Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

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LiveFree
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Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby LiveFree » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:41 pm

Yoooo,

Accepted to Wake, Iowa and Case ($$). I haven't received a scholarship at Wake or Iowa, but have enough saved that debt will be minimal (with the exception of Case, which will be free).

Assuming I do well (I know, big assumption), which school will offer the best job prospects upon graduation?

I'm from New Hampshire and don't have a clue how well the names carry in their respective regions. All three have salaries from 90 - 100 at the median, but which school would you choose and why?

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gwuorbust
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby gwuorbust » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:59 pm

Wake should give you money, and from TLS I get the feeling that their degree is able to carry outside of NC. Most ppl stay in NC, but I think that is more of a self-selection issue rather than a non-transferability issue.

If you know that you want to practice in one of the three regions I would go there tho.

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chadwick218
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:06 pm

aschleic wrote:Yoooo,

Accepted to Wake, Iowa and Case ($$). I haven't received a scholarship at Wake or Iowa, but have enough saved that debt will be minimal (with the exception of Case, which will be free).

Assuming I do well (I know, big assumption), which school will offer the best job prospects upon graduation?

I'm from New Hampshire and don't have a clue how well the names carry in their respective regions. All three have salaries from 90 - 100 at the median, but which school would you choose and why?


From what I have gathered, Wake has stronger placement in the Northeast than does Iowa.

LiveFree
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby LiveFree » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:25 pm

Thanks for the advice. I'm not concerned with moving after I graduate. I'm fine with living in or around Iowa (i.e. Minnesota, St. Louis, or Chicago), as well as North Carolina (SC, Georgia, FL, etc).

Agree that Wake has a better name for its region than does Iowa?

LiveFree
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby LiveFree » Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:28 pm

bump +

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kalvano
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby kalvano » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:40 pm

aschleic wrote:Agree that Wake has a better name for its region than does Iowa?



Yes.

Most people know about Wake. People are still surprised to hear that there is a law school in Iowa.

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monkeyboy
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby monkeyboy » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:55 pm

kalvano wrote:
aschleic wrote:Agree that Wake has a better name for its region than does Iowa?



Yes.

Most people know about Wake. People are still surprised to hear that there is a law school in Iowa.


Do Wake Forest grads land jobs on the West Coast? In the Northeast?

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kalvano
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby kalvano » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:58 pm

monkeyboy wrote:
kalvano wrote:
aschleic wrote:Agree that Wake has a better name for its region than does Iowa?



Yes.

Most people know about Wake. People are still surprised to hear that there is a law school in Iowa.


Do Wake Forest grads land jobs on the West Coast? In the Northeast?



A very few seem to land on the West coast. Northeast is much more likely. In doing research on Wake, it seems like a lot of people choose to stay in the NC / mid-Atlantic area, making it hard to determine portability. By that, I mean they voluntarily stay there, not stay because they can't go elsewhere.

I think Wake has good portability for a 40th-ranked school.

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monkeyboy
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby monkeyboy » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:13 pm

kalvano wrote:
monkeyboy wrote:
kalvano wrote:
aschleic wrote:Agree that Wake has a better name for its region than does Iowa?



Yes.

Most people know about Wake. People are still surprised to hear that there is a law school in Iowa.


Do Wake Forest grads land jobs on the West Coast? In the Northeast?



A very few seem to land on the West coast. Northeast is much more likely. In doing research on Wake, it seems like a lot of people choose to stay in the NC / mid-Atlantic area, making it hard to determine portability. By that, I mean they voluntarily stay there, not stay because they can't go elsewhere.

I think Wake has good portability for a 40th-ranked school.


This is kind of what I was thinking. I would imagine that Wake grads could probably land jobs out west, but it's probably true that most just don't have a great deal of interest.

Wake sounds cool. I hope I get in.

OP, how do you feel about Cleveland? I've heard mixed things. According to US News, the Case Western Law degree does travel well. I've heard it's a very good school. Possibly underrated? Kalvano, OP, what do you guys think?

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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby LiveFree » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:49 am

To be honest, I'm trying to get out of the cold weather. I'm sure Clevand does alright for itself both in terms of its legal market and social atmosphere, however. Case has a very strong undergraduate name, which is partly the reason why the degree comes with a decent amount of portability.

If you're going into HealthCare Law, Case is a really great option.

