Need help with a law school related class project

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Pebbles
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Need help with a law school related class project

Postby Pebbles » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:44 am

So I have to find what law schools I plan to apply to for a class. Currently, I'm a Sophomore with a 3.54 gpa (was 3.75 until some problems last semester) and a 161 (cold) lsat.

I already have what I would consider quite good softs. I hope to graduate with at least a 3.65, and plan to take an LSAT Prep course.

My professor said that we must be reasonable and realistic, not picking ones in the T14 just to sound impressive. Since I'm assigned to come up with a list of reach, good match, and safety schools, where do I stand/ would be reasonable for me to expect to stand?

Right now, the top schools I've looked at are (to be considered "reach") Georgetown, and Vanderbilt. Am I being unreasonable? What would be good ones to put in each category? I've tried the calculators out there, but I just don't know how helpful they are since I'm so tempted to just enter my ideal numbers, and at the same time I know I am pretty sure that I can and will raise my gpa and lsat over the next two years.

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Need help with a law school related class project

Postby T14_Scholly » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:49 am

It's basically impossible to say without knowing your LSAT score. However, someone who tests 161 cold can almost certainly raise their score into the 170s. Go to http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com, plug in 3.6 & 170, and see what it says.

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englawyer
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Re: Need help with a law school related class project

Postby englawyer » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:37 am

Pebbles wrote:So I have to find what law schools I plan to apply to for a class. Currently, I'm a Sophomore with a 3.54 gpa (was 3.75 until some problems last semester) and a 161 (cold) lsat.

I already have what I would consider quite good softs. I hope to graduate with at least a 3.65, and plan to take an LSAT Prep course.

My professor said that we must be reasonable and realistic, not picking ones in the T14 just to sound impressive. Since I'm assigned to come up with a list of reach, good match, and safety schools, where do I stand/ would be reasonable for me to expect to stand?

Right now, the top schools I've looked at are (to be considered "reach") Georgetown, and Vanderbilt. Am I being unreasonable? What would be good ones to put in each category? I've tried the calculators out there, but I just don't know how helpful they are since I'm so tempted to just enter my ideal numbers, and at the same time I know I am pretty sure that I can and will raise my gpa and lsat over the next two years.


use law school predictor for 3.6/ 167 or so. that should be reachable numbers for sure, and will give you a couple reaches in the T14, targets in the T20, and some safeties in the T50 which should match your criteria.

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observationalist
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Re: Need help with a law school related class project

Postby observationalist » Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:28 pm

Pebbles wrote:So I have to find what law schools I plan to apply to for a class. Currently, I'm a Sophomore with a 3.54 gpa (was 3.75 until some problems last semester) and a 161 (cold) lsat.

I already have what I would consider quite good softs. I hope to graduate with at least a 3.65, and plan to take an LSAT Prep course.

My professor said that we must be reasonable and realistic, not picking ones in the T14 just to sound impressive. Since I'm assigned to come up with a list of reach, good match, and safety schools, where do I stand/ would be reasonable for me to expect to stand?

Right now, the top schools I've looked at are (to be considered "reach") Georgetown, and Vanderbilt. Am I being unreasonable? What would be good ones to put in each category? I've tried the calculators out there, but I just don't know how helpful they are since I'm so tempted to just enter my ideal numbers, and at the same time I know I am pretty sure that I can and will raise my gpa and lsat over the next two years.


A 3.65 will put you below median at most of the top law schools, but if you can hit an LSAT above median (and particularly above 75th) you'll stand a good shot. Keep an eye out for those medians going up over the next couple of cycles though. Vanderbilt's was at 168 and may hit 169 this year, and no telling what they'll get in a few years when you get around to applying. I agree a 170+ would be ok for this cycle but you might as well aim higher to build in for the expected increase in competitiveness. 172+ might be a better threshold to focus on, especially if you're looking to go higher up into the T10 schools. Unfortunately, just a two-point increase in your LSAT is well worth shelling out a few grand for a very expensive tutor with how acceptances and scholarships work right now, but see what you can get by studying on your own first.

G'luck! FWIW Vandy's a lot of fun.

lawman335
Posts: 104
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Re: Need help with a law school related class project

Postby lawman335 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:49 am

Its impossible for us to suggest without your LSAT score so i request you to mention your LSAT score......

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Need help with a law school related class project

Postby T14_Scholly » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:29 pm

observationalist wrote:
Pebbles wrote:So I have to find what law schools I plan to apply to for a class. Currently, I'm a Sophomore with a 3.54 gpa (was 3.75 until some problems last semester) and a 161 (cold) lsat.

I already have what I would consider quite good softs. I hope to graduate with at least a 3.65, and plan to take an LSAT Prep course.

My professor said that we must be reasonable and realistic, not picking ones in the T14 just to sound impressive. Since I'm assigned to come up with a list of reach, good match, and safety schools, where do I stand/ would be reasonable for me to expect to stand?

