, just presume a rejection.

OP --> My advice, btw, is to apply this coming fall (unless, that is, you have some incredible opportunity you wish to take advantage of during your gap year. e.g., fulbright/rhodes/marshall/etc.)

I think most posters in this thread are underestimating the OP's shot at Harvard.

http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0809/

There's a lot of green around that 3.7/179 point.

Would the soft factors I have right now (president of three clubs/orgs) + unusual volunteer experiences in developing countries help? For my grades for the first term, I wasn;t sure if I should write an addendum, because I wasn't sure how law schools would view it. (No failing grades for that term, by the way. Just a really low gpa, ouch) It wasn't a medical condition, like a life threatening circumstance or anything, but it is still legitimate.

Unfortunately, your GPA matters most at face value. Grade trends, majors, and other mitigating circumstances have a negligible impact expect in the most severe cases (death in the family etc.). This is just how the system works. On the bright side, the system takes a similarly blind affection to high LSAT scores. What you're getting screwed out of in GPA cruelty you're more than making up for in LSAT charity.

In all likelihood you will be rejected from Yale and Stanford based on your GPA. But you're a lock for Columbia (and every law school ranked 4 and below with serious scholarship potential). Harvard is where things get interesting. You certainly don't need a 3.9 for Harvard, but at 3.7 you're sitting right on the fence. It could go either way. If you look at LSN there are not very many data points for Harvard at that specific LSAT GPA combo. It seems promising, but it's not a sure thing.

We're identical numbers twins. In fact, with some alterations to a few minor details I could have written your exact post. So here's hoping that Harvard looks not on our first semester sins but on the glory of our grade trends and LSAT scores. Fortuna is a bitch, but maybe she'll spin the wheel up.

Wait is this an April Fool's joke?
It's still 10:42 in California and I was so confused by the previous poster who wrote "New Haven Community College" and "Not Yale," but then I realized ALL the posts were like this. So I'm guessing this is a TLS April Fools Day Joke...

Anyway, would there be a huge difference between a 3.701, 3.751 and a 3.771? For Harvard? (Ok... h.a.r.v.a.r.d. Sorry, the April Fools day thing wouldn't display the school correctly)

johnstuartmill wrote:3.7 is about the lowest GPA that gets into Not YLS without URM status, and one needs a rockin' LSAT to swing it. Luckily, you have the score you need. You're in everywhere from Columbia down, probably with substantial scholly offers, and if you put together a good application, you'll probably get into Not YLS, too. New Haven Community College is out unless you have some ridiculous soft factor or a damn good reason for your substandard first quarter.

yeah but he has a 3.701

So HLS becomes Not YLS, UPenn becomes Penn State, what else?

motiontodismiss wrote:So HLS becomes Not YLS, UPenn becomes PennState University State, what else?

Dook is Tucker Max U, Ya-le is New Haven Community College, and Michi-gan is Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.

I'm disappointed that this guy isn't getting railed on for saying "but" after 3.7/179.

I think all your top choices will ding you for decreasing the font size. Enjoy GeorgeTTTown.

OP- don't let these folks mock you for your concerns. i was 176-3.78 and was WLd at CLS (didn't want to go there, not a NYC kinda guy, but still, they act like you'll be auto-admit).

from the experience of my cycle, with numbers like yours, your biggest enemy is YP (not saying that's what happened to me @ CLS, but it definitely did happen elsewhere, i'm lookin at YOU Penn). Show genuine interest in the schools you really want to attend, and they will salivate over your lsat. but expect some unexpected waitlists.

ze2151 wrote:OP- don't let these folks mock you for your concerns. i was 176-3.78 and was WLd at CLS (didn't want to go there, not a NYC kinda guy, but still, they act like you'll be auto-admit).

from the experience of my cycle, with numbers like yours, your biggest enemy is YP (not saying that's what happened to me @ CLS, but it definitely did happen elsewhere, i'm lookin at YOU PennState University). Show genuine interest in the schools you really want to attend, and they will salivate over your lsat. but expect some unexpected waitlists.

plus one
I know it makes sense to say OP is a lock at Columbia, and I would say that too if I didn't know better, but tbf, I have a 180/3.79 and it looks like I'm not getting in*. OP is probably fine at CC and Mich, but to state with such confidence that he is a lock is potentially misleading.

*To pre-empt some obvious suggestions: I applied on 9/16. Every other school has acted exactly as my numbers would predict, so I doubt there's some red flag in my application. I know for a fact there's nothing bad in my LORs, I have no criminal or disciplinary record of any kind, etc. I wrote a LOCI when I was held six weeks ago, so I'm not sure if YP is a watertight explanation either. Also, my numbers twin on LSN got a Butler. I think sometimes these things just aren't as simple as we think they are.

Sorry, what's YP?

Never mind, I googled it.

Edit: About LORs, what would be considered "bad" or "red flags"? It just seems a given that people would ask people they KNOW will *recommend* them, right? Isn't that the whole purpose of LORs?

caffeinecalls wrote:Never mind, I googled it.

Edit: About LORs, what would be considered "bad" or "red flags"? It just seems a given that people would ask people they KNOW will *recommend* them, right? Isn't that the whole purpose of LORs?

Well, some people, especially the type of people who would earn bad LORs, don't have very good judgement about that sort of thing. So if a professor for some reason doesn't feel comfortable saying "I don't know if I'm the most qualified person to write you a positive recommendation," he will write a letter testifying that the candidate was always punctual and well-groomed, and that will be the end of that person's application. In theory, a candidate could also be so odious that the professor would happily write an explicitly negative letter, but I've never heard of that happening. Bad LORs are rare, but they do happen.

Would it make much of a difference if my 3.701 includes engineering courses? I took 2 (lower-division) ones because at one point I had wanted to do an engineering minor. I got A's in the courses, despite the fact they were tough weeder classes meant to sift out lower-div students. tbf, i don't think they would mean much, so i hadnt mentioned this earlier, but jw if you guys think it would make a slight diff for my app?

OneKnight wrote:

caffeinecalls wrote:I'm a junior and will be applying in the fall. My GPA is 3.701 and LSAT score is 179. However, there is one semester pulling my GPA down, so even though I regularly got 3.9s every semester, that one semester (first sem. of college) really brought my gpa down. I took a crazy amount of units every semester for my double major/double minor and pulled up my gpa since that semester. The thing is.. I'm deciding if I should apply this fall, or take a year off after my senior grades are in. I checked one of those GPA calculator things, and even with my senior grades, my GPA wouldn't bump up too much and I'm not certain if that extra 0.05 in my gpa is even worth the wait. My soft-factors are pretty strong. I've been involved in three clubs/organizations since my freshman year, and I am currently the president of all three. All three are closely related to my academic interests and what I want to pursue in law school. Other than that, I'm not a URM and I also worked 20 hours a week while balancing a full course load of classes since freshman year.

So these are the schools I would really like to go to, in order:
Harvard, Columbia, Yale, University of Chicago, University of Michigan

What are my chances of getting into HLS and CLS? Would admissions committee take into account that there is one semester that is an anomaly to the rest of my academic studies? I was told that I should have at least a 3.85/3,9ish gpa to even be considered by schools like Harvard, Yale, Stanford. Is this true?? Any help or advice would be appreciated in advance, thanks guys

*sigh* You're going to get some sh*t for posting one of these 3.7+/175+ DO I HAS CHANCE questions.

You god damned right.

Hey original poster, if I end up working for you some day, I won't be able to say this to your face... so let me say it to you now anonymously. Go. Fuck. Yourself.