Harvard and other schools

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dwoof
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:15 pm

Harvard and other schools

Postby dwoof » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:25 pm

Hello all. I didn't apply early unfortunately, and I'm afraid this may have hurt my chances. All applications were in around mid-January. I'll also paste my PS that was submitted to Harvard Law. Please let me know what you think my chances are for each school if you have the time. My dad attended Harvard Law School some 3o years ago.

Schools applied to:
Harvard
Yale
Columbia
NYU
UC Berkeley
University of Chicago
Northwestern
Georgetown
Boston University

LSAT (only took once, Dec. 2009) - 170
LSDAS GPA - 3.77
Undergraduate School - The Boston Conservatory of Music
Degree - B.M. (vocal performance - classical music)
Ethnicity - Half Japanese, half Caucasian

I remember lying in my bed early one morning shortly before I left for college to study
classical voice. My dad came in and sat next to me as he sometimes did, but the conversation that
ensued was different than usual. We often spoke about politics or current events, but I was about
to go to college 3,000 miles away, and that day we talked about me. Though for the most part I
can only recall the essence of what was spoken more than four years ago, I can clearly remember
one thing he said to me, “Daniel, you have always been the most mysterious of all my kids.”

I was strangely independent as a child, and I explored the world in my own way,
sometimes to my detriment. Whereas Benjamin Franklin experimented with electricity by
attaching a key to a kite, I did so by sticking a key in a light socket. I observed firsthand that
metal does indeed conduct electricity. Though my parents did not always understand me, they
always encouraged my insatiable curiosity, and I discovered many things in unorthodox ways.

Music and politics have always been strong passions of mine, and I have long struggled
with the choice of which to pursue as a career. At age nine I heard Rachmaninoff’s Piano
Concerto #3 performed in the movie Shine, and at that moment I knew I had to learn the piano. I
studied for eleven years, and later picked up the cello and then voice as well. Though I had
trained vocally for only a short time, I was accepted into The Boston Conservatory’s classical
voice program. I chose to go because I wanted a first class education in music, and because I
desired to sing.

While most of my peers at the conservatory were politically apathetic, I stayed politically
active. I raised funds and canvassed for congressional candidates in the midterm elections, and
later volunteered for Obama’s presidential campaign. Also, I wanted more responsibilities, so I
applied to be a Resident Assistant. I was hired, and was responsible for 24 residents my
sophomore year and 44 my junior year. I played an active, positive role in creating a healthy
environment for the residents. Early in my first year as an RA I met with the Director of Housing
to explain I thought our policy requiring us to document those students who returned to campus
intoxicated would in many cases be unwise. Since no resident owned or drove a car, I was not
comfortable implementing a policy that could discourage residents from seeking help and safety
in the dorms when needed. She understood my concerns and allowed me to use my discretion in
implementing the policy.

After completing my undergraduate studies, I went to Italy to study the language and
experience the culture. I lived in Florence, but when I was not there studying Italian I did such
things as go to the opera or ballet at Teatro alla Scala in Milan, visit museums in Naples to enjoy
the fine art, and explore the history and vibrant night life of Rome. Ironically, it was while
surrounded by the great art of Italy I realized I wanted to change course from a career in music to
one in law. My desire to advocate for causes I believe in had grown too strong to ignore.

One of those causes is equal rights. The recent string of losses in the gay rights
movement was a major reason for my change of heart. In 2008 I watched in devastation as voters
in California, my home state, took away my right as a gay man to marry the one I love. A year
later, while I was still in Italy, voters in Maine overturned legislation that would have given same-sex
couples the right to marry. I have been taught, and inherently understand, sexuality is in no
way a measure of character. I firmly believe same-sex couples should have the same rights as
others. While music will always be an important part of my life, I am ready to focus my work on
the fight for those rights.

I aspire to be an effective equal rights advocate and perhaps one day seek public office. I
want to attend Harvard because I want, above all else, a first class legal education. In addition, I
would like to take advantage of Harvard’s Law and Social Change program of study, its support
of summer public service employment, and the opportunity to stay close to my partner, who lives
in Boston. I am disciplined, well rounded, self-aware, passionate when appropriate, and
sympathetic towards those who, like me, are treated differently under the law. Based on these
attributes, my strong political interests and my experience in the performing arts, I believe I can
contribute significantly to the level of discourse at Harvard.