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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby Slimpee » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:00 pm

kalvano wrote:
aschleic wrote:Agree that Wake has a better name for its region than does Iowa?



Yes.

Most people know about Wake. People are still surprised to hear that there is a law school in Iowa.


Post fail. Having grown up in the midwest I can safely say that Iowa's law school has a great reputation in its region. Granted, your average Joe off the street may not know about it but anyone that would matter in a young lawyer's career will...

In fact, a partner at a prominent Minneapolis firm told me once that in Minneapolis Iowa's reputation is very strong, strong enough that in his words, "Minnesota is no. 1 and Iowa is 1 a."

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Cole S. Law
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby Cole S. Law » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:02 pm

Case is a great school to attend for free. Trying to parse out the relative superiority of the schools listed is really splitting hairs. Unless you have a strong preference about where you want to practice, go to school for free.

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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby lawschooliseasy » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:07 pm

Cole S. Law wrote:Case is a great school to attend for free. Trying to parse out the relative superiority of the schools listed is really splitting hairs. Unless you have a strong preference about where you want to practice, go to school for free.


Within major groupings this is true. However, there is an obvious difference in the quality/reputation of Iowa Law and Case.

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Cole S. Law
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby Cole S. Law » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:20 pm

lawschooliseasy wrote:
Cole S. Law wrote:Case is a great school to attend for free. Trying to parse out the relative superiority of the schools listed is really splitting hairs. Unless you have a strong preference about where you want to practice, go to school for free.


Within major groupings this is true. However, there is an obvious difference in the quality/reputation of Iowa Law and Case.


I disagree. You do have the opinion of US News on your side, however.

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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:27 pm

Case Western 2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 36%
Graduates employed in foreign countries 0%
Number of states where graduates are employed 30
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) 4.0%
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 11.1%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 45.2%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 1.0%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 24.6%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 1.5%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 2.5%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 6.1%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 2.0%
Employment location unknown 1.5%

University of Iowa 2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 28%
Graduates employed in foreign countries 2%
Number of states where graduates are employed 30
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) 0.5%
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 4.6%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 21.8%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 48.7%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 10.2%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 0.5%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 2.5%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 4.6%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 5.1%
Employment location unknown 0.0%

Wake Forest 2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 46%
Graduates employed in foreign countries N/A
Number of states where graduates are employed 23
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) 2.1%
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 8.0%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 2.8%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 0.7%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 78.0%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 2.1%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 2.1%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 2.1%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 2.1%
Employment location unknown N/A

Looking at the data, I would say Case seems to be the most desirable choice here.

Wake has about 46% instate with another 32% in the same region.
Iowa has about 28% instate with another ~21% in a not-so-sought-after region (aside from MN).
Case has about 36% instate with another ~20 in in a desirable region. However Case also places about 25% in Wake's region as well. Neither Wake nor Iowa have a similar placement elsewhere. In fact, arguably Iowa only places 21% in the Chicago region.

Don't listen to anyone who says Iowa is the best choice. There is no data to support that conclusion aside from US News which, as well all know, is not useful in ranking public schools (i.e. most "university of...." public schools have similar placements - they are top notch in their states with a strong reputation in the bordering states [there are like 4 exceptions to this]).

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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby lawschooliseasy » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:33 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Case Western 2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 36%
Graduates employed in foreign countries 0%
Number of states where graduates are employed 30
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) 4.0%
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 11.1%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 45.2%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 1.0%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 24.6%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 1.5%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 2.5%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 6.1%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 2.0%
Employment location unknown 1.5%

University of Iowa 2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 28%
Graduates employed in foreign countries 2%
Number of states where graduates are employed 30
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) 0.5%
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 4.6%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 21.8%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 48.7%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 10.2%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 0.5%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 2.5%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 4.6%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 5.1%
Employment location unknown 0.0%

Wake Forest 2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 46%
Graduates employed in foreign countries N/A
Number of states where graduates are employed 23
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) 2.1%
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 8.0%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 2.8%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 0.7%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 78.0%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 2.1%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 2.1%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 2.1%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 2.1%
Employment location unknown N/A

Looking at the data, I would say Case seems to be the most desirable choice here.

Wake has about 46% instate with another 32% in the same region.
Iowa has about 28% instate with another ~21% in a not-so-sought-after region (aside from MN).
Case has about 36% instate with another ~20 in in a desirable region. However Case also places about 25% in Wake's region as well. Neither Wake nor Iowa have a similar placement elsewhere. In fact, arguably Iowa only places 21% in the Chicago region.

