Jaded.... Forum

[Snuffie]

As of today, I've taken the LSAT three times, have done abysmally twice and canceled once. I can take the test once more without waiting until December 2011. Each time I've struggled with military-related sleeping problems. When I PT, I do so under precise conditions and always score in the 170s. So I'm thinking of trying for June, given that the administration is much later in the day, while accepting that I'll be taking a year off.

While that's all well and good, I'm about to turn 30. Beyond the aforementioned stint in the military, I'll have a master's degree in three months. I'm okay with taking a year off. Hell, I've been in school for seven years. Delaying law school is the best thing that could happen to me spiritually, and I know plenty of guys in their thirties that have done just fine out of law school, even in big law.

But we're talking three LSAT attempts that were epic failures. I've been groomed for a career as an academic (PhD). I have the pedigree -in my graduate field of study- to attend virtually any doctoral program I want. Unfortunately, I want to practice law. FML.

I could use some advice. Almost 30. A year off. 4 LSATs. Open invites to prestigious Ph.D. programs that really don't interest me. I feel like I'm reaching that age where it's time to bite the bullet and put those delusions/dreams to rest. Because no T14, hell, no T50 is going to find me attractive with 4 LSATs, even if the last one is HYS caliber, which, I'm starting to believe simply will not happen.

Like I said, any thoughts would be appreciated. Any at all. Trolls welcome.

[Snuffie]

Hm. No takers? Was it something I said?

[orphanarium]

...

[Rowinguy2009]

Care telling us what your undergrad gpa and current lsats are? Gives people a little more to work with.

[Snuffie]

The number of times you take the LSAT then just becomes a negative soft factor.

I've never seen it put like that before, but it makes ALOT of sense. Thanks, Orphanarium.

Small wonder as to why there weren't any responses. I'm basically asking if I should let my dreams die and take the path that has been set for me. Nobody can answer that for me. It'll ultimately be a question of T50-T3 in law, or T5 PH.D....and again, there's no fixed outcome attached to either. A Creighton JD, unlike an NYU Ph.D., gets to practice law.

Perhaps Kittenmittons bestow some morsel of wisdom.

[TheLuckyOne]

Of course it all boils down to your GPA, so let's assume it's high. In this case almost every school (but HYS) will take you if you score 170+. CCN may be a long shot unless you score closer to 175. And no, they typically don't care it was the forth one.

[amputatedbrain]

Hard to give advice without your (at least approximate) LSAT/GPA, and preferably your other softs (besides masters). You mentioned your last LSAT is HYS calibre? If that's true, I can't imagine you couldn't get into a 1st Tier school unless your GPA is abysmal. Just write a great addendum. If your highest LSAT and GPA are good, I don't see why you shouldn't shoot for a T14 either . . . it's not a given, but as was mentioned, many put preference on the highest score.

Edit: reread your post . . . your hoping to get HYS calibre LSAT on next LSAT, misread it. Still could use your stats

[Snuffie]

Of course it all boils down to your GPA, so let's assume it's high. In this case almost every school (but HYS) will take you if you score 170+. CCN may be a long shot unless you score closer to 175. And no, they typically don't care it was the forth one.

UGPA was 3.52 (LSAC is reporting 3.48 which I don't understand), pretty average for the lower T14 I think, okay for T50. Downward trend, which doesn't help.

Softs: uh, few leadership positions. Phi Beta Kappa, Phi Kappa Phi.

Since I'm reading that the "old LSAT scores really don't matter" I want to do a worst case scenario analysis:

LSAT #1: 150
LSAT #2: canceled
LSAT #3: 150

Certainly no lower than that. #1 and #3 were exactly the same, which scares me a bit, and gives a bad impression, unless they're just a "minor negative soft" as has been stated.

[Snuffie]

Edit: reread your post . . . your hoping to get HYS calibre LSAT on next LSAT, misread it. Still could use your stats

Let me know if what I've written isn't sufficient.

[TheLuckyOne]

Snuffie, not to sound mean or so, but are you sure you can hit 170? If I were you, I would put good thought into why such a dramatic difference between PTs and administrations. If you really want to score high, you MUST figure this out, and not just hope it was the sleeping problem....

In any case, your GPA may be a bit low for CCN, at least I wouldn't get too hopeful. To have a shot at these schools, you will need 175+.

170 would give you a reasonable shot at every other school, taking into account your military experience.

[hotdoglaw]

I think you should bite the bullet and not go to law school. Get a new dream... Plus you're almost 30...

[TheLuckyOne]

I think you should bite the bullet and not go to law school. Get a new dream... Plus you're almost 30...

Disagree. I think it's worth one more shot. Besides what he's got to lose. Go for it, OP. Just have this all figured out before walking into the testing room. It's got to be flawless this time. You may want to PM Yoni, btw, he's taken the test 4 times, 3 times 166, the forth 179 (? I think).