User avatar
$1.99
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:49 am

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby $1.99 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:30 pm

to be honest, you are probably out at everywhere except maybe georgetown and BU. first of all, your scores are too low for those schools and secondly, you blew your outside shot at getting in by applying this late (probably wouldn't get in anyways). lastly, your soft major in music isnt going to help you explina your 3.7 gpa (i know how hard a music major is but admissions committees dont care). your dad going to harvard law won't be enough to give you the boost to overcome your below 25th percentile numbers. if you really want to get into columbia and above, you need to retake the LSAT and rock it (above 175) and even then, it will be 50/50 with your gpa.

Derrex
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:04 am

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby Derrex » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:38 pm

dwoof wrote:Hello all. I didn't apply early unfortunately, and I'm afraid this may have hurt my chances. All applications were in around mid-January. I'll also paste my PS that was submitted to Harvard Law. Please let me know what you think my chances are for each school if you have the time. My dad attended Harvard Law School some 3o years ago.

Schools applied to:
Harvard (Out LSAT/GPA at 25th)
Yale (Out)
Columbia (WL/Out This would be a good ED school)
NYU (WL/IN)
UC Berkeley (Don't know, they like offcenter people, possibility)
University of Chicago (WL/Out)
Northwestern (Out need WE)
Georgetown (In)
Boston University (In)

LSAT (only took once, Dec. 2009) - 170
LSDAS GPA - 3.77
Undergraduate School - The Boston Conservatory of Music
Degree - B.M. (vocal performance - classical music)
Ethnicity - Half Japanese, half Caucasian

I remember lying in my bed early one morning shortly before I left for college to study
classical voice. My dad came in and sat next to me as he sometimes did, but the conversation that
ensued was different than usual. We often spoke about politics or current events, but I was about
to go to college 3,000 miles away, and that day we talked about me. Though for the most part I
can only recall the essence of what was spoken more than four years ago, I can clearly remember
one thing he said to me, “Daniel, you have always been the most mysterious of all my kids.”

I was strangely independent as a child, and I explored the world in my own way,
sometimes to my detriment. Whereas Benjamin Franklin experimented with electricity by
attaching a key to a kite, I did so by sticking a key in a light socket. I observed firsthand that
metal does indeed conduct electricity. Though my parents did not always understand me, they
always encouraged my insatiable curiosity, and I discovered many things in unorthodox ways.

Music and politics have always been strong passions of mine, and I have long struggled
with the choice of which to pursue as a career. At age nine I heard Rachmaninoff’s Piano
Concerto #3 performed in the movie Shine, and at that moment I knew I had to learn the piano. I
studied for eleven years, and later picked up the cello and then voice as well. Though I had
trained vocally for only a short time, I was accepted into The Boston Conservatory’s classical
voice program. I chose to go because I wanted a first class education in music, and because I
desired to sing.

While most of my peers at the conservatory were politically apathetic, I stayed politically
active. I raised funds and canvassed for congressional candidates in the midterm elections, and
later volunteered for Obama’s presidential campaign. Also, I wanted more responsibilities, so I
applied to be a Resident Assistant. I was hired, and was responsible for 24 residents my
sophomore year and 44 my junior year. I played an active, positive role in creating a healthy
environment for the residents. Early in my first year as an RA I met with the Director of Housing
to explain I thought our policy requiring us to document those students who returned to campus
intoxicated would in many cases be unwise. Since no resident owned or drove a car, I was not
comfortable implementing a policy that could discourage residents from seeking help and safety
in the dorms when needed. She understood my concerns and allowed me to use my discretion in
implementing the policy.

After completing my undergraduate studies, I went to Italy to study the language and
experience the culture. I lived in Florence, but when I was not there studying Italian I did such
things as go to the opera or ballet at Teatro alla Scala in Milan, visit museums in Naples to enjoy
the fine art, and explore the history and vibrant night life of Rome. Ironically, it was while
surrounded by the great art of Italy I realized I wanted to change course from a career in music to
one in law. My desire to advocate for causes I believe in had grown too strong to ignore.