Don't listen to anyone who says Iowa is the best choice. There is no data to support that conclusion aside from US News which, as well all know, is not useful in ranking public schools (i.e. most "university of...." public schools have similar placements - they are top notch in their states with a strong reputation in the bordering states [there are like 4 exceptions to this]).


Of course all of this is meaningless if everyone from Case is doing doc review. However, a quick look at the links below would lead me to believe that the difference between the two schools is not as large as I originally thought.

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/composite.pdf
http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/20080414 ... trends.pdf

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kalvano
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby kalvano » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:26 pm

Slimpee wrote:
kalvano wrote:
aschleic wrote:Agree that Wake has a better name for its region than does Iowa?



Yes.

Most people know about Wake. People are still surprised to hear that there is a law school in Iowa.


Post fail. Having grown up in the midwest I can safely say that Iowa's law school has a great reputation in its region. Granted, your average Joe off the street may not know about it but anyone that would matter in a young lawyer's career will...

In fact, a partner at a prominent Minneapolis firm told me once that in Minneapolis Iowa's reputation is very strong, strong enough that in his words, "Minnesota is no. 1 and Iowa is 1 a."



RC fail.

I was not referring to regional rep.

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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby Slimpee » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:09 pm

kalvano wrote:
Slimpee wrote:
kalvano wrote:
aschleic wrote:Agree that Wake has a better name for its region than does Iowa?



Yes.

Most people know about Wake. People are still surprised to hear that there is a law school in Iowa.


Post fail. Having grown up in the midwest I can safely say that Iowa's law school has a great reputation in its region. Granted, your average Joe off the street may not know about it but anyone that would matter in a young lawyer's career will...

In fact, a partner at a prominent Minneapolis firm told me once that in Minneapolis Iowa's reputation is very strong, strong enough that in his words, "Minnesota is no. 1 and Iowa is 1 a."



RC fail.

I was not referring to regional rep.


Umm, the post to which you were answering asks for a comparison between Wake's and Iowa's regional rep so unless you're answering a question that was not asked you were in fact referring to regional rep.

(sorry for any snarkiness...bad day at work)

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monkeyboy
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby monkeyboy » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:26 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Case Western 2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 36%
Graduates employed in foreign countries 0%
Number of states where graduates are employed 30
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) 4.0%
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 11.1%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 45.2%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 1.0%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 24.6%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 1.5%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 2.5%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 6.1%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 2.0%
Employment location unknown 1.5%

University of Iowa 2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 28%
Graduates employed in foreign countries 2%
Number of states where graduates are employed 30
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) 0.5%
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 4.6%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 21.8%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 48.7%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 10.2%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 0.5%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 2.5%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 4.6%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 5.1%
Employment location unknown 0.0%

Wake Forest 2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 46%
Graduates employed in foreign countries N/A
Number of states where graduates are employed 23
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) 2.1%
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 8.0%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 2.8%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 0.7%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 78.0%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 2.1%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 2.1%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 2.1%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 2.1%
Employment location unknown N/A

Looking at the data, I would say Case seems to be the most desirable choice here.

Wake has about 46% instate with another 32% in the same region.
Iowa has about 28% instate with another ~21% in a not-so-sought-after region (aside from MN).
Case has about 36% instate with another ~20 in in a desirable region. However Case also places about 25% in Wake's region as well. Neither Wake nor Iowa have a similar placement elsewhere. In fact, arguably Iowa only places 21% in the Chicago region.

Don't listen to anyone who says Iowa is the best choice. There is no data to support that conclusion aside from US News which, as well all know, is not useful in ranking public schools (i.e. most "university of...." public schools have similar placements - they are top notch in their states with a strong reputation in the bordering states [there are like 4 exceptions to this]).


Yeah, and Case places well in the Pacific region, apparently.

Case and Cincinnati are ranked similarly, yet the Case name seems to travel far and wide while Cincinnati appears to be more regional in terms of placement. The Case degree seems to travel at least as well as both Iowa and Wake Forest. I think Case might be a bit of a sleeper.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Wake v. Iowa v. Case ($$) - set me straight

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:34 pm

Just go to the region you want to work in. If none of them are in a region you want to work in, reapply next year.




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