BTW, have you tried to take the test when some prep companies administer them for a fee?

[Snuffie]

Snuffie, not to sound mean or so, but are you sure you can hit 170? If I were you, I would put good thought into why such a dramatic difference between PTs and administrations. If you really want to score high, you MUST figure this out, and not just hope it was the sleeping problem....

No argument, TLO. A holistic assessment is imminent.

In any case, your GPA may be a bit low for CCN, at least I wouldn't get too hopeful. To have a shot at these schools, you will need 175+.

170 would give you a reasonable shot at every other school, taking into account your military experience.

I'm not up on all of the slang. If "CCN" stands for "Chicago, Columbia and NYC" then no problem because I'm not looking at any of these schools. Anyway, NYC and Columbia average LSATs. So they'd be out.

T14-wise it's going to be NU, UV, UM, Emory. Then T25 we'd be talking VB, WUSTL, BU and BC.

In the end, though, I'll do a T50 or, shit, a T100 if the package is right. The question is whether it's pure delusion at this point.

Again, hey, thanks for the response.

[TheLuckyOne]

Did some search and there you go, some motivation:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6#p1094846

Oh and yes, CCN is indeed Columbia, Chicago and NYU. HYS is Harvard, Yale, Stanford.

For the record, Emory is not t14

[Snuffie]

There you go, some motivation:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6#p1094846

Appreciate that and your other posts.

I really am going to make this my last attempt. And you HTNOTH earlier, when you opined that some assessment was necessary. I don't get test anxiety, and by that I mean that I don't freeze up or panic during tests. The night before important events, however, I do end up laying in bed for 6 hours unable to sleep. My schedule revolves around afternoons currently, so I can get away with it sometimes. Where the LSAT is concerned? Not so much.

Can't thank you enough TLO. Mind if I request your feedback here and there over the next few months? Appreciate the candor. TYVM.

[TheLuckyOne]

And you HTNOTH earlier.

TYVM

LOL I'm bad with online slang, I know only stuff frequented on TLS. Everyhting else I look up here: http://www.urbandictionary.com

Can't thank you enough TLO. Mind if I request your feedback here and there over the next few months?

Yep, though, I don't think I can be that much of help.

[Snuffie]

And you HTNOTH earlier.

TYVM

LOL I'm bad with online slang, I know only stuff frequented on TLS. Everyhting else I look up here: http://www.urbandictionary.com

Where do you think I got it from as I was typing?

Can't thank you enough TLO. Mind if I request your feedback here and there over the next few months?

Yep, though, I don't think I can be that much of help.[/quote]

Appreciate that.

FYI: When I mentioned Emory as a T14 I meant Duke. I get the two confused fairly often for personal reasons (plus I'm really, really weird).

[TheLuckyOne]

And you HTNOTH earlier.

TYVM

LOL I'm bad with online slang, I know only stuff frequented on TLS. Everyhting else I look up here: http://www.urbandictionary.com

Where do you think I got it from as I was typing?

haha

[opus127]

Just a couple thoughts, since some things you mentioned resonated with me.

I am about your age (slightly older), and have been on a certain path for decades, but have decided it's not what I want to do for the rest of my working lifetime. The way I see it, we're going to be 35/40/45/50/etc years old whatever career choices we make -- why not go for what we want to do? Plenty of people are miserable in PhD programs they thought they'd love -- how much worse would it be if your heart isn't in it at the start? Having said that, do take the time to think through what it is you want to do, and talk to people who are working in areas that interest you. You may not need to go to the very highest ranking schools to get where you want to be.

I don't have any experience with military stress, but my work is nearly all in the afternoons and evenings, and it had been years since I was required to be mentally sharp first thing in the morning. For the months leading up to the LSAT, I did 90% of my prep work at the time of day of the actual test. Every Saturday for a couple months, I sat down and took a full-length, timed practice test starting at the actual start time. This helped take the stress off of sleeping the night before and gave me confidence for test day -- I'd been through the routine many times already. (No, it wasn't my best test ever, but I didn't get rattled.)

Good luck!

[TheLuckyOne]

I don't have any experience with military stress, but my work is nearly all in the afternoons and evenings, and it had been years since I was required to be mentally sharp first thing in the morning. For the months leading up to the LSAT, I did 90% of my prep work at the time of day of the actual test. Every Saturday for a couple months, I sat down and took a full-length, timed practice test starting at the actual start time. This helped take the stress off of sleeping the night before and gave me confidence for test day -- I'd been through the routine many times already. (No, it wasn't my best test ever, but I didn't get rattled.)

Good luck!