One of those causes is equal rights. The recent string of losses in the gay rights
movement was a major reason for my change of heart. In 2008 I watched in devastation as voters
in California, my home state, took away my right as a gay man to marry the one I love. A year
later, while I was still in Italy, voters in Maine overturned legislation that would have given same-sex
couples the right to marry. I have been taught, and inherently understand, sexuality is in no
way a measure of character. I firmly believe same-sex couples should have the same rights as
others. While music will always be an important part of my life, I am ready to focus my work on
the fight for those rights.

I aspire to be an effective equal rights advocate and perhaps one day seek public office. I
want to attend Harvard because I want, above all else, a first class legal education. In addition, I
would like to take advantage of Harvard’s Law and Social Change program of study, its support
of summer public service employment, and the opportunity to stay close to my partner, who lives
in Boston. I am disciplined, well rounded, self-aware, passionate when appropriate, and
sympathetic towards those who, like me, are treated differently under the law. Based on these
attributes, my strong political interests and my experience in the performing arts, I believe I can
contribute significantly to the level of discourse at Harvard.



I would say you should consider delaying a year and EDing to columbia. Harvard will be hard due to both numbers being around 25th percentile. You'll need a retake in to 178 range and even then, its still a crapshoot at harvard.

There is also a minor typo in your PS I bolded.

ranovr32
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby ranovr32 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:40 pm

$1.99 wrote:to be honest, you are probably out at everywhere except maybe georgetown and BU. first of all, your scores are too low for those schools and secondly, you blew your outside shot at getting in by applying this late (probably wouldn't get in anyways). lastly, your soft major in music isnt going to help you explina your 3.7 gpa (i know how hard a music major is but admissions committees dont care). your dad going to harvard law won't be enough to give you the boost to overcome your below 25th percentile numbers. if you really want to get into columbia and above, you need to retake the LSAT and rock it (above 175) and even then, it will be 50/50 with your gpa.

Dude this guy is a hater extra hard. I am pretty sure you'll be a lock for Cal, especially with your story. Harvard might be a little bit of a stretch to be honest, but I found your ps pretty compelling and I am a harsh critic. I think you'll lock down most of the schools with the exception of HLS CLS and Chicago. People this cycle have gotten into Chicago with numbers lower then yours, but you are fighting an uphill battle by applying this late. My advice to you, if you don't get into at least 2 of the schools you really want to be at, wait till next year and apply in September. With your story and your grades at the Conservatory (this guy doesn't even understand how prestigous this place is), maybe take the lsat and get a 173 174, I think you would get into Harvard.

dwoof
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby dwoof » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:41 pm

I don't think that's a typo, but you may be correct. Is it that you think it should say "explain that I thought?"

User avatar
scribelaw
Posts: 771
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby scribelaw » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:43 pm

It sounds like you're at least one year out from undergrad -- you'll probably get in to Northwestern. Also in at Georgetown and Boston ($$).

With your current numbers, you could wait a cycle and ED to NYU or Chicago and have a decent chance. Or you could retake the LSAT and, if you manage a 172+, you'd probably get all of CCN.

Your GPA is great -- for everywhere but YHS and Berkeley. Yale is out for sure. Harvard you'd need at least a 173 to have any chance.

dwoof
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby dwoof » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:44 pm

ranovr32 wrote:Dude this guy is a hater extra hard. I am pretty sure you'll be a lock for Cal, especially with your story. Harvard might be a little bit of a stretch to be honest, but I found your ps pretty compelling and I am a harsh critic. I think you'll lock down most of the schools with the exception of HLS CLS and Chicago. People this cycle have gotten into Chicago with numbers lower then yours, but you are fighting an uphill battle by applying this late. My advice to you, if you don't get into at least 2 of the schools you really want to be at, wait till next year and apply in September. With your story and your grades at the Conservatory (this guy doesn't even understand how prestigous this place is), maybe take the lsat and get a 173 174, I think you would get into Harvard.