Right now, the top schools I've looked at are (to be considered "reach") Georgetown, and Vanderbilt. Am I being unreasonable? What would be good ones to put in each category? I've tried the calculators out there, but I just don't know how helpful they are since I'm so tempted to just enter my ideal numbers, and at the same time I know I am pretty sure that I can and will raise my gpa and lsat over the next two years.


A 3.65 will put you below median at most of the top law schools, but if you can hit an LSAT above median (and particularly above 75th) you'll stand a good shot. Keep an eye out for those medians going up over the next couple of cycles though. Vanderbilt's was at 168 and may hit 169 this year, and no telling what they'll get in a few years when you get around to applying. I agree a 170+ would be ok for this cycle but you might as well aim higher to build in for the expected increase in competitiveness. 172+ might be a better threshold to focus on, especially if you're looking to go higher up into the T10 schools. Unfortunately, just a two-point increase in your LSAT is well worth shelling out a few grand for a very expensive tutor with how acceptances and scholarships work right now, but see what you can get by studying on your own first.

G'luck! FWIW Vandy's a lot of fun.


I'm not so sure competitiveness can be expected to increase, because the evidence currently suggests that we're not seeing many more applicants this cycle, there's just a lot more applications per applicant. So while it's possible that the applicant pool, while not increasing much in size, has seen a loss of lower-end applicants and an increase in highly-qualified applicants (as this would be the only way to explain an increase in applicant competitiveness), it's not the case that there's an influx of highly qualified applicants on top of the normal pool of people who apply each cycle.

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observationalist
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Re: Need help with a law school related class project

Postby observationalist » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:39 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:
observationalist wrote:
Pebbles wrote:So I have to find what law schools I plan to apply to for a class. Currently, I'm a Sophomore with a 3.54 gpa (was 3.75 until some problems last semester) and a 161 (cold) lsat.

I already have what I would consider quite good softs. I hope to graduate with at least a 3.65, and plan to take an LSAT Prep course.

My professor said that we must be reasonable and realistic, not picking ones in the T14 just to sound impressive. Since I'm assigned to come up with a list of reach, good match, and safety schools, where do I stand/ would be reasonable for me to expect to stand?

Right now, the top schools I've looked at are (to be considered "reach") Georgetown, and Vanderbilt. Am I being unreasonable? What would be good ones to put in each category? I've tried the calculators out there, but I just don't know how helpful they are since I'm so tempted to just enter my ideal numbers, and at the same time I know I am pretty sure that I can and will raise my gpa and lsat over the next two years.


A 3.65 will put you below median at most of the top law schools, but if you can hit an LSAT above median (and particularly above 75th) you'll stand a good shot. Keep an eye out for those medians going up over the next couple of cycles though. Vanderbilt's was at 168 and may hit 169 this year, and no telling what they'll get in a few years when you get around to applying. I agree a 170+ would be ok for this cycle but you might as well aim higher to build in for the expected increase in competitiveness. 172+ might be a better threshold to focus on, especially if you're looking to go higher up into the T10 schools. Unfortunately, just a two-point increase in your LSAT is well worth shelling out a few grand for a very expensive tutor with how acceptances and scholarships work right now, but see what you can get by studying on your own first.

G'luck! FWIW Vandy's a lot of fun.


I'm not so sure competitiveness can be expected to increase, because the evidence currently suggests that we're not seeing many more applicants this cycle, there's just a lot more applications per applicant. So while it's possible that the applicant pool, while not increasing much in size, has seen a loss of lower-end applicants and an increase in highly-qualified applicants (as this would be the only way to explain an increase in applicant competitiveness), it's not the case that there's an influx of highly qualified applicants on top of the normal pool of people who apply each cycle.


Well, right, there may not be an overall increase in applicants, but as you pointed out that doesn't matter if more people who choose to apply are doing so with higher LSATs. Competitiveness has increased at many top law schools. LSAT medians will likely continue to climb, as they have been for many years. Just went back through history to check on this... in 1970 the median LSAT for students accepted to HLS was 169.5 in today's terms (695 under the old scale). These days, anyone with a 169 is likely going to need a 3.5 just to stand a good shot at Vanderbilt. And despite my own personal feelings about this fine institution, it's certainly viewed differently than the "Vanderbilt of the North." So for someone with a below-median gpa who isn't applying for at least two more years, I think it's good advice to aim for an LSAT at a school's current 75th (and probably a point or two higher). Besides, every additional point carries with it either the option of a higher law school or additional scholarships. There's no reason to not aim as high as you can on the LSAT unless and until the law schools figure out a more holistic way to evaluate candidates. For that to happen USNews would need to become extinct.

FWIW, I was an autoadmit w/ no $$ for Vanderbilt two cycles ago with a 168 (above 75th) and 3.4 (below 25th). The prior year I would likely have received $$. The following year I wouldn't have gotten in unless I fought off the WL. And this year I would probably be retaking the LSAT just to stand a shot.

Pebbles
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Re: Need help with a law school related class project

Postby Pebbles » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:51 pm

Thanks for all your responses, ya'll definitely helped. Especially that specific law school calculator. Haven't seen one that did the whole "accept," "consider", "deny" thing. That took a lot of the work out of my project!




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