I'm so terrified to take a morning test. I start work late afternoons till late night. I don't go to sleep earlier than 3AM. My routine will have been like this for a year when I take the test. I just don't see how I can make myself to go to sleep earlier than 2AM, and then being able to wake up at 7, be sharp and take the test at 9AM

I, for example, plan on having no schedule for a few months leading to the test, so don't get used to be functioning at certain times (sort of wake up and go to sleep at different times, undersleep and oversleep at times) and taking a week off before the test so I can go to sleep early and wake up in the morning. I hope this will work

[Snuffie]

Just a couple thoughts, since some things you mentioned resonated with me.

I am about your age (slightly older), and have been on a certain path for decades, but have decided it's not what I want to do for the rest of my working lifetime. The way I see it, we're going to be 35/40/45/50/etc years old whatever career choices I make -- why not go for what we want to do? Plenty of people are miserable in PhD programs they thought they'd love -- how much worse would it be if your heart isn't in it at the start? Having said that, do take the time to think through what it is you want to do, and talk to people who are working in areas that interest you. You may not need to go to the very highest ranking schools to get where you want to be.

Amen. I don't need T14 to get where I want to go. My goal is non-profit, perhaps immigration. I could get a T4, even a Cooley education, and that without too much trouble.

If I go Ph.D then I'd study at HYSCCN, but I have no real desire to teach, meaning I'd be, er, one of those non-academic Ph.Ds....that still makes me chuckle a bit....

I don't have any experience with military stress, but my work is nearly all in the afternoons and evenings, and it had been years since I was required to be mentally sharp first thing in the morning. For the months leading up to the LSAT, I did 90% of my prep work at the time of day of the actual test. Every Saturday for a couple months, I sat down and took a full-length, timed practice test starting at the actual start time. This helped take the stress off of sleeping the night before and gave me confidence for test day -- I'd been through the routine many times already. (No, it wasn't my best test ever, but I didn't get rattled.)
Good luck!

There's something to be said for a routine. I definitely tried the sleeping schedule. And though I was absolutely worn out, my mind just would not shut down. To hear my mom talk I'm just hardwired this way, and it has nothing to do with the military. She recounts memories where, the night before a scholastic achievement test, in, say, 3rd grade, I'd be physically ill. And I would be physically ill every year. I think she's mistaken, but I am a nervous Nelly.

Studying in the AM is a brilliant suggestion. I always did my PTs in the afternoon. Rigid conditions, certainly, but time of day effects were certainly not considered.

[Snuffie]

TLO, I had you pegged for a 2L or something. Surprised you've never taken the test.

I have no experience in setting a sleep schedule, though I'm sure it would benefit you. Bare in mind that the June LSAT administration occurs at 12 or 12:30. I didn't learn this until a week or so after the Dec '09 administration.

Your idea about taking a week off before the LSAT is an interesting one. If you have a great deal of discipline, it may work to your favor. I associate a week off with sleeping in, but that's just me.

What does your preparation regiment look like? How're you doing on the prep tests?

I may have some wisdom to impart where studying is concerned, even though I don't have the results to back up my suggestions.

[TheLuckyOne]

TLO, I had you pegged for a 2L or something. Surprised you've never taken the test.

I have no experience in setting a sleep schedule, though I'm sure it would benefit you. Bare in mind that the June LSAT administration occurs at 12 or 12:30. I didn't learn this until a week or so after the Dec '09 administration.

Your idea about taking a week off before the LSAT is an interesting one. If you have a great deal of discipline, it may work to your favor. I associate a week off with sleeping in, but that's just me.

What does your preparation regiment look like? How're you doing on the prep tests?

I may have some wisdom to impart where studying is concerned, even though I don't have the results to back up my suggestions.

Haha, well, I have taken the test, though, I managed to epicly fail my best section, LG, and, hence, canceled. (I knew I shouldn't have taken it ) I live in Europe, the administration will be sooo early that I don't even want to think about it...

As for the preparation, I've made sooo many mistakes regarding schedule, PTs, reviews etc that I probably have it nailed by now. I only hope that modern era tests will not hurt me this time and taking into account I have a few months to dissect those and really hope everything will turn out just fine.

Hey, I've got to be positive to stay sane

[DanInALionsDen]

Geeze. You seem like such a nice person, so I'm rooting for you. The LSAT is very learnable, but I think it's all about confidence, diligence, and not stressing yourself out. It may not come as naturally to you as it does others, but that doesn't mean it will be impossible for you to do better.

I think maybe a course could help you if you haven't taken one, just to give you some basic test-time management skills, attack methods, and to give you an enforced study and testing regimen, if you're having trouble keeping yourself to one. Also, the LG bible was very useful for me. I went from a -6 LG to a -2 just from reading that thing. Not a huge difference, but it certainly helped.

[DanInALionsDen]

Check out the top post on this thread:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... start=2000