Thank you. I appreciate the support on the PS, I probably spent a good 100 hours on it.

leftofthedial
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:43 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby leftofthedial » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:44 pm

No typo.

ranovr32
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby ranovr32 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:48 pm

Dwoof,
No problemo, I think a lot of people would agree that it is a pretty cool story.

User avatar
$1.99
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:49 am

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby $1.99 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:49 pm

i am not a hater and i know how prestigious music conservatories are as my mother and brother went to julliard and eastmen respectively, i was just saying adcoms look down on it, if you dont believe me go look at the held at harvard thread.

he is not a lock at berkeley, as boalt is never a lock even with stellar grades and his grades are lower than a lot of people who are getting held there too.

to tell him that he has a decent shot at HLS and CLS is completely misleading, look at the numbers yourself, and a great PS is a soft, it doesn't overcome grades and test scores unless he cured cancer, especially at harvard and columbia

i am not being a douche, just stating the facts and encouraging him to retake the LSAT if he really wants a good shot at those schools

User avatar
$1.99
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:49 am

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby $1.99 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:51 pm

ranovr32 wrote:
$1.99 wrote:to be honest, you are probably out at everywhere except maybe georgetown and BU. first of all, your scores are too low for those schools and secondly, you blew your outside shot at getting in by applying this late (probably wouldn't get in anyways). lastly, your soft major in music isnt going to help you explina your 3.7 gpa (i know how hard a music major is but admissions committees dont care). your dad going to harvard law won't be enough to give you the boost to overcome your below 25th percentile numbers. if you really want to get into columbia and above, you need to retake the LSAT and rock it (above 175) and even then, it will be 50/50 with your gpa.

Dude this guy is a hater extra hard. I am pretty sure you'll be a lock for Cal, especially with your story. Harvard might be a little bit of a stretch to be honest, but I found your ps pretty compelling and I am a harsh critic. I think you'll lock down most of the schools with the exception of HLS CLS and Chicago. People this cycle have gotten into Chicago with numbers lower then yours, but you are fighting an uphill battle by applying this late. My advice to you, if you don't get into at least 2 of the schools you really want to be at, wait till next year and apply in September. With your story and your grades at the Conservatory (this guy doesn't even understand how prestigous this place is), maybe take the lsat and get a 173 174, I think you would get into Harvard.


and a 173/174 would not get him into harvard, his gpa is 25th percentile and harvards median is 173. stop giving people sugar coated advice if you really want to help them. he needs to get at least a 75th precentile score (176)

ranovr32
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby ranovr32 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:52 pm

$1.99 wrote:i am not a hater and i know how prestigious music conservatories are as my mother and brother went to julliard and eastmen respectively, i was just saying adcoms look down on it, if you dont believe me go look at the held at harvard thread.

he is not a lock at berkeley, as boalt is never a lock even with stellar grades and his grades are lower than a lot of people who are getting held there too.

to tell him that he has a decent shot at HLS and CLS is completely misleading, look at the numbers yourself, and a great PS is a soft, it doesn't overcome grades and test scores unless he cured cancer, especially at harvard and columbia

i am not being a douche, just stating the facts and encouraging him to retake the LSAT if he really wants a good shot at those schools

I did say he would need to improve his score 3 points to have a better shot at HLS. But Cal is notoriously pro soft factors. He isn't the run of the mill WASP with a 3.7 and a 170, I think people really underestimate how boring it probably is to read about how Billy went to Princeton excelled and then decided he would be a politician so chose to go to HLS.

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$1.99
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Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby $1.99 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:53 pm

yeah i understand your point but tell that to the 180/4.0 music guy that got held

dwoof
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby dwoof » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:54 pm

I think the back and forth is interesting, because it is a little like what I imagine an admissions committee is like. Whereas one person might look at my application and say "hell no," I might get lucky and get the one who says "hmm, unconventional, but why not?" I guess what matters is who prevails when they duke it out :P

ranovr32
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby ranovr32 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:56 pm

dwoof wrote:I think the back and forth is interesting, because it is a little like what I imagine an admissions committee is like. Whereas one person might look at my application and say "hell no," I might get lucky and get the one who says "hmm, unconventional, but why not?" I guess what matters is who prevails when they duke it out :P

Exactly,
and to 1.99's credit there is a guy on hold rite now with those numbers. Maybe he had a terrible statement, bad recs, something. You don't get held with a 180 and 4.0 unless you EFFED up somewhere. For all we know he could of got caught cheating or arrested multiple times.

dwoof
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby dwoof » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:03 pm

That's scary, but gives me some hope. I guess all the talk about how LSAT and GPA aren't everything has some merit, cause if you got a 180/4.0 I woulda thought you must have killed a relative of someone on the admissions committee not to get in...

Something I forgot to mention; the nice thing about the conservatory is it was very intimate, and I believe my two recommendations were very strong. One asked for old papers so he could be specific about my academic abilities, and the other is a frequent lecturer on Baroque music at Harvard.

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toolshed
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Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby toolshed » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:05 pm

Pretty late in the cycle for most. I don't think you can get H or Y without a new LSAT, but if you waited a year you have an decent shot at CCNB. In at Gtown and Boston.

ranovr32
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby ranovr32 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:10 pm

dwoof wrote:That's scary, but gives me some hope. I guess all the talk about how LSAT and GPA aren't everything has some merit, cause if you got a 180/4.0 I woulda thought you must have killed a relative of someone on the admissions committee not to get in...

Something I forgot to mention; the nice thing about the conservatory is it was very intimate, and I believe my two recommendations were very strong. One asked for old papers so he could be specific about my academic abilities, and the other is a frequent lecturer on Baroque music at Harvard.

Alls I am saying is that if you look at LSN there are people well at 25th in either gpa or lsat but at median in the other and they have gotten in. And I dont me a URM. I think you should probably wait a year though Dwoof

dwoof
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby dwoof » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:13 pm

Yeah, if I don't get into one of my top choices I think I'll try again next year.

dwoof
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby dwoof » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:20 pm

Is it dangerous to have posted so much info? I just read on LSN something about not wanting to be "spotted."

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:30 pm

dwoof wrote:Is it dangerous to have posted so much info? I just read on LSN something about not wanting to be "spotted."


eh, only if you say and do stupid things online. ive never been too worried about being "outed"...it's not like i go and insult random ppl or use racial slurs lol...though if i were to reference the TM thread, i guess there are instances where it could hurt you when "outed" haha

thats besides the point, ill now weigh in w/ my two cents:

this cycle, this late w/ your numbers...as others have said, out at HY for sure, and prob no go for CC. rest im skeptical about but i wont make a definitive (tho opinionated) remark

early next cycle, if you retake, you have a shot at HYS. your PS and supposedly amazing recs and music conservatory make you stand out...but having a 3.77 hurts you, esp from the conservatory. as 1.99 said, it looks bad because something that could have been special about you, is now somewhat a liability as you've tacked on a below 25th GPA.

your LSAT should be 174+ imo for you to have a decent chance at HLS. the only reason i say this is because you're technically legacy, which gives you a slight bump, but HLS is still predominantly a numbers game. YS may be diff, but at HLS, softs are just softs (imo).

retake, apply early, hope for the best. if you play to your strengths (w/ your music conservatory ugrad and PS and LORs) and bolster the LSAT score (174+), then your cycle may turn out surprisingly pleasant.

Derrex
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:04 am

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby Derrex » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:32 pm

dwoof wrote:I don't think that's a typo, but you may be correct. Is it that you think it should say "explain that I thought?"



Yeah, just sounds a bit awkward to go explain I thought. Usually, its explain that I thought.

Derrex
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:04 am

Re: Harvard and other schools

Postby Derrex » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:36 pm

dwoof wrote:Is it dangerous to have posted so much info? I just read on LSN something about not wanting to be "spotted."


Like above poster said, its ok as long as you don't make yourself look like a douche. The other thing to not do is about acceptances, like if you got accepted to harvard, someone from penn could see you and decide to WL you, although it probably won't matter too much since you're going to harvard.




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